Know Who You Are

A place for anything that doesn't fit into the existing forums
enigma
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by enigma » Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:59 am

Satsang with Donald Trump. Now there's an interesting mental image. :shock:

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mistral
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by mistral » Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:51 am

You know, it's always so weird how others 'hear us'---It really takes Something very special to communicate 'ones heart' and then have that 'heart's vision' understood.-- I certainly do not have it, Whatever It is---But thank you for giving me a place to get it right.

And so--Guess what--- I must correct something---

---I don't worry about "residual ego" at all---not one iota---

Actually I Love and Cherish the ego and I have often written here to others "you do not have to get rid of ego' (that is what I've discovered so I am sticking with it, until I find out otherwise)---

I have seen that ego is divine and if we understand that It belongs to God and God Alone, all the better--- In fact there is only One Ego and there is no 'other' separate little egos that can stand between you and God, or Realization.

And also, personally, I like a good strong burst of indignation---I like anger, I like Honest Anger that clears away the lie (the lies perpetuating falshoods in a belief in a separate identity from Life that is being This Awareness I Am).

I say my 'me' belongs to God and there is no other 'besides' this One Living Presence that is being 'all things', thoughts, ideas, and even the false sense of separation, all belongs to God Alone, One. Residual ego or full on ego, I am not concerned about it.

I say again---The thing I do not like is dishonesty---and I was saying that there have been some here--Not here any more---But, if I can trust my intuition, and I ususally can, they were just being dishonest to themselves, not to me---dishonest with God. That I do not like. They could spew the 'right non-dual' lingo, but the Heart was not In Love with Life/Truth/This Living One/God.

I like egos, I like my ego, I like your ego--- I am never going to try to get rid of my ego-- and I like Real Honesty, the kind of Honesty that is Truth Lived as best 'I can' which often means knowing what humility is when we experience it and knowing what I cannot lie about to God.

I found that it is ego that leads us through the cleansing fires of Life, to where one is bent down on his knees in surrender and must finally admit the Allness of God and God and Alone.

I shall always love ego, and I have no intention of ever being without this most precious of gifts.

Now, I share this because I want others to know that ego is not the evil culprit, it is the mistaken belief that there is an ego separate from God that can stand between with you and God. Never was there such an ego that is separate from God. And That is as honest as I can find the words for It.

Mistral
Last edited by mistral on Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:36 am, edited 2 times in total.

the key master
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by the key master » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:09 am

Interesting discussion everyone.

Enigma said,
I suggest it is seeking another 'mind object', namely the experience of pure Awareness. The next question is, is the experience of pure Awareness, Self realization? I suggest it is not.
I feel as though the discussion got a little skewed(although interesting no less) after this, and wanted to pick it back up here.

The "enlightened mind" can remember the experience of Pure Awareness, crude as that remembrance may be.

A question one might find worth asking with the mind, what thoughts am I thinking to drag me out of the experience of Pure Awareness? Oh yes Im enlightened, but I want to be with her/him, do this, have that. Those wants themselves, perfectly ok. As Maharshi states, without desire, you are dead. But if the mind is utilizing desire/fear to tell stories which drag you into a thought/emotion cycle based on separate self you lose touch with not only Awareness you lose touch with Essence. The Infinite Source is utilizing Love to give you emotions based on your illusions. Love is showing you the way home. Its teaching you that you aren't the person. Its letting you know that until you give up your illusions your thought cycles will linger even if the body doesn't. The One moves as it moves. All talk is utter nonsense.

maarten
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by maarten » Sat Oct 31, 2009 2:36 pm

My take: although the mind cannot rest in awareness, the mind can become quiet so that we experience awareness.
If we identify with the mind we may then come to believe that the mind is resting.

Thank you webwanderer for mentioning thoughts AND feelings.
When the mind is empty of thoughts, no emotion can emerge either, I think I see that now.

Thank you mistral and andy, I am enjoying your posts.
Regarding the use of words such as 'you' and 'I', I like the saying that "a yogi still uses categories
and concepts, but is not trapped in them".

I am new to the forum, and enjoying it.
In the last weeks I have started to notice an internal silence and relaxation,
and I have already found very good pointers on the forum on how to explore it more (or better: how to avoid placing obstacles).
To all people who post, for me: the shorter the better!

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Webwanderer
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:56 pm

Welcome maarten, your contributions are encouraged. Enjoy the forum.

