Relating with Others

[sevenworlds]

That's great that you don't care if you sound like him, than you shouldn't care if others are interested in the actuality of love and compassion.

The "actuality of love and compassion" - now you have turned that into some thing.

You don't understand that they are tricking you, even UG, when they say "you don't need to change anything". That statement is very convenient for you to hide behind when you have a certain lifestyle you don't want to disrupt. You like to reference Ghandi, Ramana, Tolle and all the rest of them but take a good look at it. They are saying one thing and doing another. Tolle walked out on career and everything, spent years drifting. Ramana walked out on his family aged 16 to live in the caves. J Krishnamurti dissolved this great organisation built around him, walked out on it. UG walked out on his degree and a promising career as a public speaker. Spent years adrift, homeless in London and then years living with a Swiss woman, who looked after him. If you watch that Mooji interview I linked to earlier, he walked out on a teaching job with no savings, spent 6 years living off his sister. Are you prepared for that? I'm not trying to convince you, it doesn't bother me whether you listen to this or not, cos I know it's inevitable. That fire will burn down everything you know. Maybe you have seen glimpses of this but to live it your whole life gets shattered and rearranged. Do you have the courage to go that far?

[lucy]

Are you prepared for that? I'm not trying to convince you, it doesn't bother me whether you listen to this or not, cos I know it's inevitable. That fire will burn down everything you know. Maybe you have seen glimpses of this but to live it your whole life gets shattered and rearranged. Do you have the courage to go that far?

If it's inevitable, what does courage have to do with it? "Having courage to go that far" implies a choice.

[Tony-S-Ma]

As far as I know, no one is asking you to prove anything. I asked questions based on your posts to help clairify what you were speaking of. You must know that when you go on a forum and tell other posters that they are not moving from the same place that you are and that they lack courage to jump off the "edge" as you say you've done (or it just happened)there are going to be questions.

Ignorance is blissful. The leading sheep jumped off the cliff; therefore, all that followed will have to jump off it in order to experience the sensation. A black sheep walks around it and tells the leading sheep that it has find a better way for the herd. The leading sheep replies: "You stupid idiot, some need to suffer as I do."

Some others gathered around(some jumped off the cliff, and others followed the black) overheard the conversation wonder "Should I continue to follow or wander on my own?".

The decision making here is a test of courage. Some would consult the leading sheep, and others would consult the black, and yet others will go off on their own. If the leading sheep is a True Wanderer, it will tell the followers to wander on their own or to follow him if they want to. However, he will not guarantee them anything.

The black is by nature unlike the others. It will suffer itself to test all the paths before telling others to follow it. It wishes minimum suffering for others. It tells others ahead of the time. For those who following it too closely, it tells them about True Wandering, and inform them that they will suffer as it does while testing out different paths for others to follow.

Of course, a follower always prefers a black leading sheep; however, over 99.999999999% of sheep is non-black. There are a lot more non-black wanderers than black ones. It takes a lot and lot and lot more for a wanderer to turn pure black like Jesus. Krishna, Zoroaster, Gautama, Huineng are mostly black. Of course, I have stated that there is a very dark sheep alive currently on earth. A true wanderer recognizes/intuits it instantly while in its presence. This presence includes books, videos, pictures and etc.

Become a true wanderer first, before you really know what love and compassion are. Current Dalai Lama does not get it. Seven is right about him, not right about Gandhi because 7 is at the edge of turning into a true wanderer. A true wanderer suffers without complain, nor bother to tell others about his own suffering after turning into a true wanderer. Of course, he does not mind to tell others the stories before he turns into a true wanderer. I do not give much crap to Ramana Maharshi because he was an accidental tourist like Muhammad. Not a true wander. A sheep strayed off the herd and fall off a cliff accidentally and did not make the decision to become a true wanderer after such Grace is granted to it. UG is the same. I am still grateful to UG because his experiences led me to the cliff. UG was my cliff. I wish 7 not not wasting the Grace granted him.

The other side of suffering of a true wanderer is the overflowing of Grace through him. He experiences more Grace than being normal like others.

