A Message From Shore to Ship

A place for anything that doesn't fit into the existing forums
jugu
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by jugu » Sun May 03, 2009 11:00 pm

Robbrent wrote:I would have thought with practise you can change you state to being mostly out of the now, and the world of thought pretty much the same as most people lean to be in the now
Let it be clear that what we're really talking about is truth, not nirvana, not "presence" nor the now. It's all about truth, and once you learn the truth you can't begin to lie to yourself once again.

Tony-S-Ma
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Sun May 03, 2009 11:13 pm

jugu wrote:
randomguy wrote:In my opinion, the disturbance described in the OP is primarily an issue of attitude.
Wrong. Given the fact that I was suckered into this misleading pack of lies, non-duality, giving my whole self to it in hope of getting something better in return only to be left with absolutely nothing, I'd say my attitude is pretty godamned peachy.

Pretend for a second... your 19. Have tons of energy, passion, motivation, grand ambition. You want to change the world. You find this philosophy that promises that you'll find what you've always been looking for, and it's so simple. So you say fuck it. Fuck what your parents say, fuck your friends, fuck school, fuck plans, fuck relationships, I'm going for whats real, I want the real thing. You do just that. You go, all on your own, knee deep in the shit, down in the dark looking for "it". Then finally, some really clever bastard tells you where it is. It was so simple, you knew the whole time, and it wasn't what you were looking for.

Adya say's it's "the end of your world". The-End-of-Your-World. It's that simple. No more, it's the end.

I don't know how I've made it this long, going to work, hanging out with friends, living with my family, doing things normally. All things considered, I think my attitude has been phenomenal. I've really shown true strength to myself. But you know, it makes you so impersonal, a bit like a monster. It's hard to live with, thats for sure. I've been literally considering suicide for about 7 months now... I'm 19 for chrissake!
At this point, one realizes that oneself is powerless. Only "hope" is left in the Pandora's box. Only thing I can realistically offer is that I have been into the similar situations, and that I endured until "hope" attracted some miracles

Since you are 19, you probably have not learned what it means by being patient for 2 years.

randomguy
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by randomguy » Sun May 03, 2009 11:56 pm

jugu wrote:
randomguy wrote:In my opinion, the disturbance described in the OP is primarily an issue of attitude.
Wrong. Given the fact that I was suckered into this misleading pack of lies, non-duality, giving my whole self to it in hope of getting something better in return only to be left with absolutely nothing, I'd say my attitude is pretty godamned peachy.

Pretend for a second... your 19. Have tons of energy, passion, motivation, grand ambition. You want to change the world. You find this philosophy that promises that you'll find what you've always been looking for, and it's so simple. So you say fuck it. Fuck what your parents say, fuck your friends, fuck school, fuck plans, fuck relationships, I'm going for whats real, I want the real thing. You do just that. You go, all on your own, knee deep in the shit, down in the dark looking for "it". Then finally, some really clever bastard tells you where it is. It was so simple, you knew the whole time, and it wasn't what you were looking for.

Adya say's it's "the end of your world". The-End-of-Your-World. It's that simple. No more, it's the end.

I don't know how I've made it this long, going to work, hanging out with friends, living with my family, doing things normally. All things considered, I think my attitude has been phenomenal. I've really shown true strength to myself. But you know, it makes you so impersonal, a bit like a monster. It's hard to live with, thats for sure. I've been literally considering suicide for about 7 months now... I'm 19 for chrissake!
Hey jugo, I wish you well. My first reaction is to type some more non-dual stuff, so I'll try to refrain from doing so. "Trust me" based upon what I've read of your posts, your egoic mind is actively working to preserve your sanity right now. It is alive and well my friend. And from what I gather, your mind works very well. My guess is that you might be experiencing something similar to what I experienced when I was young. Transitioning from what I thought was true to what I came to realize was more true often shocked the crap out of me. More than once I experienced a sense of drifting through an unreal, meaningless world. I also became enchanted by the idea of the easy suicide exit door. My lame advice is this: Focus on the ways that you are OK. Focus on simple pleasures. It is only perspective that has shifted.

I still agree with my statement though. What you have described above is very much a victim attitude. Has life truly given you something you can't handle? If so, you may want to consider getting professional help.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

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Onceler
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by Onceler » Mon May 04, 2009 12:03 am

If you are considering suicide and are so upset with life, get help now. You mentioned a therapist. Get evaluated for depression. Forget non-dual teaching, it is not worth it right now.

