Can NLP work for changing all positive thoughts to negative?

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Quinn
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Re: Can NLP work for changing all positive thoughts to negative?

Post by Quinn » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:22 pm

:D

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gen6
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Re: Can NLP work for changing all positive thoughts to negative?

Post by gen6 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:05 pm

Sighclone wrote:gen6 -

Yes, we probably are using "mind" differently...sorry. I'm using Eckhart's definition which is the thinking faculty. Minds contain, discover, manipulate thoughts and ideas, concepts, and identities based on ideas and abstractions. They learn and process languages, do math, they remember stuff, they forget stuff. They can create and they can receive intuitive input. They create the egoic sense of self, constructed from many varieties of "I-thoughts" including "I have a good mind." The experience of the mind has a natural limitation when it comes to awakening -- awakening does not happen to it. It is a powerful but limited tool.

Ken Wilber and others use the phrase "Big Mind" to include the capacity for awakening out of the conditioned self created by identification with the thinking mind. That's too bad, because we start talking about "mind" from different perspectives. Maybe that's what you mean.

Andy
Thank you, sorry for the slight agression in my previous post , I guess I was fighting for justice ( synchronize the gap between what I read compared with my beliefs) :lol:
Acutally I read a lot about this. The mind is a subtle topic. Acutally it's a very complex topic, I'll keep researching and thinking about it.
Even with your definitions (Eckhart's definitions) is not entirely correct. You say, mind forgets stuff. Thing is that there are a conscious and unconscious processes happing in your brain every single second. You forget a lot of things while not being conscious about it, this puts this forgetting process in the unconscious brain processes category, which means that you can forget something while you think your mind is still and you're swimming in the ultimate bliss and if mind includes forgetting as a process, it becomes controversary to say that your mind should be still to experience awakening. What I'm saying is that when you are experiencing awakening to say that your mind is still is not the most correct way to express what is happening, because still some things are happening and the mind includes them. When you say the mind should be still may be you want to say that you shouldn't consciously think? I think we can say that, when the voice in you has stopped and you're not imagining something or thinking with words or anything, just gazing and feeling pleasure, that is ,,when the mind is still,, but still that is just some part of the mind that is still, others are not. But it's not a big thing, it's just concepts :D
I personally prefer to think that the awakening happens somewhere in the brain and may be it has nothing to do with the mind as we now it or may be it has something to do with the mind as we now it. Nobody knows. But I'm sure it happens somewhere in the brain and without a properly functioning brain, you can simply forget about awakening, bliss etc, no matter how hard you try :)
Live as if nothing and everything matters at the same time.

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Re: Can NLP work for changing all positive thoughts to negative?

Post by Sighclone » Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:27 am

There is no doubt that neural pathways are affected by awakening. And it is likely that they continue to transform as the awakening "goes deeper." Adya is probably the best notetaker in his processes, since there was not a single 'magical moment' for him, but rather three distinct events and lots of evolution after his experience was abiding. And all along the way, I'm sure the brain responded with its own shift.

And then there is the Jill Bolte Taylor record. I think we can drop the dispute about the mind, since defining it could take dozens of essays. In this forum, for convenience, and because it is a Tolle-based forum, we are probably going to continue to use mind as he, somewhat narrowly perhaps, but consistently, defines it. I am, for sure.

Because my experience, and that reported by many others is that the big kenshos and satoris and shifts seem to occur within experience, but outside of the common experience of mental activity.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Lee88
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Re: Can NLP work for changing all positive thoughts to negat

Post by Lee88 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:23 pm

I was about to start a topic about NLP but I did a search first. Old topic I know.

I'm In the process of reading "A New Earth" which I think is awesome. First of all I'd like to address some of the ideas already shared.

- Awakening is to stop the mind thinking??

From my understanding being in the Present Moment is not about Stopping Thinking but to Dis-Identify with the thoughts. Eckhart repeats this idea though out his teachings. Many others teachers, philosophers, meditation teachers teach this also. It's not about Blocking out thoughts, its about letting them pass and not Identifying with them.


- Reading and Learning Eckharts books is reprogramming the mind??

If these concepts are new to you then yes it will be reprogramming the mind. But Eckhart makes it clear and repeats over and over again that the teachings aren't aimed about just giving you more concepts to store in the mind. The idea is to start or speed up the process of Awakening. If you read all the teachings you may KNOW yourself as Conciousness CONCEPTUALLY. But to FEEL and REALLY know is different.

Eckhart gives an example with Honey. You can break down the Honey and examine it scientifically, know what its made out of , how its formed, where it comes from etc.... You can write a PHD about it, you can write a poem about. You can KNOW everything about it. But to taste it is the REALLY KNOW it. So can THINK all you want about it, THINK about all it's components etc... but Do you REALLY KNOW IT if you haven't tasted it??

They say you can't find creativity by THINKING about it. However by getting into Presence you can have Presence INSPIRED thoughts. I think the same goes for Awakening. THINKING your way to Awakening?? Like Echkart talks about- You might just create this AWAKENED EGO. I Know more than you..I'm more spiritual...

