Relating with Others

[Tony-S-Ma]

Lovers don't finally meet somewhere,

they're in each other all along.

We fight it out here under the disguise of ET fan club. At the high noon, there is no shadow, and the loved one states "I am all alone". Somehow, the loved one is stuck in the memory of the high noon, but the lover has casted a very long long long shadow that every objective observation from anytime angle reveals excepting in the memory of high noon.

Busily Tony

[sevenworlds]

I think that about says it all (No judgement intended), but if you ever been touched deeply be love, you would know it.

Obviously I don't then. If it can be known (which means it can also leave) then it's a feeling, sensation, high, sex, lust, love - they're all the same.

Or you are a compassionate liar.

Why would I lie? Love, love, love, love... I can say it all day long. 4 letters, a sound, that's all. Means nothing else. I may as well say shit.

Yes, it is all selfish, but how can I change that ? I don-t even want to. Why should I ?

I don't see that you should change a thing. But if you really saw the truth of your selfishness you would no longer know when you are helping and the 'feel good' high wouldn't register as that.

Sorry, I don-t get that one.
Would you mind rephrasing that ?

Sorry, I'm saying I cannot make a final decision now that I won't come back on this forum. That's why I often say I'd need to be banned.

[Tony-S-Ma]

Why would I lie? Love, love, love, love... I can say it all day long. 4 letters, a sound, that's all. Means nothing else. I may as well say shit.

When one is immersed in shit, what can come out? "Shit shit shit...." As an on looker I would translate that into "I love shit". Or whatever I like to make of this oneness of shit.

Shitty Tony

[sevenworlds]

Immerse me in shit any day over this love you speak of. I have more respect for people who hate. They follow through and act. Those who constantly speak of love and compassion create the biggest havoc on this planet.

[Tony-S-Ma]

Those who constantly speak of love and compassion create the biggest havoc on this planet.

Nah, simple opposition won't do it. You know that already. Flipping the coin will not do a thing. You have to be love and compassion in order to get rid of the havoc, and expose the wolves in sheep's clothing. Young man, it is time for you to make the decision and take the road of hardship and suffering. Or for fever, the inner voice will hound you. Dancing around the Fire will not get you anywhere. UG danced around it, he has not done anything better for the humanity after he is granted the gift of awakening. He wasted his talent.

Compassionately Tony

[lucy]

Immerse me in shit any day over this love you speak of

If you don't know what it is, than how do you know that you'd rather be immersed in shit instead of it?

Those who constantly speak of love and compassion create the biggest havoc on this planet.

The Dalai lama speaks of love and compassion, he hasn't created any havoc although many would say he certainly is justified to do so. Gandhi spoke of love and compassion. Mother Theresa spoke of love and compassion. These people moved as love and compassion not the sticky ego emotion you are speaking of.

[Webwanderer]

Let us not confuse those who merely speak of love and compassion with those who actually express it. The experience is significantly different. Genuine love has no expectations of returned sentimentalities for its continued expression.

It may be that one who lives in wishful expectations of love expressed is vulnerable to painful experiences when those expectations are unmet (consciously or not). Such a thing could drive an ego into protective seclusion and all manor of defensive postures - such as hate and denial.

As for as love being just a word, so too is the finger pointing to the moon just a finger - but the moon exists irrespective of what points to it.

WW

[sevenworlds]

If you don't know what it is, than how do you know that you'd rather be immersed in shit instead of it?

From your point of view, not mine. This "love" seems to mean something to all of you.

The Dalai lama speaks of love and compassion, he hasn't created any havoc although many would say he certainly is justified to do so. Gandhi spoke of love and compassion. Mother Theresa spoke of love and compassion. These people moved as love and compassion not the sticky ego emotion you are speaking of.

Yes, and because of them and their like, this love and compassion has been hammered into us all to the point where politicians talk of it and then bomb entire countries, religions say it then kill over it, and billions of everyday people utter the words 'I love you' to those closest to them and in effect suffocate the potential for each other to be themselves. We've even invented a ceremony where you can get a thrill over saying this in front of others and then get divorced a few years later. So none of these figures mean anything to me because they've all played their part in suffocating human potential - billions creating havoc in their efforts to be loving and compassionate. No thanks.

[lucy]

Yes, and because of them and their like, this love and compassion has been hammered into us all to the point where politicians talk of it and then bomb entire countries, religions say it then kill over it, and billions of everyday people utter the words 'I love you' to those closest to them and in effect suffocate the potential for each other to be themselves. We've even invented a ceremony where you can get a thrill over saying this in front of others and then get divorced a few years later. So none of these figures mean anything to me because they've all played their part in suffocating human potential - billions creating havoc in their efforts to be loving and compassionate. No thanks.

Can you say anything that is truly yours 7worlds, all of this is from U.G. I listened to the same video. For someone who instructs everyone to purge all ideas that have been drilled into us, you sure quote U.G. a lot. I don't see any difference between you quoting U.G's ideas constantly and us talking about love and compassion.

