Relating with Others

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sevenworlds
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by sevenworlds » Wed May 27, 2009 6:55 pm

It's fine by me what mistral has said. He/she has every right to express their opinion within the rules set here.

Any claims of enlightenment are totally from the readers' perspective. That word is meaningless to me. I can say what I say because I know if there are others here who are functioning the same way, they won't listen to me. That same authority will express in its own way through them. These words can only upset and antagonise those who are still clutching onto something false.
Marcel Franke wrote:7Worlds:
> You have to reject it all and listen to yourself.

That could be.... a doctrine ?
Can it be a doctrine if it includes rejecting everything I say, including that statement? Where does that leave you then?

lucy
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by lucy » Wed May 27, 2009 7:05 pm

7Worlds,
Would you say that your actions are based on an impulse rather than thought? For example, you come to a fork in a road, you have an impulse to take the longer route, but you are running late for an appointment, you decide to take the longer route because you are honouring an impulse that arises as opposed to what your mind thinks you should do?

Juniper22
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by Juniper22 » Wed May 27, 2009 7:54 pm

mistral wrote: Juniper, Mr. Sevens does indeed claim 'awakening' in most of his posts.
I have yet to read a post on this forum (or on D.I) where Sevenworlds claims to be an enlightened/awakened man. Anyone who claims enlightenment does not truely understand what the term means. From what I`ve read of his posts, he quite clearly points beyond mind. Call it what you like - awakening, enlightenment, nirvana etc.
In the beginning of this thread he tells us something about how this awakened state of being and lack of ego has put him in a scary place where he has no idea what will come out of his mouth, and that being the case, he is no longer in control of what he says
"He" is no longer in control because there`s nothing there (and yet everything is there)... do you see? You`re having an argument with an illusory ego which no longer exists. For all intents and purposes, you risk suspension/receiving a ban because you`re fighting with yourself....Is it worth it Mistral? :)
"Don`t think of goodness; don`t think of evil; at this instant, what is your original face?" Hui Neng

sevenworlds
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by sevenworlds » Thu May 28, 2009 1:58 am

lucy wrote:7Worlds,
Would you say that your actions are based on an impulse rather than thought? For example, you come to a fork in a road, you have an impulse to take the longer route, but you are running late for an appointment, you decide to take the longer route because you are honouring an impulse that arises as opposed to what your mind thinks you should do?
I'm not sure I'd use the word "impulse" because it has connotations, as if it's a rash decision. It's a feeling as if the energy of life - whatever that is - is guiding or urging but not that it's a separate entity. It can happen in different ways depending on the situation. Sometimes it is clear in advance, like with moving flat. It comes up as an insight/thought (I don't really know), you know its going to happen but you don't know how, and so then you forget about it and leave life to sort out the details. So then when the time comes it is quite clear. Although anything can change it at any moment. Mostly you just DO completely spontaneously in the moment. The action is so at one that you don't even know you have done anything. It's only later you can see the synchronicity of it. Now and again there may even seem to be indecision, as if you have to watch the body delaying over something. The seeming indecision is not treated any different because you aren't labelling it, but from the point of view of an onlooker, it might look like your hesitating. In your example I would have to follow through on the long route.

A good place to see this in action is in conversation. So much of our conversation is conditioned, a total waste of energy. All the pointless niceties, "hi, how are you? blah blah blah...". That can be difficult to overcome because we want to be polite and liked by others. There's many who envision the 'enlightened state' as being full of love and compassion, as if you'll be so outwardly warm and friendly to all. I'm keen to point out that is false. People get this idea that everyone will want to be around you but it's not the case. There are many times when that urge will not want to say anything. For a long time I found phone calls to family and others difficult because it seemed too forced to go through all the pleasantries and talk about rubbish. I just couldn't do it anymore. That makes some people feel very uncomfortable when you are with them and hardly say a word or don't give the reactions they expect. Someone got annoyed because I hadn't congratulated them on their wedding. I don't celebrate Christmas or birthdays anymore. It's not that I'm against them but they just don't mean anything to me anymore. I'll still take part if I'm asked and feel like it but you won't catch me getting into the festive spirit because I can't relate to it. Most people around you, and especially those who know you well, will not understand all of this. They think they know you and so its in their interests to keep you as you are. If you start following that spontaneous inner drive it will threaten their identity. If you stop celebrating Christmas and explain why, they don't want to hear it because they might just see what an insane event it actually is. You have to have the strength and courage to stand firm to what your own self is telling you even when those around give you crap for it. For most of my 20s I felt in despair because I seemed to be isolating myself. I felt like it was happening out of my control but now it makes perfect sense. I now only have a handful of people I deal with regularly and they are very understanding. The rest of them weren't meant to come along for the ride and so life removed them one way or another. It created space I needed to listen to this and be myself, and so now, I know those who end up around me will take me as I am or move on.

