Karmic Decision

[Tony-S-Ma]

Again; Awareness, Divine Principle, Truth, Life, God ( all the same to me, no matter what name I give's it) is not altered, changed, made more of what it is or less what it is, by the labels within It Self---This Light of Truth that is Ever Present and Always Here. My Holy Beloved One and The Grace of this Living Truth, Life, Divine Intelligence, Godhead; This-One-That-Is Being All in all, This the very awareness reading these words and writing these words, is The immutable, Single, All and Only Presence. There is no other Presence. No amount of labeling or not labeling will have any effect on This Living Perfection that is Being all labels, all form, all matter, all space, all that is seen or unseen, known and unknown. The Living One, The Divine Principle that is Being the warp and woof of all that is, is changeless and eternal. Whether someone likes to make his arms disappear into the chair, or whether someone likes to feel like he is not there in the room, or not, makes not one bit of an iota of difference to This Awareness I Am (you are). Feeling no "you" or feeling 'full of you' both ways are prefecly acceptable but whatever you do or do not do, still, Perfection remains Unchanged by our shennangins. Low and Behold, even an atom bomb cannot destroy Awareness.

Principle, God of all existence is eternal, without beginning and without end, indestructible, and continuous in being, no matter what the tortured meanderings of human activity. And since the Principle continues, so continues all that the Principle is. God the substance and essence of all that is, remains perfect, unabated and untouched—everywhere present and nowhere absent. So, as in my original post here ( and I wrote a whole long thing about it), I dare say labeling is a joy for me, I love words and labels, the more the merrier, bring 'em on. Distinctions are fine and dandy with me, they are a marvel of God. It makes no matter no how to This That I Am, but knowing that to be True sure makes My Life a bowl of cherries.

As some comedian used to say "that's my story and I am stick'in to it"

Much Joy in the this Marvelous Truth, Mistral

This is what I call beyond understanding on the scale of consciousness. Unconditional Love shines through the words and labels. Yes, it seems unpopular to mention God in the awakening business; however, Truth ain't always popular. Jesus was killed for expressing Truth.

I must confess that finally, somebody's posting is resonating in my heart. Loving God is a conscious learning experience for me after I was 35. I had taken agnostic position before that. Three times, the Grace of God enlightened me when I was in the deepest personal hell. The stories are not important, but the lesson was drilled into me three times.

If one really wishes for Truth of Awakening, pray for Divine Help is the most direct method. Other people's experiences, explanations and techniques are all second hand information.

[sevenworlds]

Tony, sorry, but if anyone here is suffering brain malfunction it might be you. I saw that Jill Bolte Taylor video a year ago and if you think that is what I'm experiencing carry on. She suffered a stroke, part of her brain shut down. She may have experienced certain parallels with spiritual experiences but to say this is what myself and UG went through...

The moment you said Jesus was the only saviour, all others are only teachers, told me everything I need to know about you. Where did you learn this and where did you learn your technique of praying for help? I'd keep praying for a while yet.

mistral, I'm not saying the experiences themselves are the actual thing. There are people who can use their will to do all sorts of crazy things but they aren't free. This just happened to me, I didn't will anything. I never even knew it was possible at that time. The one witnessing it all is where I remain. All I can say is when that witness is recognised, the body has to undergo changes to integrate itself in experiencing in a new way. How can you speak of all, one or everything when you still have a separate body? Then it's just an intellectual understanding. My body now is all I see, my whole consciousness. That doesn't mean if someone asks me to show them my right hand I'm not going to know. Of course I will still refer to 'my body' when appropriate. That was programmed in when I was a child and none of the conditioning or programming is lost. It can't dictate or influence me anymore like it once did.

