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Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 4:21 pm
by Electrophant
Robin wrote: Btw how do you know that the satori you experience is not a little "drug" cussion the ego is sitting on? ;-))
The satoris are unlike any feeling, emotion, though, or dream....there is no way to describe it that the mind can comprehend. The ego just kicks in and tries to label the experience to the closest thing it knows...but it's not the same. It eill never understand it --kind of like it cannot understand dreamless sleep.

Anyways, if all thought is not ego, that's reassuring to my(?) mind. It's logical, but I don't know anything anymore...I will just shut off the mind as much as possible and use it as needed to play through this physical form's existence. :-)

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 3:48 am
by eputkonen
Glycine wrote:
eputkonen wrote:No. Assuming there is a thinker thinking the thoughts is ego.
Interesting. But who is assuming there is a thinker thinking?
No who.

It is a illusion created by the thinking mind. Like the illusion of a solid circle when your are twirling a sparkler. It is due to the image retention of the eyes and interpretation by the brain that a single lit point twirling looks like a circle.

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 5:40 am
by RCharles
Once again, Eric, you post some wonderful thoughts. Why not play at life? I love it. And about taxes, they are the ultimate test of consciousness. Working on the car comes in a very close second. When I can do the taxes or fix the car without irritation, I'll know I'm enlightened. Let me tell you, it hasn't happened yet. :D

To everyone here, I offer this challenge. Think you're enlightened? Do the thing that is most likely to provoke you to serious anger. If you can keep your peace, you've arrived. :D

In fact, I wouldn't mind giving Eckhart a wrench, sticking him under my car, and telling him he's not coming out until the oil is changed and the spark plugs replaced. We'll soon see what he's really made of. :D

Charles

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:56 am
by Robin
RCharles wrote:Once again, Eric, you post some wonderful thoughts. Why not play at life? I love it. And about taxes, they are the ultimate test of consciousness. Working on the car comes in a very close second. When I can do the taxes or fix the car without irritation, I'll know I'm enlightened. Let me tell you, it hasn't happened yet. :D

To everyone here, I offer this challenge. Think you're enlightened? Do the thing that is most likely to provoke you to serious anger. If you can keep your peace, you've arrived. :D

In fact, I wouldn't mind giving Eckhart a wrench, sticking him under my car, and telling him he's not coming out until the oil is changed and the spark plugs replaced. We'll soon see what he's really made of. :D

Charles

LOL, I agree. .Having kids is a great teacher too, they turn you into a Zen master in no time that is if they don’t break you beforehand and then standing there watching you sink and down into a pain body attack. :wink:
I believe that real life is the best teacher.
Cheers
Robin

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:09 pm
by Tony-S-Ma
t is a illusion created by the thinking mind. Like the illusion of a solid circle when your are twirling a sparkler. It is due to the image retention of the eyes and interpretation by the brain that a single lit point twirling looks like a circle.
Circle, point, slit? Where they are coming from?

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:10 pm
by eputkonen
Tony-S-Ma wrote:
t is a illusion created by the thinking mind. Like the illusion of a solid circle when your are twirling a sparkler. It is due to the image retention of the eyes and interpretation by the brain that a single lit point twirling looks like a circle.
Circle, point, slit? Where they are coming from?
No where.

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:30 pm
by Tony-S-Ma
:lol: No No. Just do all with no you never loose. :idea:

:mrgreen: With the shield of negation, welding the sword of non-duality, the fool becomes nothing in everything, all places, all the time. :oops:

NO why, NO who, NO where, NO what, NO when, NO how. Easy trick to learn. This is NO trick 8)

Incidentally, I named my son Eric.



y no T

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:36 pm
by Glycine
eputkonen wrote:
Glycine wrote:
eputkonen wrote:No. Assuming there is a thinker thinking the thoughts is ego.
Interesting. But who is assuming there is a thinker thinking?
No who. It is a illusion created by the thinking mind.
Very good analogy with the illusion of a solid circle - Thank you Eric.
However, my question is: Who/what is watching the illusion?
If the answer is that awareness is watching the illusion, why does it let itself be hypnotized by this illusion?
Apparently, awareness "enjoys" being hypnotized.

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:31 pm
by Tony-S-Ma
Apparently, awareness "enjoys" being hypnotized.
A tinny glycine trumps much thoughtful wordiness as well as some clever short Zen statements

Man oh man, when woman gets it , man must bowl down before her. Long live the Priestess. When one who naturally knows how to cover masters focusing, those who naturally know focusing have nowhere to hide.