[mistral]

First of all I would like to apologize for my rude out burst. Although, I must say, Marcel understood me well, and I appreciate his charming responses.

No need to say, but, I can get very riled up by some things that tip the scales for me, some times---not often-- but when I do, I forget to hold myself from blowing my gale force ice cold winds; Mistral.

Someone used to call me The Hurricane of Love—I liked that---at least he knew that behind my anger there is this desire to reveal Something Genuine that comes from Light and Truth in some way or other. My heart would wish to share, via my words, authentic insights that have been tried, tested and proven to be the real glimpses of God’s Grace and Its Light of Holy Living Presence that is in all things. Certainly not to bring harm or hurt through my words.

although I shared my anger, I will never use any words that would mislead or delude others— When I see that being done, then I struggle mightily to hold back my (what used to be called in the old days) righteous indignation.

Now, I know I raised a little hell here---but my intentions were noble, and that I know for myself, so my heart rests easy—or as the wise man Shakespeare said “to thine own self be true”—well, that I am--- I just need to state my points without offending (next time my wrath is so provoked).

I think I have mentioned this quote before, but, I need to really say this to MY Self, it is a biblical quote that I have always loved, It rings of Great Truth to me--- but obviously it is a quote I have not always adhered to: "How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news, who publish peace, who bring good tidings, who publish salvation, who say to Zion, "Your God reigns!" Isaiah 52:7

Here is the list of things I love: Those who have respect for themselves, which in turn is naturally a respect for others---reason being; that God and our self, each self, are one Self, thus any ‘other self’ is My Self. ( I think Lucy said that to me here, and she is right). The Real Identity is This One Holy Light that Is Being this Awareness I Am. So, there you go. No excuses on that one. Then, may I add to my list here these things that I think I should aspire to: Consistent moral standards, wholesome inclinations, self-control, an affirmative attitude towards life, enthusiasm and enough poise to make me immune to insult. I will not ever bow down to bitterness, retaliation, or revenge—a little puffed up anger, but not those. I re avow that my thinking and living and speaking is to be kind, tolerant, generous, considerate, honest and adaptable. And all the while I must stay true to my private ideals and not to lose sight of this Grace of This Christ Child Within that has found me and leads me.

Honest helpfulness begins so deep down inside that when it flows out into action, it glorifies everything we do. It certainly does not make others feel bad, or hurt. It will make others feel uplifted, relieved, refreshed, nurtured, safe in some way. I know that those who are honestly living in the Light of God’s Love and have truly put their ‘ego’ aside and really live in flow of oneness, those are the rare and beautiful souls who can make us better citizens of the universe just by being themselves.

I love cats, puppies, Christmas, Birthdays, the little giggle of a three year old, loving tears, holy grateful tears, gentle eyes, holding hands, kindness, thoughtfulness, graciousness, beauty of home, hearth, dinner with loved ones, cool breezes on summer nights, clean linens, soft cuddley familar warm bed, bliss, bliss, and such sweet bliss for so many things, tender, gentle love, sounds, color and time, years gone by, Blessed Life and life, life, bountiful, marvelous life which includes all the sweet sentimental dear and special things anyone with heart will love.

Love, Mistral

[lucy]

That was beautiful Mistral.

[Tony-S-Ma]

7 reminds me of my former self over 9 years ago when I first encountered U.G.'s materials on internet. I used so much of his ideas and and sayings that I got banned from a Buddhist forum. I was so blinded by my conviction that I assumed that was Enlightenment. Eventually I recognized that that enlightenment was repeatedly stating the same understanding over and over with negation as a shield against other ideas.

I really do not see how others can help 7 out of it until he recognizes himself needing change.

Incidentally, I am a great fan of Mahatma Gandhi whose politics was manifestation of himself, and not very impressed by current Dalai Lama who mixes politics with religion. The current Dalai Lama causes the havoc 7 mentions, and Mahatma Gandhi was love and compassion of his generation.

It is my sincere hope that 7 may experience the different between copies of love and compassion from love and compassion themselves.

Wishfully Tony

[sevenworlds]

Can you say anything that is truly yours 7worlds, all of this is from U.G. I listened to the same video. For someone who instructs everyone to purge all ideas that have been drilled into us, you sure quote U.G. a lot. I don't see any difference between you quoting U.G's ideas constantly and us talking about love and compassion.

Yes, because what you see is UG the man. I'm only interested in the actuality of what he's getting at. So I don't care if I sound like him.

The majority of people upon this earth are striving to be 'good people'. That striving prevents them from being what they are now. Now where have they got this idea of goodness, compassion, love? How do you define a 'good person'? They have been brainwashed because this love and compassion thing has been repeated so often that it's become a known thing with definable qualities. Therefore everyone in one way or another is trying to be this model person that has been set-up for us. It's sick. It's easy to say people haven't got the true meaning and all of that but maybe those figures you mention have made it too easy to turn into a doctrine, banging on about love and compassion. You accuse me of repeating Lucy, but what the hell are they doing and you yourself? Ghandi and all of them were repeating the same crap we've heard for thousands of years and that's why it's become the gospel truth.