UG Krishnamurti helped put a lot of this into some sort of context so I could better understand and explain it, but I have also since heard Mooji, and others I don't doubt, speaking about these things. This video explains it very well and might be of interest to some:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbFXeK37zHE

[randomguy]

seven, I laughed when I saw that video. People show up to hear UG, he shows up, then he tells them to go somewhere else. "You are not going to get anything here." - U.G.
U.G.'s description of the 'natural state', yes, that's the 'not-knowing' with access to learned knowledge. Thanks for posting the link.

[sevenworlds]

randomguy, I know! It's all such a joke. We pay money for books, CDs, talks, do endless activities and techniques all in the aim of being ourselves. The one thing that nobody else can give to us.

The difficulty is in explaining that in order for that learned knowledge to fall into it's proper place, it first has to be completely kicked out of your system, brutally and honestly seen for what it is. People don't want to hear that because they like to romanticise about this knowledge. They will defend it to the end. Mistral loves words, Tony likes his numbers. What would 'I' be without that?

[mistral]

Jesus said : "If those who lead You say to You : 'See, the Kingdom is in heaven !', then the birds of the sky will be there before You. If they say to You, 'It is in the sea !', then the fish will be there before You. But the Kingdom is inside You and outside You. When You know Yourselves, then You will be known, and You will know that You are the children of the Living Father. But if You do not know Yourselves, then You dwell in poverty ; then You are that
poverty."

Jesus said : "This heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. In the days when You consumed death, You made death alive. When You come to dwell in the light, what will You do ? On the day when You were one, You became two. But when You become two, what will You do ?"

Jesus said : "When You see one who was not born of woman, prostrate Yourselves on Your faces and worship. That one is Your Father."

The disciples said to Jesus : "Tell us how our end will be." Jesus said : "So have You discovered the beginning, that You look for the end ? For where the beginning is, there the end will be. Fortunate is he who stands at the beginning ; he will know the end and will not taste death."

Why would you laugh at us? Why would you laugh at our Love for This True Master? Do you spread your laughter equally, and laugh at the folks who love Lao Tse? or Buddah? Do you? Because these Divine Lights have brought to those who seek a glimmer of the Miricles and Marvels of Love and Living Truth. Why Do you snicker at certain words, why the predjudice about some Teachers and not at others? Judgmental and reactive to powerless images and words that have no power, why so antagonistic, and brutal for no reason. There is beauty and Good in all the forms, all images that are within God's Awareness.

And if you read those quotes, you will see they are all about the very same things that Eckart is saying. Read with insight, and you will see and hear the same things your other teachers have helped you to understand.

And the original thread here was about 'attitude'; What you be is what you see.

Mistral

[sevenworlds]

You can quote Jesus all you like, he was full of crap like the rest of us. Until you get behind those words, they are just hollow phrases you're chucking out.

It's like Tony... he claims he keeps following me about on this forum for reasons of his own. He is persistent with me because he knows there is something to what I am saying and at the same time it is a threat to his very identity. So he has to keep throwing his theories on me in fear they will be destroyed.

[Tony-S-Ma]

It's like Tony... he claims he keeps following me about on this forum for reasons of his own. He is persistent with me because he knows there is something to what I am saying and at the same time it is a threat to his very identity. So he has to keep throwing his theories on me in fear they will be destroyed.

As I said you are ego driven. I have lost my identities many times in my life. I was a communist, a patriotic Chinese, a Buddhist, a Mormon, a U.G. Krishnamurti fan... What you are saying is not much different from U.G. I have heard it 10 years ago. I am only throwing theories here to experiment on ego which is not what you are. It is the ego driven self can not help to keep its identity of being similar to others such as U.G. and Mooji. That identity needs to seek similarities. I admired U.G. Krishnamurti a lot because he claimed his own truth without having to rely on anybody else' experiences. However, your ego driven identity has tried to identify what you are experiencing with what U.G. and ET were saying. Jesus never sought similarity of personal experiences in others, He claimed Truth.