It's like when I post here. You may get the impression I have a lot to say and I'm like this all the time but we are here to discuss this. It's like it fires into life whenever this is the topic of conversation while the rest of the time it's bear minimum of conversation to get by. Not always. I have to listen to that same pulse of life wherever and whatever. Whereas others may deliberately limit their posts because they don't want to offend others or be taking over, I can't put those boundaries down. I might post 5 times a day for weeks and then you may not hear from me for months. I never know. If I read a post, and something is there, ready to come out, I have to follow through. I can't say to myself "no, I better wait a few days because I've already posted too much". Who would be applying that as a rule? This happens with food also. I might go 3 months where the body is craving sweet things. The thought might come "this is unhealthy", but I must listen to the body. So you surrender to it and follow it through whole-heartedly. Then it might suddenly change to lots of dairy stuff and completely not interested in sugary foods. You can't do that if you're listening to what all the 'experts' are telling you. I pretty much eat the same thing for my tea (dinner) every night. Some would wonder how I could do that at first because their mind craves varieties of taste. It seems fresh to me every time. I used to eat meat regularly but hardly ever now. It's not that I'm a vegetarian but I just know the body doesn't want it. Now and again I might. I would much rather be writing music and expressing what I need to express through music but for some reason I find this is the main form of expression right now. The aches, pains and movements in the body make it difficult to do music whereas typing words is one thing I can do so maybe that's why. I don't know.

Sorry this is so long, I have to say it like this. Some of you might be interested in watching these two videos of Mooji I came across the other day. The first clip relates to what I've just written and the other is a longer interview and although it's not the same I can recognise many of Mooji's experiences:

Don't Disturb Your Natural Silence - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AZhvAAvk4U

Concious TV interview - http://conscious.tv/consciousness.html? ... 2541431001

lucy
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by lucy » Thu May 28, 2009 2:26 am

7 Worlds,
Thank you for taking the time to share.
sevenworlds wrote:There's many who envision the 'enlightened state' as being full of love and compassion, as if you'll be so outwardly warm and friendly to all. I'm keen to point out that is false. People get this idea that everyone will want to be around you but it's not the case.
Most people who appear to me as moving from that place of Oneness are full of love and compassion because they know themselves to be everything. When I read your posts I resonate with a lot of what you say but I feel a deep sense of separation. This could be saying more about me than you, but something brought you here.

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Marcel Franke
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by Marcel Franke » Thu May 28, 2009 8:09 am

7:
>>> You have to reject it all and listen to yourself.

MF:
>> That could be.... a doctrine ?

7:
> Can it be a doctrine if it includes rejecting everything I say, including that statement? Where does that leave you then?


Nowhere. Thank you !
---ooOoo---

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Marcel Franke
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by Marcel Franke » Thu May 28, 2009 11:20 am

7:
> There's many who envision the 'enlightened state' as being full of love and compassion,
> as if you'll be so outwardly warm and friendly to all.
> I'm keen to point out that is false.

Okay, but what if we take the first line from the 3 above,
replace the comma at the end with a period,
replace all the characters of the second line with spaces,
then what about the third line ?
---ooOoo---

sevenworlds
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by sevenworlds » Thu May 28, 2009 1:44 pm

Lucy, the sense of separation is yours. As long as you look at the surface for answers, at what I say and what I do, you will be inwardly disappointed and frightened because if it doesn't match up to your idea of oneness you'll naturally want to reject it. The human mind being what it is, gravitates towards things that make it feel safe and comfortable, things that sustain it. It is only through that mind the teachings of various teachers have survived and so naturally, this distorted picture of love and compassion is going to be what is remembered. It's the same mentality that loves a happy ending in a movie.

It's so funny because what I hear here is so often the same kind of responses UG used to get on the radio phone-ins he took part in. I remember this one Australian woman calling in and claiming UG sounded depressed and that maybe he never got enough love as a child. Everyone has so many theories they like to stick over you, anything to stop them facing up to themselves.

Tony-S-Ma
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Thu May 28, 2009 3:13 pm

The one,who can not think well can only think in circular fashion like a broken record, or repeating the same mantra over and over. Because it is simple and not much energy is needed, a lot less personal suffering will occur. Thinking can be learned, trained, and experienced. It is impersonal. No idea belongs to an individual; however, the memory bank of ideas is unique to each person.

The one who can not feel well can only feel in polarity like black and white, or positive and negative only. Because it is hard for one to endure if one's capacity for charge is greatly increased, one rather has quick discharge of emotions all the time. Feeling can be learned, trained, and experienced. It is unique to each person. i.e. each person has an unique feeling capacity no matter how developed or underdeveloped one is.

The one who can not sense well misses the richness of Life. Sensing is spontaneous, not learned and can be trained and experienced. Each person has unique sensing ability no matter how well trained or untrained one is.

The one who can not intuit well does not quit know himself. Knowing is intuitive, not learned nor trained can be experienced. Intuiting comes forth more strongly when ones' sensing ability increases,and/or feeling capacity grows and/or thinking bank enlarges.