Take care of yourself.
Be present, be pleasant.

lucy
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by lucy » Mon May 04, 2009 3:25 am

Jugu

Thank you for your very honest sharing, and I agree with you, there is absolutely nothing to be gained for the individual.

jugu
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by jugu » Mon May 04, 2009 3:49 am

Onceler wrote:If you are considering suicide and are so upset with life, get help now. You mentioned a therapist. Get evaluated for depression. Forget non-dual teaching, it is not worth it right now.
Hey man, thanks for the concern but It's really not like that. Therapists are for people who have problems, and I've "transcended" most human problems. I'm actually seeing a therapist right now and it's just a big waste of time. I don't mean to sound too dramatic by dropping the "S" bomb, but I'm really just trying to illustrate how serious this stuff actually is. It's not a game, this is real life.

jugu
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by jugu » Mon May 04, 2009 3:54 am

randomguy wrote:I still agree with my statement though. What you have described above is very much a victim attitude.
Yeah, I do feel like I got duped a little. But the people who helped me get here didn't have any wrong intentions, they just were seriously misled and had no idea what they were talking about.

My posts here are really just an effort to convince some lucky few that this path dosn't have to be taken now, that it's not what they've been taught it is, that it's all bull, and that living an egoic life is perfectly fine, if not preferable.

karmarider
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by karmarider » Mon May 04, 2009 6:19 am

My experience has been very different from Jugu's. There have periods of detachment and apathy and confusion, certainly, but overall presence and releasing has been a much better way to live than living in the world of fear and sadness.

Having said that, I acknowledge that Jugu makes some excellent and valid points. Tolle, and many others, point out the trap of creating concepts around awakening. And yet, this is the first obstacle we create for ourselves: we analyze consciousness, divide it up into mind, ego and other stuff, and talk with authority about what all this means, and talk about oneness and universal intelligence and other impressive concepts, and we put "I" in quotations, and talk about a separate individual and so on. All of this is the very obstacle to experiencing presence.

There is no reason to believe that presence will lead to anything other than presence.

"The present moment has always been available to spiritual seekers, but as long as you are seeking you are not available to the present moment. "Seeking" implies that you are looking to the future for some answer, or for some achievement, spiritual or otherwise. Everybody is in the seeking mode, seeking to add something to who they are, whether it be money, relationships, possessions, knowledge, status.. or spiritual attainment." Eckhart Tolle.

Plorel
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by Plorel » Mon May 04, 2009 11:30 am

Hey jugu
My posts here are really just an effort to convince some lucky few that this path dosn't have to be taken now, that it's not what they've been taught it is, that it's all bull, and that living an egoic life is perfectly fine, if not preferable.
Hey jugu. I am about your age and I am sharing with you those energy, passion and motivation. But I disagree that the spiritual pass in a one way trap, a road to lose everything, something that benefints "you" only if followed to its end by taking anything you thought you had.

For me matters are rather simple. I am enjoying life at the moment and if I get stressed or negativ, I bring awareness to the present moment or question the stressfull thougths. Seriously, it doesnt get more complicated, does it? I mean, why would I question all those fantastic believes which bring me joy and passion and love? They work for me.
If a time comes where I feel the need to go even further, to question anything, to leave the world behind as I know it, its fine. But until then, why would I care?
What could keep me from living a unique and wonderful life until then? That is what spirituality means to me at the moment!

Wishing you all the best
stefan
Who am I without my story?

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Marcel Franke
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by Marcel Franke » Mon May 04, 2009 2:51 pm

Dear Jugu,

Please forgive me, but I do not understand.
That is, I do not understand what the exact problem is.
Can you explain what is the central problem, or the biggest,
in your eyes, in your experience ?

Regards,

Marcel.
---ooOoo---

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Sighclone
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by Sighclone » Mon May 04, 2009 5:25 pm

Interesting perspective, jugu. Maybe the ego needs to be the boss until we are about 30. Too bad you marched ahead of your natural flow. But I thought that the fundamental definition of enlightenment was "the end of suffering." That's from the guy who recorded it first...Buddha. But maybe interrupting the ego-control too early is dangerous. I can't know, because I'm 62 and my old ego is pretty boring. And you can't know the opposite, which is to say, if you are enlightened, you can't know what it would be like to awaken when you are over 30. Then, maybe, if you manage to survive until then, suffering will disappear for you.

Adya and others talk about a period of adjustment after enlightenment in which a lot of psychological things work themselves out - so does Ken Wilber.

But thanks for the interesting warning.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

karmarider
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by karmarider » Mon May 04, 2009 6:07 pm

Sighclone wrote:Interesting perspective, jugu. Maybe the ego needs to be the boss until we are about 30....
Interesting perspective. Ramana Mahirishi, if I'm remembering correctly, was enlightened at 16. But he didn't try to re-integrate with society.