When I was a U.G. fan over ten years ago, I experienced a huge energy surge for a period of over eight month. My ego driven identity as a U.G. fan was able to paraphrase U.G. without have to rely on U.G. as an authority. That paraphrasing came out of my ego identity automatically. Due to this, and you. I have learned that U.G. Krishnamurti was also driven by an ego identity. That was a partial reason that I eventually lost the identity of being a U.G. fan.

During the time of recovery from being a U.G. fan, I recognized one thing about U.G. He repeated himself endlessly with the same explanations on every subject under the Sun. That was why the instant I read your first posting, I saw a carbon copy of U.G. or similar type of ego driven identity. There is no life in that identity other than endlessly repeating itself.

Here is another theory for your enjoyment:

When some people are enlightened, their souls have the option to leave from the human organisms. The organisms; however, will continue to live with ego driven identities. Such human organisms are soulless Karma toys. That was what was lift of U.G. Krishnamurti. His soul had long gone before the physical death of his organism.

There is another theory to throw in:

Each person has many ego driven identities. Not just one as many have believed.

"Know Thyself!"

[Tony-S-Ma]

Typical manifestations of an ego driven identity are Divinity hating, Sacredness desecrating, fear mongering, selfishness promoting and negativity.

[Tony-S-Ma]

Tony, sorry, but if anyone here is suffering brain malfunction it might be you. I saw that Jill Bolte Taylor video a year ago and if you think that is what I'm experiencing carry on. She suffered a stroke, part of her brain shut down. She may have experienced certain parallels with spiritual experiences but to say this is what myself and UG went through...

Another theory about your and U.G. would be that you guys are suffering from undetectable strokes which causes you experience left brain disassociation. You can get a brain scan to test this theory out. U.G. refused to be a lab rat for science.

[HermitLoon]

Some words from chapter 3 of the deeply resonant perspective of the Avadhuta Gita - which is as close to "realization expressed" as I have found:

" How shall I worship that great Pure Awareness Which is neither personal nor impersonal.
Taintless, above love and aversion, uncreated, All pervasive, of the form of the universe, Having no attributes, yet not attributeless That all-bliss Pure Awareness, my Self.
2. How shall I bow down to mine own Self In my own Self and by my Self? I have no colours, white or yellow; Eternal Pure Awareness am I.
3. I am rootless, and without root, Free from smoke, and smokeless am I, Without a lamp, and lightless am I, Equanimity am I, like a sun ever risen.
4. How can I name the passionless, desireless One As having desires? The Absolute cannot Be described in terms of conditions; How can I speak of myself? I am neither with an essence, Nor am I without an essence. Space-like all equanimity am I.
"I am not without an essence," then . . .
5. How shall I say that non-duality Is all this creation, or that, or that? Even if it be duality, then too I cannot Attribute creation or dissolution to It. How can the Eternal, the All Be expressed in any way? Space-like, all-bliss am I.
6. Neither gross nor subtle is my Pure Awareness; It comes not, and It goes not; Without a beginning and without an end; Neither higher nor lower is It; That Truth absolute, space-like, Immortality-giving knowledge am I.
7. Know well that all the senses Are as space, and so also their objects. Know that the One is taintless, The One is neither bound nor free. That all-pervasive ever-blissful Pure Awareness, Immortality-giving knowledge am I.
8. The knowledge of the Self, hard to obtain, Which is experienced, is not Pure Awareness; The object of meditation, Hard to concentrate upon, is not Pure Awareness; That which is near, and that which is far, far away, Is not Pure Awareness. Space-like, all-bliss Pure Awareness am I, Pure Awareness am I.
9. Without karma am I, I burn up karmas; Without pain am I, I burn up sufferings; Bodiless, homeless am I, and yet I burn up these, All equanimity, space-like am I.
10. The seed of the plant of the world exists not in me, Contentment and pleasures exist not in me; Bondage and ignorance are not in me; Space-like, absolute Pure Awareness am I.
11. Pure Awareness is not the Knower Nor the known. It is not accessible to inference. Words cannot describe This Consciousness Absolute. The mind is lost in Its majesty. How can It be explained to you?
As space-like I AM-realization giving immortality "

p.s. I have edited this and replaced the word "Avadhut" with "Pure Awareness".
One translation of "Avadhut" is Pure Awareness

[sevenworlds]

Tony, please I'm warning you, you're playing with fire and if you're not careful you're going to get burnt.