WW

Peaceman
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by Peaceman » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:58 am

"Instead of a practice of resting where one does not want to rest, I suggest noticing that whether or not mind rests is really irrelevant. If you were mind then of course it would be important, but you are not and so it is irrelevant. Could it be that 'something' is at rest all the time regardless of whether or not mind is at rest?" enigma
Yes I think it could be, and thats the whole point of it really! Am with you totally enigma. :)

enigma
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by enigma » Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:36 am

The "enlightened mind" can remember the experience of Pure Awareness, crude as that remembrance may be.
I guess I'm not sure what is meant by "enlightened mind', so I could use some clarification there. Assuming it means something like the mind through which the enlightenment event occurred, or some such, I have a few other questions.

* What is "Pure Awareness"?
* What is it that experiences pure awareness?
* If it can be remembered, it must have been forgotten.
* When was it known?
* Is it knowledge that can be remembered and fogotten?
* If it is knowledge, is that different from experience?
* Does any of this have anything to do with Truth or Self Realization?

HermitLoon
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by HermitLoon » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:27 pm

HermitLoon thinks:
1. There is "Pure Awareness"- "an Observer"(the no-thing that mind wants to be some-thing).
2. There is Consciousness - "I"ness.
3. There is a mind/body Human Experience - language, thoughts, memory, experience.

On investigation 3 is only 2 .
2 is only 1.
3 and 2 are describable, fleeting, changeable.
1 is not.

All is 1 and 1 is All
That's HL's story.

Peace
Peace

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Mason
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by Mason » Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:56 pm

Impressive posts by e-man and HL...

In one of his lesser heralded teachings Buddha had a list of the Four Imponderables which were said to be topics which were impossible to fathom.

I often wish that he'd expanded the list to Five Imponderables and included the True Self Vs. No Self debate as well. It's been a real central and sometimes devisive topic in spirituality over the past 2000 years.

It is of note that some of the finest minds in history have tackled this very debate. Heavy hitters such as Nagarjuna, Buddhaghosa, Vasubandhu, and Asanga have all tried their hands at solving this.

In my online-dharma experience True Self Vs. No Self is a great topic, but only as long as the debate is not taken personally. When discussing this one we'd probably do well to realize that whatever the ultimate answer is, we won't solve it here.

enigma
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by enigma » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:28 am

Tru
e Self Vs. No Self is a great topic, but only as long as the debate is not taken personally.
That's pretty funny.:)
And it's actually the side of the debate I would personally stand on. It's the whole idea of the person that has to be abandoned, right? In the absence of that idea, the issue of 'Self' would never arise so that it could be debated.

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Mason
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by Mason » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:07 pm

enigma wrote:It's the whole idea of the person that has to be abandoned, right? In the absence of that idea, the issue of 'Self' would never arise so that it could be debated.
I'd say that type of personhood is more an obvious arising that is accepted by both camps of the debate.

To me the argument is more a matter of if there is a True Self that can never be eraticated or abandoned, or there is No Self at all.

But hey, I ain't gettin my finger prints on at train wreck... If there is a True Self, it exists beyond (or before) the sense of self that would argue about it. And conversly, if there's No Self, there's nothin to argue about. ;)

Ultimately there must be an answer and that's why "No Self vs True Self" is not one of Buddha's 4 imponderables, but that answer won't be touched by the intelect, and I know from reading your post that you already know that enigma. That's basically what you are saying.

I just wanted to add, that if "No Self vs True Self" is not one of the Buddha's 4 imponderables, he could have at least cut us a break and labled it a topic which was particularly immune to arguments from any particular point of view, even an enlightened one such as yours.

Peaceman
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by Peaceman » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:35 pm

Can I post a "silly " answer to enigma's questions? :idea:

What is "Pure Awareness"?......Nothing
* What is it that experiences pure awareness?.......Itself
* If it can be remembered, it must have been forgotten. .....It is neither remembered nor forgotten
* When was it known?....It has always been
* Is it knowledge that can be remembered and fogotten?.....No
* If it is knowledge, is that different from experience?....It is neither
* Does any of this have anything to do with Truth or Self Realization?....No

chad
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Re: Know Who You Are

Post by chad » Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:17 pm

Webwanderer wrote:If one lost the ability to think, yet were clearly aware and intelligent, what would that be like?
I get the feeling that's what animals are like, sounds fun :D
what, at this moment, is lacking?

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