If you are saying it's not the finger pointing but the moon itself why are you all so keen to call it love and compassion? If it is the thing that matters - whatever that is - then it should be possible to hurl obscenities at someone and for that person to recognise. If we assume someone like UG is coming from the same place as these other figures... if people are really getting the actual thing and not just in love with the imagery and idea of love and compassion, why are so few able to hear what he's saying yet claim they can hear the love and compassion brigade? Why aren't we holding him up as a great man to strive to be? I'm no way saying we should, only pointing out the fallacy of it all.

I saw this for myself long before I even knew about UG. I heard what Eckhart said, recognised it and then found myself on a forum where plenty people were using the same language, speaking of oneness and love and compassion - so many of them - and I soon realised they had already turned it into a doctrine, a belief system. They weren't living it. You people have all got family and commitments and whatever else and so you like the idea of all of this but you are afraid to rock the boat and live it. I'm not saying anything has to be changed or given up. Just to see it clearly and totally for once in your life would do it and you would no longer be there to choose where the pieces land. You are too afraid to take a good look in case you don't like what you see. I don't have to prove anything to any of you because I know you can runaway from this but you can't runaway from yourself. It will catch up with you eventually.

[Tony-S-Ma]

Just to see it clearly and totally for once in your life would do it and you would no longer be there to choose where the pieces land. You are too afraid to take a good look in case you don't like what you see. I don't have to prove anything to any of you because I know you can runaway from this but you can't runaway from yourself. It will catch up with you eventually.

I agree. When rational function stops working within oneself, that is one must face. Instinct function takes charge and that's experiencing death consciously. Fortunately, this only happens to a lucky few. Such experience can not be communicated rationally through thinking and feeling because it is beyond both of them. No wonder you are trying in vein, and nobody understands you. Nothing can replace direct experience and the memory of it.

However, it seems that your rational function is still in tack, and you just choose not to use give the experience any positive spin. As rational beings whose rational functions are working, we are still strongly convicted that there is a rational positive spin of your experience. Moreover, this medium is rational, anything irrational can not be expressed here. In mathematics, irrational numbers can never be expressed with rational numbers. And they can be approximated with rational numbers, or indicated (pointed with) with rational numbers.

Are you doing the same with shits and craps to indicate rationally what is not rationally inexpressible? I think everybody here is doing the same thing about their personal experiences. Rationally, we may call this each person experiences Reality uniquely. Rationally, there are positive and negative spins of personal experiences. And majority here prefers the positive spin. This does not make your negative spin wrong. Just different craps and shits (or love and compassion) How much more rational grossness brainwashed into your memory do you wish to use to show your rational side? Yeah, Yeah Yeah, I know you do give a crap about rationality.

Crappy Tony.

[lucy]

Yes, because what you see is UG the man. I'm only interested in the actuality of what he's getting at. So I don't care if I sound like him.

No, I don't see UG the man, I see the same actuality as you do. That's great that you don't care if you sound like him, than you shouldn't care if others are interested in the actuality of love and compassion.

You accuse me of repeating Lucy, but what the hell are they doing and you yourself? Ghandi and all of them were repeating the same crap we've heard for thousands of years and that's why it's become the gospel truth.

Ghandi and all of "them" were not repeating the same crap we've heard for thousands of years, they were living it, in my book there is a big difference between the two.( I think WW pointed that out in an earlier post). That is the way the "Truth" moved in them. It moved differently throough UG, I'm not saying one is better than the other. Once the separate me has been seen to be false, the Truth is free to move however it wants.

I saw this for myself long before I even knew about UG. I heard what Eckhart said, recognised it and then found myself on a forum where plenty people were using the same language, speaking of oneness and love and compassion - so many of them - and I soon realised they had already turned it into a doctrine, a belief system. They weren't living it.

There are many people on this board who know this and live this. To assume that you are in some way the only one privy to this, is in my view quite arrogant.

You people have all got family and commitments and whatever else and so you like the idea of all of this but you are afraid to rock the boat and live it.

You have nothing to base this on except for your own fears.

You are too afraid to take a good look in case you don't like what you see. I don't have to prove anything to any of you because I know you can runaway from this but you can't runaway from yourself. It will catch up with you eventually.

As far as I know, no one is asking you to prove anything. I asked questions based on your posts to help clairify what you were speaking of. You must know that when you go on a forum and tell other posters that they are not moving from the same place that you are and that they lack courage to jump off the "edge" as you say you've done (or it just happened)there are going to be questions.

You are too afraid to take a good look in case you don't like what you see

I am taking a good look, and actually, I like what I see and that also includes you Sevenworlds.