Difficulties accepting PON

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HermitLoon
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by HermitLoon » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:35 pm

Great Stuff Ananda ! :)
Are you thoughts or the thinker of thoughts?
Neither one - and yet both.
"I am" (there is) the "Pure Awareness" within which the consciousness of both the thinker and the thoughts arises.

Peace
Peace

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Marcel Franke
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by Marcel Franke » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:02 pm

Yeh man, Ananda is right, you go search for it !
But remember,
dont ye start postin back until ye found that which hasnt been mentioned before,
otherwise we just woooont believe ye !
---ooOoo---

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mistral
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by mistral » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:56 pm

We can have all the difficulties we want in accepting the power of Now---however, we cannot be aware of any of those difficulties without being aware---and further more, we can only be aware Now. We can only be aware of our difficulties, questions, answers, debates, suggestions, insights, truths and untruths, Now.

We can intellectualize so much, but the Heart knows Something Wonderful Right Here and Now. The Heart is without question. My Heart tells me true--The Power of Now is in fact God, which is the only reality being this single and only Awareness I Am. The Power of Now which is The same as This Awareness I am, is the only Real Presence Here all along, all the while even as we debate whether there is a Now or not a Now, of if It has Power or does not---we ponder these ideas Now and As This Awareness that ponders---I see no other now or other awareness here-- We do what we do and think what we think always Now and you can quit reading PON and never come back to this website, and go for a lovely sail boat ride out across the lake today, however, you will never be really going anywhere else---There is no 'else-where' but Here as Awareness, This Awareness is your Identity, and you cannot avoid your own Identity. You will always be This One, The Awareness You Are, right here and now---and you will take it with you where you go, wherevery you are. Isn't that so Beautiful, anytime you want your prayer answered, you stop and notice It is Already Here and Answered because you are This that never dies or leaves or ever can be harmed, hurt, hidden, ruined, taken from you, lost---What a Living Miricle This LIfe Is.

You cannot ever be aware at any other time than now---even when you claim otherwise. Power, Light, Truth, All Encompassing Awareness, God-LIfe-Itself and Now are all synonomous, that is ‘why’ the Now is The Power because It is One and Only Reality you are; everlasting, without beginning--- the one and only Power of The Living Presence is Here and Now Already. No need to find It, It is your very Self.

Nothing, not one thing that is within this awareness, no matter how much power we wish to give the images within awareness, or how much power we may think 'something has'-- it is powerless over this Living Awareness-I-Am (you are).

God and Its all inclusive Awareness, is unpossessed awareness—There is nothing and no one who is separte from This Awareness, therefore there is not 'another' who can ever be the possessor of This Awareness, therefore nothing to get back to or leave from.

As my friend William Samuel put it " God is the one and only authority that blooms the bud, scatters the seed and flashes its Cosmic Light around the universe. And none of us has ever been unfaithful to this Divine Authority being Identity, nor “lapsed from the faith.” How, in God’s allness, can Identity lapse from Itself?

Much love to all, Mistral

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Ananda
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by Ananda » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:53 am

Lovely post, mistral :D

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Sighclone
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by Sighclone » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:41 am

How, in God’s allness, can Identity lapse from Itself?
How, indeed!

Thanks, mistral...

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

OneLove
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by OneLove » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:21 am

What makes us right and Invictus wrong?

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Ananda
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by Ananda » Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:25 am

Who said anything about right or wrong?

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Marcel Franke
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by Marcel Franke » Fri Jul 03, 2009 12:14 pm

Aristotle did.

And Mistral follows her Heart.
She is a woman.
---ooOoo---

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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by Sighclone » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:01 am

What makes us right and Invictus wrong?
Suffering.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

randomguy
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by randomguy » Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:26 pm

Is there really an "us" that excludes anybody else? What is categorizing this? What is judging suffering as wrong? Silly, isn't it?
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

Invictus
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by Invictus » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:29 am

Dear All,

Thank you for your comments! I'm sure that they contributed on some level to my realisation. I knew my ego was my sticky point, so I was watching a video from some guy who was talking about the matter. And he said that we were all born with self-esteem but somewhere along the line we got wounded by our social conditioning.
Example:
When we see an addvertisement it says "By buying this, you'll be more happy, and more individual, bla bla" - which sub-communicates that we are not happy were we are at, and that their is glory to be found in being "special".