You are clearly in need of help. If you were stupid enough to fall into all of the external organisations you mention then it's no wonder you became a "U.G. Krishnamurti fan" and no wonder you can't get what I'm saying. All you are doing is projecting your own problems onto me.

I have never followed any organisations. Since I was young I've always been sceptical of any of that. I've never been religious, nor a patriot, I walked out on education at 16 when I could have went to uni because I could see it for what it was. I never trusted any authority although I never rebelled either. Eckhart then UG, came into my path, I saw the truth of it and that was that. No need to become a fan or mimic.

What you fail to understand because of the stubbornness of your intellect, which is you in itself, are no words are your own. Nobody is capable of saying anything original about this. Jesus was always repeating himself, telling stupid little parables. I don't care if I sound like UG or anyone else because to you, I'm always going to sound like somebody. Your intellect will always want to take my statements and compare them with others to maintain itself. This is how the idea of lineages was born. Stubborn minds trying their best to fit what one teacher said into what had come before. Mind always has to refer everything to the past. I know you won't listen to any of this and so carry on with your little theories but I am deadly serious. I would stay away from me if I was you because you WILL get burnt. I've seen it happen to others.

[Tony-S-Ma]

It is so interesting how ego driven identity misinterprets and assumes. If by now you have not recognized that I am character wise an extreme individualist, you really have lost yourself in your ego identities.

I have claimed many many many times that individual selves are eternal. Why the hell does this individual need to follow any organization? This self does not need other people to verify Truth.

"The Kingdom of Heaven is within you."

Incidentally, "I don't care" is another ego driven identity of yours. It can not shut up about saying "I don't care." This self used to love "I don't care" in another time period when it was in its teens rebelling against the Communist belief brainwashed into it.

The same ol' and same ol' blaming the mind and intellect is one of typical ego driven identities of those who thought they were awakened.

Those who claim no-selves, can hardly recognize that they have many ego driven identities which are the consequences of their beliefs and/or understandings within their subconsciousness.

I could just follow the no-selves theory, and declare that poking at the egoic identities of sevenworlds is poking at my own egoic identities. So you can tell me that how crafty my egoic intellect is

Your ego driven identity regarding Jesus is really out for lunch. Truth is changeless, and the expressions/manifestations of Truth are infinitely many. Those who get the essence is free to copy others or make up on their own.

Perhaps, the biggest ego driven identity of sevenworlds is this "I only trust my own experience, my own understanding, and I don't follow anybody.".

Regarding being burnt, this self has experienced quite few of them. The initial ones were really bad, and after awhile one becomes wiser in experimenting with Life.

When the fear of death is taken away from you, what is there to be afraid?

Suffering, of course. In the awakening business, there is a path called "Conscious labouring and intentional suffering". G.I. Gurjieff was a great example of people following that path. In this sense, suffering is not a big deal.

After this, this self does not know what is there to be afraid of other than the karma consequence of its decisions. The karmic decision of this self is learning through rest of this life. There is no foreseeable consequence in this decision generating any fear. This self takes its existence as eternal, so getting burnt zillion of times is natural.

[mistral]

First of all, thank you Andy for your helpful commentry at the end of "related to others" thread, your observation of the bully in the play yard over here was nice to see and I appreciate it.

But, besides all that, I just found this wonderful essay on my friends website that explains very well, some of the questsions and comments on the this thread. Go so this:

http://www.williamsamuel.com/07-20-08-c ... ective.htm

I think it is just brimming with insight and clarity.

Much Love, Mistral