What is this?

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gza
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What is this?

Post by gza » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:07 pm

I've been reading a lot of osho for the past month, and constantly witnessing body and mind. A few days ago, I read something by Osho that talked about how witnessing is a knack that requires no effort, but effort is necessary to learn that when you use effort, you fail. After that, it hit me. And this is really hard to put into words... I'll try

Before, I would remember to be aware of my breath, for example, and I would notice my breathing from then. Now, I notice myself remember to be aware of my breath, and I would notice the breath after that.

The effort is gone so I am no longer doing anything, and just allowing and trusting things to work out on their own.

Is this a phase that some of the spiritual masters talk about? I am curious as to what is the next step, and a description of what this process is.

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Marcel Franke
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Re: What is this?

Post by Marcel Franke » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:12 pm

> I am curious as to what is the next step, and a description of what this process is.

It is an adventure.
---ooOoo---

randomguy
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Re: What is this?

Post by randomguy » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:55 pm

gza wrote:The effort is gone so I am no longer doing anything, and just allowing and trusting things to work out on their own.
There is no next step, unless one is imagined to be.
(double true on MF's post "it's an adventure").
Love the title of the thread, gza, one of the best questions out there. :)

Regards
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

gza
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Re: What is this?

Post by gza » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:58 pm

thanks lol.

I'm not sure if I agree, though. I mean, I had to learn to witness my body before I was good at witnessing my thoughts, and it took practice witnessing my thoughts to get where I'm at now.

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Mason
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Re: What is this?

Post by Mason » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:27 pm

gza wrote:I'm not sure if I agree, though. I mean, I had to learn to witness my body before I was good at witnessing my thoughts, and it took practice witnessing my thoughts to get where I'm at now.
Ramana Maharshi said it so well; I can't say it half as good as he did, so I'm just gonna steal it... :D

"If we clear one doubt another doubt will arise and there will be no end of doubts. But, if by seeking the doubter, the doubter is found to be really non­existent, then all doubts will cease." ~Ramana.

gza, keep in mind that what you are looking for is found in the doing, not by the doing. It is beyond both effort and effortlessness.

Right now you're a somebody who believes that he can realize he's nobody. That's not gonna happen. Examine the one who's expecting to find enlightment, he's just the imaginary friend of what he's expecting. Examine the one who's examining, he's just the imaginary friend of what he's examining. If there's nowhere left to go and no one wearing the shoes, it can't possibly be put in terms of taking the next step, and if you can't possibly take the next step, I guess that means you've stopped.

:wink:

Plorel
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Re: What is this?

Post by Plorel » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:59 pm

> If we clear one doubt another doubt will arise and there will be no end of doubts. But, if by seeking the doubter, the doubter is found to be really non­>existent, then all doubts will cease

That is beautiful
Who am I without my story?

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Ananda
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Re: What is this?

Post by Ananda » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:09 am

So it has gone from witnessing the body to witnessing thoughts. To witnessing thoughts to witnessing breath. Now go from witnessing the breath to witnessing the witness. Just recognise yourself, your 'isness'. Locate yourself with your awareness. Notice the Seer! Nothing can be easier than to recognise what you are! There doesn't need to be any more practices if you just simply recognise the Self. Self awareness is the perfectly effortless meditation, and nothing else needs to be done with it. The whole is realized if you just see what you already are.

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Marcel Franke
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Re: What is this?

Post by Marcel Franke » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:30 am

GZA:
> I'm not sure if I agree, though.
> I mean, I had to learn to witness my body before I was good at witnessing my thoughts,
> and it took practice witnessing my thoughts to get where I'm at now.

Very good.
Dont agree.
Rajneesh became Rajneesh, GZA becomes GZA.
---ooOoo---

rodriguez_88
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Re: What is this?

Post by rodriguez_88 » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:32 pm

Man, I gotta say, Marcel, Ananda...

I don't ever post on here, but I read what you guys have to say, and I am honored to be reading both of your postings. They are both insightful and lucid. Thanks. There are others here too, just too many to mention.

But back to the posting, I'm going through the exact same thing GZA. I'm starting to realize that there is no higher level, this ain"t a game. LOL Journey over. I'm gonna give away all my spiritual books, prob by this week. Wish me luck all!

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Sighclone
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Re: What is this?

Post by Sighclone » Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:44 pm

This is kind of a technical comment. Ramana is quite clear in several places about linking breathing and thinking. I have found that when thinking ends, breathing spontaneously deepens, or sometimes there are three or four "quick stops" in one long inhale for me. It is like automatic pranayama.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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