So individuality is marked by sensing ability, feeling capacity and thinking bank.

For those who love to get rid of their egos, please kill your sensing ability, and feeling capacity as well because individuality exists there also. After that, you will be left with Intuiting alone which is ALL or EMPTINESS, the real no self you are after. :lol:

Vegetating may still the mind and stone the heart, yet the sensing remains. :twisted:

Foolishly Tony

sevenworlds
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by sevenworlds » Thu May 28, 2009 5:13 pm

Marcel Franke wrote:7:
> There's many who envision the 'enlightened state' as being full of love and compassion,
> as if you'll be so outwardly warm and friendly to all.
> I'm keen to point out that is false.

Okay, but what if we take the first line from the 3 above,
replace the comma at the end with a period,
replace all the characters of the second line with spaces,
then what about the third line ?
Do you know what love and compassion is? I want to know what this 'love and compassion' is. Why are you so keen to hang onto it? That's what I'm questioning.

lucy
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by lucy » Thu May 28, 2009 5:49 pm

sevenworlds wrote:Do you know what love and compassion is? I want to know what this 'love and compassion' is. Why are you so keen to hang onto it? That's what I'm questioning.
That is a very good question 7worlds, and I am glad you asked it. To me love and compassion is the experience of the "other" deep inside ourselves. Copassion is an energy that is proof of our Oneness. It is the ability to lay the ego aside and be touched by the pain or exhultation of what we consider others. It is more than a concept or a mental thing. It is an actual energetic charge that is felt that leaves no room to question that we are indeed connected and One on a deeper level.

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Marcel Franke
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by Marcel Franke » Thu May 28, 2009 6:34 pm

7:
> Do you know what love and compassion is?
> I want to know what this 'love and compassion' is.

I'm not sure if I know love.
I think I know kindness, friendliness.
I like kindness, for it works both ways, so to speak.
It involves little or no effort.
Maybe my kindness is a little love that manages to come out ?

7:
> Why are you so keen to hang onto it? That's what I'm questioning.

I didnt notice that I was that keen.
But perhaps youre right.

Maybe what I feel is simply emotion.
I dont know.

I love to cuddle with cats.
Hold the hand of me missus.
I love to let my little niece and nephew have their way,
pulling my goatee, going bonkers, laughing.
When there is a silverfish in the sink, I let it escape with a piece of paper.
Stuff like that.

But I dont know if love is involved in any of this,
or just some sentimental romantic feeling,
or both.
After all, I am a sucker for Christmas and happy endings.

And you Seven, do you know love ?

Kindness,

MF.
---ooOoo---

sevenworlds
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by sevenworlds » Thu May 28, 2009 6:55 pm

Other than a 4 letter word, I don't know what love is. That is why I'm curious why so many people seem to want to uphold and defend it.

I would also question kindness and friendliness. If I can say I have acted out of kindness that means I am aware I'm doing something special, that I am somehow separating it from my other actions as if it's something I should be pleased about. Friendliness means I want to be-friend someone. I want someone to like me and will adjust my behaviour accordingly. Is that not selfish when honestly examined? The animals are real. I used to have a cat. He would come when he wanted something - food or attention - and then make no bones about walking off when it suited. That is realness. In fact, I realised recently how similar I am in that sense because he would often come and beg for food while I was eating, I'd push him away, he'd come back and this could go on until I got angry and locked him out the room. That is how I function now. I have no control over my actions (yet I'm not uncontrollable) and so that's why I seriously say to make sure I don't come back here I'd need to be banned. :)

lucy
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by lucy » Thu May 28, 2009 7:09 pm

sevenworlds wrote:Other than a 4 letter word, I don't know what love is. That is why I'm curious why so many people seem to want to uphold and defend it.
I think that about says it all (No judgement intended), but if you ever been touched deeply be love, you would know it. Rumi says best below:


The minute I heard my first love story,

I started looking for you, not knowing

how blind that was.



Lovers don't finally meet somewhere,

they're in each other all along.

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Marcel Franke
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Re: Relating with Others

Post by Marcel Franke » Thu May 28, 2009 7:17 pm

7:
> Other than a 4 letter word, I don't know what love is.

Or you are a compassionate liar.

7:
>If I can say I have acted out of kindness that means I am aware I'm doing something special, that I am somehow
>separating it from my other actions as if it's something I should be pleased about.
>Friendliness means I want to be-friend someone.
>I want someone to like me and will adjust my behaviour accordingly. Is that not selfish when honestly examined?

Yes, it is all selfish, but how can I change that ? I don-t even want to. Why should I ?
If I help someone, or an animal, the reward is immediate.
I feel good.
Maybe thats DNA, I dont know. Call it interconnectedness.
But I-m not talking about politics. Fuck that.

> and so that's why I seriously say to make sure I don't come back here I'd need to be banned

Sorry, I don-t get that one.
Would you mind rephrasing that ?

Cheers,
MF.
---ooOoo---

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