Gloria in Excelsis Deo!

Have faith and not trust provisional conclusion from personal experiences too much.

God know what you want before you even pray for it, think of it, feel about it, sense it, intuit it.

Everyone wishes to be in Grace all the time, but do you know how much Grace your system can take? Seven intuitively knows this already.

Seven, seven, seven, you must turn into a three through your voluntary submission to the Lord before more Grace is granted to you.


Wordy Tony

[Onceler]

What on earth are you all talking about?

[lucy]

What on earth are you all talking about?

thanks Onceler I needed that. I wish I knew.

[Tony-S-Ma]

So do I

[sevenworlds]

If it's inevitable, what does courage have to do with it? "Having courage to go that far" implies a choice.

It's a drive, a single-mindedness to see the falseness of society's man-made rituals, dogmas and morals and then to take action, because you can't talk about being free while you are bound by them. I'm not speaking of breaking the law or anything here. I'm not even sure if you have a choice over that drive.

These teachers don't want you imitating them, abandoning all because you think it's what you should do spiritually. So they tell you nothing needs to be changed. They know that if you somehow come to an end, everything will be changed. But you won't be doing it. That energy is so refined and pure that your life as it stands is not equipped to handle it. So that's why in so many of these stories you have the individual walking out or everything falling apart around them. Their old life first has to fall to pieces to make space for this energy to create a new set of circumstances. Many get a glimpse that something is not quite right but then they look around and tell themselves they have too much to lose - family, career, money, commitments, all the ties. They lack the courage at that point to take a good look at it. Eventually these things must be revealed for what they are but how long do you want to delay?

Even the way this thread is turned into a light-hearted thing is evidence of that lack of drive. Laughter is fine but society has created humour as a barrier. It's a convenient way for us to acknowledge the absurdity of certain things, have a laugh about it, and then carry on as normal.

[randomguy]

That energy is so refined and pure that your life as it stands is not equipped to handle it. So that's why in so many of these stories you have the individual walking out or everything falling apart around them.

Lack of interest in prior life activities may be a common occurrence, but does not seem to be law. I have read the posts that go something like this; Now that I recognize the present moment, everything else is meaningless and egoic, and I no longer wish to do anything anymore. Isn't this a result of unquestioned stories? For example, if one used to windsurf, the story of looking to the past at the imagined self windsurfing (in the past) can result in a conclusion; I did it for ego, it was part of my egoic identity, all those windsurfers are egoic, I can't do that anymore. In reality, does it have anything to do with windsurfing or any story of past activity? "...your life as it stands is not equipped to handle it", is this true? "Life" as a concept is how we imagine it. Reality just is.

Call it drive, call it intention, whether it is free will or not a matter choice or something else, questioning the mind seems to reduce stagnation and the nagging concept of the antagonist society.

[sevenworlds]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you become stagnant or do nothing. Far from it. What you speak of can happen if you start to negate everything intellectually but that is not what I am talking about. When the one who thinks he is living a life, doing these activities, disappears, the desire is no longer there. It can't be sustained anymore because there is no timeline. Living becomes like a series of individual events with no-one linking them up. That makes it very difficult to strive, to chase and our whole society is built upon that. So I am not saying turning against society is the answer. You can try but it's the same mentality. The lightning has to hit first and then the society will fall away naturally. You don't have to turn against it. It's simply that it's morals, laws, regulations, and rituals all seem curious and silly. To someone operating through intellect, you may look like you are very much taking part. You might find yourself at a birthday party or the cinema or playing music but none of these things interest you like they did before. The reason society has created events like Christmas and birthdays is for pleasure. We deny it occuring naturally the rest of the year with all our morals and rules - the workplace - and so we need these events to give us something to look forward to, to let our hair down. If you feel natural peace and joy, why would you go out your way to join in the madness of rushing around buying gifts and cards and building up one day of the year as something special and then at the end of it, you are in debt, stressed and fat. I'm not against these things but as long as you have them you must accept you will also have binge-drinking and violence and the football hooligan culture. People are caged in 5 days a week and so they do what they have to do to let their hair down at the weekends. It's no different to what we think of as the civilised events.