:cry: it is very very very hard for a fool to cover himself up all the time. Please give him some privacy. :oops:

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 3:52 pm
by eputkonen
Glycine wrote:If the answer is that awareness is watching the illusion, why does it let itself be hypnotized by this illusion?
Apparently, awareness "enjoys" being hypnotized.
Basically, the same question as 'why was the universe created'.

An answer is because of desire...more specifically the desire to experience. Take the sun for example...if it was conscious and looking out...if there were no objects (planets) then it would only experience a great, black expanse of space. It takes an 'other' - a planet - to pass within the projected light to evoke the experience of light by reflecting off the planet. Likewise, Awareness is not aware of itself - it is aware of objects that pass before it. So if there was no illusion (no forms), there would be no experience...much like deep, dreamless sleep (which is a time of awareness but no objects to be aware of).

Now we do not remain in deep, dreamless sleep endlessly...we have dreams. Why? Because we want them...we desire to experience. As the dreamer (that which creates and is all within the dream) there is omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence. But what is the fun in remaining as that? Such a one can not experience awe, surprise, or countless other experiences. So the view point of dream character is adopted...or seen through like colored lenses and blinders. The experience is only of what the dream character could experience. Why would the dreamer play the role of a dream character? Because it is great fun...now we can discover the world around us that we created for ourselves with fresh eyes that have never seen any of this. We can be awed, surprised, shocked, and more.

It is part of the game to be just this little person in the big world. And the big game is hide and seek. Going into deep identification with the dream character is the hide part...and then there is seeking.

So in a way you are right, awareness "enjoys" being hypnotized.

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 5:17 pm
by HermitLoon
"Pure Awareness" is attributeless - is nothing - does nothing - no duality, no "who", no "what", no "why" - cannot be labled or described.
Even "it" or "that" are misnomers - even "is".
Neti, Neti.

And yet, within the human experience, we sense "something" and insist on trying to describe "it"! :wink: :lol:

Peace

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 5:43 pm
by randomguy
Glycine wrote:Who/what is watching the illusion?
That's a good question to go within and ask myself, and experience the answer without conclusion. Or What is, or What am I? When asking, am I anticipating a conceptual answer, an acceptable definition that may or may not align with other thoughts that my mind has habitually identified with? Or am I asking with an open mind, with only a surrendered sense of curious exploration? What is more true to my being, a new thought to attach to, or a vivid experienced awareness of this undefinable existence?

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:14 pm
by HermitLoon
Attempting to convert "something" that is beyond consciousness to consciousness is impossible.
In this consciousness called HL the "things" that come closest are Buddha's "Silent Sermon", the "Advahutta Gita" and experiencing Lake Superior while walking in the woods at sunrise.

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:32 pm
by Electrophant
HermitLoon wrote:"Pure Awareness" is attributeless - is nothing - does nothing - no duality, no "who", no "what", no "why" - cannot be labled or described.
Even "it" or "that" are misnomers - even "is".
Neti, Neti.

And yet, within the human experience, we sense "something" and insist on trying to describe "it"! :wink: :lol:

Peace
Yes exactly! When I'm fully aware, I don't care to do anything, I am no-thing, no-thought.

When I think, it's impossible to have non-duality, non-judgments, no-time. It's impossible to converse without using the thinker, too....which has opinions, judgments, biases, etc... Thus it's hard to say that thoughts can exist independent of ego.

Even asking who/what is watching the thinker is just more thinking...more ego.

To interact socially in this world, you have to use your ego...just not identify with it. Is this what some of you more enlightened people have Realized?

Re: Why do anything?

Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 8:33 pm
by Sighclone
Eric has mentioned one of my favorite topics in nonduality: fun. Fun as in Joy. Fun as in the amnesia of reincarnation. As we grind away with our words and language to re-express the inexpressible (as we are always reminded by HL - :) ), we often forget the fun.

I happen to like to change the oil. I have a garage full of tools. I like working in the subsatnce of manifested reality...in the nitty-gritty of down-and-dirty physical world. But when I focus in on it, I realize that, in a way, it's not "out there, while I'm in here..." I find it is pretty hard to separate me from the hexnut, when things are going well.

Charles comments on frustration in this activity and he's also very right. There is a temptation to identify with the feeling of frustration. Frustration is not fun. When animals experience trauma, they flutter their feathers and let it go (from ET). Sometimes I will bang a wrench against a tire. Until the frustration dissipates. Simply entering the peace of the present moment also works - actually it works better, of course. Either way, the experience of engaging the coarse outer world can be a portal, as can frustration.

When phsicists began exploring the smallest particles in the universe, their world-view began to change. Suddenly, the separation between the object of the experiment and the experimenter dissolved. For our purposes, the wavefunction collapses into the Newtonian model. But the immanence of Being remains in the smallest grain of sand. Even if it's between your teeth.

Namaste, Andy