Can we agree that "I" and "me" DO exist?

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Can we agree that "I" and "me" DO exist?

Post by RCharles » Tue May 19, 2009 11:22 pm

Hi all,

I'm sure this will be controversial. :wink: Over and over in this forum and in the many talks I've seen by enlightened teachers, I've seen a lot of tap dancing around the use of "I" and "me" that borders on the absurd. Who feels headaches, love, anger, anxiety, etc? Nobody? Nonsense! Silly semantics!

Even when we are in Big Mind awareness and not identified with the fiction of ego, a body and mind that we call "I" or "me" still physically exists, still generates feelings and thoughts (no matter how fleeting or fictional), still experiences physical sensations, and still is a being in this universe. Can we agree that it's perfectly acceptable to call this being "I" or "me?"

Or let me put it more affirmatively. This body/mind intends to stop tap dancing and just use "I" or "me" no matter how enlightened he may or may not become. Ahhh! "I" find that quite liberating! :lol:

"They are all...perfect..." --Ken Watanabe, dying scene in the movie The Last Samurai

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Re: Can we agree that "I" and "me" DO exist?

Post by karmarider » Wed May 20, 2009 4:40 am

Great point!

I've never seen an enlightened teacher fumble with I or me. They quote the "I" to make a point. The mind/body exists. The quoted "I" or "me" refers to the concept we have of ourselves, and even that "I" exists, as a concept. I suggest, gently, that if you're tempted to quote your "I", take a look to see if you've created an intellectual trap for yourself.

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Re: Can we agree that "I" and "me" DO exist?

Post by Sighclone » Wed May 20, 2009 7:05 pm

In Emptiness Dancing, Adya distinguishes between a "sense of self" which remains after enlightenment, and the nefarious ego, which does not. Some people use "i" in lower case after awakening, in their communications with me. The essential point is that self-realization is the end of the ego's vise-grip on the narrow reality you perceive as yourself. As a rule, it does not give up easily.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Can we agree that "I" and "me" DO exist?

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Thu May 21, 2009 3:29 am

self-awareness is a potential within Awareness. Each of us is a manifestation of this potential. After experimenting with Awareness for a while, whether "I" and "me" do exist becomes insignificant. Contradicting positions co-exist within all possible thoughts. Positionality is a functional requirement for manifesting in the world of forms.

The real trick question is whether ego manifests in the world of formlessness. Many teachers in the awakening business probably say no. However, transcending the world forms is not the same as transcending the world of ego (or Lucifer). The post-adult I have the fortune to met taught me this. He also alluded the confrontation between Lucifer and Jesus described in the Gospels to make his point.

An example in history would be Muhammad. He transcend the world of forms like Ramana Haharshi at the time he dictated Koran; however, the ego manifestation in the world of formlessness promptly dropped him back to the world of forms. In certain sense, many teachers in the awakening business are manifestations of ego from the formless reality. Of course they can freely dance in this world of forms because they are formless in origin.

Humility before God beats all ego manifestations.

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Re: Can we agree that "I" and "me" DO exist?

Post by Marcel Franke » Thu May 21, 2009 9:58 am

>Can we agree that "I" and "me" DO exist?

It is just a matter of location.

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Re: Can we agree that "I" and "me" DO exist?

Post by am101171 » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:26 pm

I agree

i do not


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Re: Can we agree that "I" and "me" DO exist?

Post by lucy » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:51 am

I don't think we are questioning whether or not we exsist, but rather what is it that is exsisting. The little me or pure Consciousness.

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