"...your life as it stands is not equipped to handle it", is this true?

It's all energy. If the energy in what you call your body suddenly takes a leap - and that is what this is, it's a leap, not a steady progression - then there are bound to be people and circumstances around you, which may have resonated with your previous energy, and for one reason or another cannot come along for the ride. That's why so often a death of someone close to you will happen around this time, or you'll get the sack, be made homeless, end a relationship, fall out with people, or gravitate away of your own accord.

[lucy]

It's all energy. If the energy in what you call your body suddenly takes a leap - and that is what this is, it's a leap, not a steady progression

I agree that it is all the same energy. Energy that vibrates at different frequencies. In some people who are very identified with ego the energy is very dense, almost solid. In others, there is more "space" between the atoms, so to speak. They are not as dense and not as identified with their egos. Eckhart is like a tuning fork, when you are in his presence, and if you are not too dense(identified) it is very easy to move into that space of no one. There are posters here who carry that same energy in their posts. Sometimes it can be a leap, but for others it can also be a steady progression. Just because it occured that way in your case does not mean that is the way it is for everybody. Using your experience of this as a "blueprint" can be a form of separation, very subtle but still separation.

[sevenworlds]

No, Lucy, I'm not using my experience as blueprint. I really don't know what happened to me. I have to use others as a reference to put my experience into some sort of context. Something happened to me at 17, some sort of energy took hold, which I never understood at the time. This set-up the progression period you talk about, but the actual leap in consciousness happened 10 years later. Even now I am still piecing it together. Mooji spoke in a recent interview about how something happened to him at 32 and put him in a permanent state of peace but it wasn't until 6 years later when he met Papaji that it finished him off completely. The reason I relate to UG is because when I read his story I immediately recognised it. He spent about 10 years in the wilderness, where he felt his "head was gone" before the real thing finished him off. During that 10 years he was getting all sorts of odd feelings in his body and various spiritual experiences but he never thought much of them. I too had this all throughout my 20s. Some process was going on but I didn't have any spiritual knowledge so it never occured to me it would be anything like this. I heard Jac O'Keefe recently say she would have experiences and then acquire the knowledge later. That is essentially how it happened to me. Some get the spiritual knowledge before and some get it after. Some begin to cast away their old life before and some after. There is a process or progression to that but the recognition of 'you' for what it is happens instantaneously. It is not of time.

[Marcel Franke]

7 of One:
> Tolle walked out on career and everything, spent years drifting.
> J Krishnamurti dissolved this great organisation built around him, walked out on it.
--- cut ---
> Are you prepared for that?
> Do you have the courage to go that far?

Isnt it so that this happened to ET and JK after they became ablaze ? (Dont know about the others.)
In that case, tomorrow is often the busiest day of the week.
I'm not that horrified by the idea off giving up my present "luxuries".
I already made a little start by working 3x8, starting this month. : - )
And thinking further in time, those hardships seemed to have been a great -investment- for the periods that follow,
as far as those ablazed ones are concerned.

What to me seems more horrifying, is ripe pre-ablazement,
ready to dive into the complete unknown when you discover that you can,
almost completely letting go of your identity only holding on with only your fingers on the edge,
almost unreturnably letting go of old friend Fear to be your guardian and motivator,
thus saying goodbye to ego-time,
completely unable to see beyond,
almost falling into nothing,
the endless unknown,
time to die.

For ET that must have been easy,
considering that he was very frustrated by life ?

Bye,
MF.

