A Message From Shore to Ship

A place for anything that doesn't fit into the existing forums
Tony-S-Ma
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Sun May 17, 2009 8:43 pm

Dear Mistral of words,

You are singing to my heart.

Some terms it on a scale of consciousness. There is no top, but a bottom to the scale. The bottom is eternally choosing to be separated from Life, God. With logic and reason, there should not be a bottom when there is no top; however, logic and reason do not always work.

Tony

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mistral
Posts: 330
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:58 pm

Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by mistral » Sun May 17, 2009 9:19 pm

Very nice Tony, you say it well, perhaps better, in a few perfectly good words.

Thanks, Mistral

lucy
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:09 pm

Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by lucy » Mon May 18, 2009 3:52 am

Tony-S-Ma wrote:Dear Mistral of words,

You are singing to my heart.
It is nice to find people that we agree with, but its the one's that we don't agree with that can teach us the most.

Tony-S-Ma
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Mon May 18, 2009 10:55 am


It is nice to find people that we agree with, but its the one's that we don't agree with that can teach us the most.
This does not necessarily work all the time. I do not agree with terrorists, neither can I learn much from them.

However, I do agree that when some disagreement keeps occupy my attention, I will check what I can learn from it. Recent disagreement with WW has taught me something. Incidentally, It is not common for me to agree in this forum. Only about 3 or 4 times out over 250 I agreed. I do not agree with people, I only agree with what are being posted. I was slightly irritated by Mistral's posting about William Samual at first. I went on to the web-site and checked it out. I was not impressed. But I am more impressed by Mistral's own expressions of Truth. To me, he expressed much better than William Samual. Part of the reason may be William is not longer here, and Mistral is here and alive.

Tara
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:15 pm

Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by Tara » Mon May 18, 2009 4:06 pm

Tony-S-Ma wrote:

This does not necessarily work all the time. I do not agree with terrorists, neither can I learn much from them.
I may be way off here but when I read this line my first "thought" was..Is that true? (Byron Katie work) Are you separating yourself from terrorists? They are bad, they are there, they are evil, they are not normal etc?

Maybe you have interacted with someone who was a terrorist or has become one and at the time you didn't "know" or label them..they simply were another beeing you were connecting with. What is a terrorist? Isn't it just a word/label? Something we can separate ourselves from to feel better about ourselves because we don't "do" what they do?

Isn't the whole of presence to accept what is, who is and we never know what we may learn from someone or some situation.

When ever I try to share anything with family they immediately say excuses, that is your life, your desires, not mine, I am not interested...etc. It seems they automatically put up a defense like it is going to hurt them to hear me or check out what I am saying...and yes I see that in myself too and am NOW trying to say yes and be open to others and their words...it doesn't mean I "agree" or "disagree" but maybe I can accept and let them be and I just be and just maybe that "terrorist" is just another me believing his thoughts...not a label but a human being like me on a different path...

Tony-S-Ma
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Mon May 18, 2009 5:48 pm

Before studying Zen, a mountain is a mountain.
While studying Zen, the mountain is not a mountain.
After studying Zen, the mountain is still a mountain.

lucy
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:09 pm

Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by lucy » Wed May 20, 2009 8:34 pm

Tara wrote:I may be way off here but when I read this line my first "thought" was..Is that true? (Byron Katie work) Are you separating yourself from terrorists? They are bad, they are there, they are evil, they are not normal etc?

Maybe you have interacted with someone who was a terrorist or has become one and at the time you didn't "know" or label them..they simply were another beeing you were connecting with. What is a terrorist? Isn't it just a word/label? Something we can separate ourselves from to feel better about ourselves because we don't "do" what they do?

Isn't the whole of presence to accept what is, who is and we never know what we may learn from someone or some situation.

When ever I try to share anything with family they immediately say excuses, that is your life, your desires, not mine, I am not interested...etc. It seems they automatically put up a defense like it is going to hurt them to hear me or check out what I am saying...and yes I see that in myself too and am NOW trying to say yes and be open to others and their words...it doesn't mean I "agree" or "disagree" but maybe I can accept and let them be and I just be and just maybe that "terrorist" is just another me believing his thoughts...not a label but a human being like me on a different path...
Hi Tara,
No you are not way off here. That is exactly what I meant. Tony missed it, as he often does because his mind is very busy.

Tony-S-Ma
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: A Message From Shore to Ship

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Thu May 21, 2009 12:14 am

No you are not way off here. That is exactly what I meant. Tony missed it, as he often does because his mind is very busy
Perhaps, we misunderstand each other.

There is no persons for me to disagree with because an individual consists of many beliefs, understandings and experiences. I can only disagree with particular beliefs and understandings.

Certainly I can not reject a person totally just because I disagree with some of his beliefs and understandings.

To me there is no such person that I can disagree with the most. To me everybody is unique.

In the department of intellectual debate, we disagree and argue over ideas, not over the persons. Terrorists not only disagree with this understanding/belief, but also act out their belief/understanding by organically effecting those who they disagree with. That is the belief/understanding/action I can never agree with nor learn from.

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