Yes, most of the awakened I've read about talk about a period of adjustment and re-integration.

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mistral
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by mistral » Mon May 04, 2009 6:41 pm

If you have not found that Inner Core of Light, The Child Within, The One that allows you to see the Beauty in All Things, the Holiness in All That Is, then I say you have missed the boat entirely. Its fairly clear that you are still standing on shore and the ship is moving along without you. Get on board little children, get on board, there's room for plenty of more!

Find the Child Heart within you. Find your True Self because there is One, you know. Now, I know full well that "non-duality" lessons tell us nothing of This Inner Guide and Inner Selfhood. I can tell all kinds of reasons why, but not here.

Know this; There is a True Self and your mission is to find It, and Live It right here in the world and then to Give Back to Your World all That you have discovered for Your Self. There is important work to be done. You do have a reason for being. The wonderful gentle Lights of this World are all doing their part now, in ways you may not be aware of...The folks that keep this Eckart forum going, they have found The Child Light and they are doing what they feel moved to do for their 'others'. The Child is The Balance between Heaven (Realtity) and Earth ( appearances) and It is The All Inclusive View that SEES Both sides now. We have work to do, once we find This Living Presence and Inner Light that Guides Us Now. The Discovery of The Living Truth is not the end of Life, but the very edge of a New Beginning, and The Journey Continues. If you have not found the relationship between yourself inside and the appearances outside ( and in increasing detail) than you have not found anything Real or Substantial ..You have not found The Everlasting One that you are One with. If you have no idea of your interrelatedness between Who You Are and the World around you, then it is no wonder that your feel so lost and fearful. You will find the Light is Within You and This Light is to be shared in any way you are given to share It, most especially Now in these late days. We Find the Inner Child, The Subjective Self and That Divine Intelligence will know how to live in 'the world' and exactly what needs to be done. The Child is full of Trust in Its own Power and Authority and It knows what is real and what is not. If you have not found the consciousness of Child you then of course you will not know which sense to believe nor who in the world is telling truth.

Also; The Genuine Self will reflect the qualities and attributes of Something Greater---Godhead. You will feel free and yet full and rich and whole and complete (not empty and despondant)

Want to know more about Your True Selfhood? if you really want to make the journey of Self-Disovery I recommend that you read this marvelous masterpiece of a book titled "The Child Within Us Lives! A Synthesis of Science, Religion, and Metaphysics" by William Samuel. It is a must, especially when you hit this empty place, such as you have come to, along the Path.


The following is a short excerpt from a personal letter to me, written many years ago, from William Samuel ( He later put this letter in his book "The Child Within", you can read all of it there):

"You have come alive in It because It is alive in You. I am full of delight because of your Self-discovery and I love you very much--but don't give me credit that is due yourSelf and God. It is a marvel of marvels, isn't It? I suspect you will have the joy of being Its minister to many. With IT you can do anything good that is given to you to do for It. Watch and see! It gets better and closer and more wonderful yet. It doesn’t diminish! I thank you for your honest trust. What is Grace? YOU are.”

http://www.williamsamuel.com/11-1-07-Co ... 0Child.htm

So, kiddo, pick your scepter and take your Power, find your Divine Inheritance and then Do Something With It, the world needs the Light YOU Are…Its still in there, a small flame in the center of your Heart, in the gut of being, you can find It and when you do, you will Live It doing good and tender, real and wonderful things for your world in ways you could not have even imagined.

You are the world you walk through. Inside always reflects the outside. Find the Inner Child, The Light within You and look out and see the Light Everywhere you Are.

:D http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Hill ... nboard.htm :D

Joy to you, Mistral
http://www.williamsamuel.com/11-05-08-c ... mirror.htm

goman87
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by goman87 » Mon May 04, 2009 11:02 pm

Hello jugu!
I think your path to enlightenment has taken a turn for the worst! Not to put it harshly. You're still on it as we speak :)
Could I recommend you remember a time you were really good. Where is that being now? By doing this you're remembering the part of yourself you may be losing touch with. :D

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Sighclone
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Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by Sighclone » Tue May 05, 2009 6:23 am

jugu -

If you sat down with an enlightened master for a week, and left realizing you were not enlightened, would not that be a great moment for you...then you could believe that some magical moment was still out there - and that whatever you have now is short of the mark. Or then, cosmic modesty might settle in and you would have a feeling or two. A feeling, that is, beyond whatever deep grief and anger you express all over this thread...

Namaste,
Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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