[karmarider]

You don't understand that they are tricking you, even UG, when they say "you don't need to change anything". That statement is very convenient for you to hide behind when you have a certain lifestyle you don't want to disrupt. You like to reference Ghandi, Ramana, Tolle and all the rest of them but take a good look at it. They are saying one thing and doing another. Tolle walked out on career and everything, spent years drifting. Ramana walked out on his family aged 16 to live in the caves. J Krishnamurti dissolved this great organisation built around him, walked out on it. UG walked out on his degree and a promising career as a public speaker. Spent years adrift, homeless in London and then years living with a Swiss woman, who looked after him. If you watch that Mooji interview I linked to earlier, he walked out on a teaching job with no savings, spent 6 years living off his sister. Are you prepared for that? I'm not trying to convince you, it doesn't bother me whether you listen to this or not, cos I know it's inevitable. That fire will burn down everything you know. Maybe you have seen glimpses of this but to live it your whole life gets shattered and rearranged. Do you have the courage to go that far?

Awakening does change life fundamentally--that's the whole point. It doesn't take courage--I was not a courageous person, indeed I was full of fear. All the "courageous" things happened later, when I was no longer afraid, so I can't call that courage. It does not take humility--this person who started awakening was very proud of his intellect. All it takes is a small intellectual understanding that there is such as thing as awakening, and a small intention to awaken.

I realize there are traditions which say you have to want awakening as much as a drowning person wants air, or some such horrifying metaphor. My experience is that a small intention is all it takes, because underneath all other desires, is the intention to stop believing the delusions.

[Mesquared]

Awakening does change life fundamentally--that's the whole point. It doesn't take courage--I was not a courageous person, indeed I was full of fear. All the "courageous" things happened later, when I was no longer afraid, so I can't call that courage. It does not take humility--this person who started awakening was very proud of his intellect. All it takes is a small intellectual understanding that there is such as thing as awakening, and a small intention to awaken.

I know I'm jumping into the middle of something here, but I was so compelled to respond to what karmarider wrote above so nicely. I find courage in myself now when I take a breath and respond out of presence instead of knee-jerk reactions. I didn't know much about courage before. (Of course, I'm letting God flow through me, too; so, maybe it isn't really about me? ) I maybe had the tiniest bit of humility before awakening, though, to know that something was amiss in my being.

I am very curious about people who have "gone all the way" and perhaps "know" more than I do in their deep meditations. However, I have no desire to leave all that I am doing or abandon my relationships. I find much joy in being in relationship with them and watching Life unfold and experiencing Life. Isn't that what Christianity is about? (My tradition, that is.) Body and soul? Living in relationship and just not law? ... I am still learning.

Also, I don't find Eckhart to be a teacher of detachment altogether. Detachment from the egoic mind in terms of being aware of it, yes....but he speaks so much about the body's aliveness and the joy of being together....it seems the wisdom of "going all the way" is found with other teachers. Yes? I feel a little scattered on this last point, as if I am not articulating myself quite right.

I know Eckhart let go of much in his journey. I don't feel we all have to walk that exact same path. All these teachers have opened doors of awareness for us. Maybe I feel this way because I am biologically attached to a small child. My life is so beautiful as it is. Why leave?

Peace.

M2

[mistral]

My journey has brought me closer to the world, I am able to embrace the world and be in love with my world so much more than 'before' I understood 'my Real Identity'. Everything seems more alive and I see 'God' in everything.

Sometimes I have to stop and stand back a moment, so as to look for the Good behind some events, but I always find it.

Somehow loving my world has made my world love me more too, it is all such a beautiful miracle and I am still learning, still getting new insights, or reviewing old ones and seeing them in new light. The joy seems to be that I do not stop learning, I do not just 'get it' and then "i am wake'; Now I am awake and the journey is so much more precious meaningful.

What ever this is, I more engaged with others, with things, with the Spirit behind the things, with searching for the 'right way' to do things in and with this Presence I call LIfe Itself. Being in the Presence just makes everything a whole lot easier and there is this Grace that washes over it all, making it all very valueable in one way or an other. The courage comes with the understanding where the 'Real Power' is, seeing how the images I used to give power do not hold The Power. The Real Power is in this Holy Light being all that is, This is the Eternal Power and It is in us or Is the very Self we are. Or maybe it is that this Grace and Flow sort of nullifies the need for courage---we can laugh at situations that once seemed so formidable and overwhelming.

Love, Mistral