And as kids we are sponges. Pure, innocent, sponges that ABSORD anything we come accross. And the message that we often get through media and other people (e.i. => social conditioning) is that we are not good enough where we are at right now, nor are we special enough.

And isn't that what the ego is all about? Does it not try to make us "special" (this includes the victim identity: e.i. I'm so much more UNLUCKY than anybody else!). And the ego then tells us that by being special we will be fulfilled, and happy - in fact ET's tells us that by believing what he says we will be fulfilled and happy.

And so you grow a whole new identity about "I'm happy where I'm at right now... I am my god essence." I've heard about many people that were still waiting for "enlightenement" after months and years of practice. But I'm very respectful of ET as I know it isn't easy to describe being in the "Now". And it must be even harder trying to teach it -his stask is far from easy. Telling people that they are "God's essence" is only bad in my eyes in the sense where they aren't identified with their problems anymore, but their now identified with something else. The ego changes identity, it doesn't die.

What I'm trying to say is that although you aren't identifying yourself to your old egoic self anymore, you are still identified with something else than yourself. It may not be your problems anymore. But you are still something else than YOURSELF. This is why I had such a hard time understanding ET.

My internal dialogue would go as such:
Me: "I am my god Essence. I am not you!" (You refering to me old egoic self)
Then the voice of my old egoic self you comes in and sais "Look at you, you're becoming totally schizophrenic. You should really drop ET and get real again."
Me: "I can see YOU, I now I'm in my "thinking mode" and I know you are just the ego. Therefore I have brought into the light like ET said. I know totally accept you as you are. Why won't you dissolve?"

Anyway... I got really confused sometimes. My brain would just keep on going and gain momentum.

But I think I now understand what was going on. I wasn't accepting my egoic self, I was trying to escape it by identifying to the "god essence". Which was basilcally creating another egoic self, and also creating a great deal of resistance along the way.

So was what worked for me (and I hope a people can get insight out of this):
Don't deny yourself. Don't try to change yourself.
Accept your goods sides, as much as your bad sides. Accept yourself as you are right NOW.
I find that to be the key to authenticity, self-esteem and wholeness.

I hope this was comprehensible :D

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Ananda
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by Ananda » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:13 pm

Hi there, allow me to respond to some of your post;

"in fact ET's tells us that by believing what he says we will be fulfilled and happy."

Eckhart never says this. Please provided a quote from his work in which he says that by believing what he says will lead to fulfillment and happiness. Fulfillment and happiness are never the aim or the point to his teachings, they may come but they will also go again.

" And so you grow a whole new identity about "I'm happy where I'm at right now... I am my god essence." I've heard about many people that were still waiting for "enlightenement" after months and years of practice. But I'm very respectful of ET as I know it isn't easy to describe being in the "Now". And it must be even harder trying to teach it"

How can it be hard to reach the now? You are here now, are you not? You are always here, it's effortless, so it's just a matter of recognising what's already the case.

"Telling people that they are "God's essence" is only bad in my eyes in the sense where they aren't identified with their problems anymore, but their now identified with something else. The ego changes identity, it doesn't die."

Who are you referring to when you say ' their now identified with something else'? The one who can identify with anything is unreal, you seem to confuse yourself with the unreal.


"What I'm trying to say is that although you aren't identifying yourself to your old egoic self anymore, you are still identified with something else than yourself. It may not be your problems anymore. But you are still something else than YOURSELF."

Again, the one who can identify with anything is unreal. That is not who you are. It is impossible to be anything other than yourself. Because you are that which you are.

"Me: "I am my god Essence. I am not you!" (You refering to me old egoic self)
Then the voice of my old egoic self you comes in and sais "Look at you, you're becoming totally schizophrenic. You should really drop ET and get real again."
Me: "I can see YOU, I now I'm in my "thinking mode" and I know you are just the ego. Therefore I have brought into the light like ET said. I know totally accept you as you are. Why won't you dissolve?"
"

All of this is thinking. You are neither thoughts nor the thinker of thoughts. None of this has anything at all to do with who you are.

The ego is not real. It never was real. There is no substance to it. You are not your thoughts, nor are you the one who thinks. You are not the one who identifies with thoughts or the body, because the one who can identify with thoughts and the body is itself an idea, a thought. You stand alone as yourself, you were never identified with anything else because you cannot be.

You cannot be anything other than yourself.
So, like you said, don't make any effort to be anything other than who you are. Don't try to be rid of the ego, don't try to attain a higher self, don't try to be free from thinking, or free from the body.

Hope this helps :)

randomguy
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by randomguy » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:52 pm

Invictus wrote:But I think I now understand what was going on. I wasn't accepting my egoic self, I was trying to escape it by identifying to the "god essence". Which was basilcally creating another egoic self, and also creating a great deal of resistance along the way.

So was what worked for me (and I hope a people can get insight out of this):
Don't deny yourself. Don't try to change yourself.
Accept your goods sides, as much as your bad sides. Accept yourself as you are right NOW.
I find that to be the key to authenticity, self-esteem and wholeness.

I hope this was comprehensible :D
:) Yes, when in doubt, accept all that awareness touches, now.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

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Sighclone
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by Sighclone » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:20 am

What is judging suffering as wrong?
Suffering is not right or wrong. Suffering is deep personal pain. It is also a choice. Self-realization ends it. There are apparently many portals. Several of them are mentioned in Gary Weber's "Happiness Beyond Thought." More are found in Eckhart Tolle's CD "Gateways to Now," more still are in Jac O'Keeffe's "Born to be Free." None are found in cognitive analysis and linguistic ping-pong.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Wings
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Re: Difficulties accepting PON

Post by Wings » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:17 am

Thinking about PON and ANE isn’t often anymore, in fact years of philosophizing, intellectualizing and more have taken a prolonged welcomed sabbatical. The gurus, teachers, sophists, and mental giants who I aspired to as decorators of the house I dwelled in are NOW, there but have sort of receded into the woodwork, grown silent but still linger from time to time.

My house, my dwellings are NOW very simple, the house decorators (teachers, gurus and more) which adorned my walls with affirmations, profound quotes and steering verse is like an island onto itself which brought in a wonderful climate well needed. What happened, I don’t exactly know. Maybe its just that awareness sets in and tells me that what I am doing is just what I’m supposed to be doing – living simply without the overwhelming need to question why, why and more.

I’ve grown to like and cherish the feeling of comfort “being” of essence. I can’t describe it, nor do I aspire to do so, it just is. It’s as individual and delightful as the mixed berry’s I enjoy putting in my crêpes for breakfast, from time to time. Vaguely I remember the ET’s story of the old-old man who was asked questions and his response was routinely, “Maybe so, Maybe so,” or something along those lines. Please feel free to correct this story, perhaps you can recall better than I can, if you so chose.

Nonetheless, from time to time I read the abundance of words, and feel the gravity of the energy so many intelligent people on this forum aspire to be and are. So many words, so many thoughts, so much teachings on learning how to reduce thought by so many, so many, many….

One day, some time ago, I guess I just lost the energy to want to search anymore and something happened, I found I didn’t have to look anymore. I began to just listen to the sounds of the day, the whispers of the night and feel the sense of my heart just being who I’ve always been, just me, warts and all…. Yes, I surrendered to more smiles and simplicity…. There is no perfection here because frankly I don’t know what that is but I do know about what time I get tired at night and yes, I just curl-up and go to sleep and rest….. Two centavos…

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