Now My Question is about NLP:

- Has Anyone Studied NLP??

I was looking into a course in NLP just as another tool to use. I would like to become some sort of Life coach in the Future so I'm looking into various courses. I Briefly looked in NLP due to a suggestion from someone. NLP is the practice of re-programming the mind by CHANGING your Thoughts - However I know that the one of the main idea that Eckhart wants to get across is to DIS-IDENTIFY with thoughts all together.

So I was wondering it learning NLP would be of any value or will learning NLP conflict with the Dis-Identification with Thoughts?? I DO know that in this although we are not our thoughts, we are not our body, etc... However in this Physical Dimension some of these things are useful for us to Function. Like even though we are not our bodies it is wise to learn about our body so we can take care of our health ( if we want to be healthy) and it is useful to learn about the mind as well since we have one.

OR

Is it wise to ALLOW Presence into your LIfe first and Let it guide you in areas like Physical health, Psychology, etc..

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Re: Can NLP work for changing all positive thoughts to negat

Post by Sighclone » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:11 pm

I'd like to start by referring you to Gary Weber's blog post on thinking:

http://www.happinessbeyondthought.blogs ... ts-of.html

Gary is in the vanguard of scientists and neurophysiologists who are examining nonduality from a clinical perspective, using the latest fMRIs and experience of long-time meditators and explorers of consciousness. I would suggest you direct questions to him, and perhaps bring his answers back to the forum. Gary is a friend, and author of "Happiness Beyond Thought." He is a long-time meditator, scholar, PhD, expert in manufacturing and business, and about as awake and clear as anyone I know. And he is the first to tell you he is not perfect.

But he is the best source, in my opinion, for answers in this area – he is always very current. Other blogposts at his site discuss this also.

* * * * *
AWAKENED EGO
There is no such thing. There is not actually such a thing as an awakened person. This is summarized well by Suzuki Roshi: "Ultimately there is no such thing as an enlightened person. There is only enlightenment."

RE NLP: Thoughts which are uncomfortable can arise...and will arise, at varying levels of spiritual development...and certainly also in me. I use an NLP-derived technique on them (and thanks also to Byron Katie -- see her "the work" technique) which goes kind of like this:

Let’s say that I’m uncomfortable with a thought: “I might fail this examination.” I do a mental exercise – purely mechanical (it is like the “turn-around” part of BKs “the work”, explained in her fine book “Loving What Is.”) I dissect the thought and re-word it: “Failing this examination is bad for me.” I then ask myself, “How would I feel if I believed that failing this examination could actually be good for me?” A few supporting thoughts might arise – “It is good because I know I really needed to do something else with my life.” “If I fail this examination, it is because I have not studied and the failing will serve to remind me, in a very significant way, to improve my study habits.” Etc.

Just the act of “taking the other point of view” is a momentary re-programming of a negative thought-stream…it forces a temporary, if even false, mental process into consciousness, and seems to enervate the negative pathway.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Can NLP work for changing all positive thoughts to negat

Post by Lee88 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:20 am

When I said "awakened ego" I meant a person who knows spiritual concepts, and identities themselves as this person who is now more "spiritual" as a result of knowing these spiritual concepts. Concepts are nothing but ideas in the mind. A person can re-program their mind by changing their thoughts about who they are- they can tell you all about the ego and how they are Pure and Divine Conciousness. But that doesn't make them anymore awake then you. They might just attached themselves to this title of Awakened which then it becomes another Ego identity.

Like your quote says " there is no such thing as a enlightened person" but there are many "enlightened egos" because they think knowing concepts means truly Feeling and Being them . My point being Thinking is not going to bring you closer to Awakening. Thinking like Seeking implies that it is not already Here and Now so you have to go and look for it. And that you'll find it soon enough (which makes it a future event ). Which means you won't find it cause there is no such thing as the Future. The Future is another concept in the mind and then you go full circle and return the mind.

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Re: Can NLP work for changing all positive thoughts to negat

Post by Lee88 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:37 am

As for NLP, yes I think it can be a useful tool. By changing thoughts we can change our reality. thinking is a function , like speaking and moving. Thoughts, words and action should not be discarded unless we want to become vert stagnant . However Thoughts,words and action can either come from a place of Conciousness/Love or from a place of Fear/Ego.

Being in a place of Conciousnes will allow Conciousness to flow into your thoughts, words and action. In regards to NLP I believe being in a conscious place will first of all make you aware of 'negtive' thoughts, accept them then take inspired action to change them into uplifting thoughts aligned with your Being. Cause even If you change your thoughts, how about if you are just chaining from a limiting thought to a thought of arrogance or anger ( it may be a 'positive' thought in the eye of the ego)

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Re: Can NLP work for changing all positive thoughts to negat

Post by tod » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:59 pm

Lee88 wrote:Being in a place of Conciousnes will allow Conciousness to flow into your thoughts, words and action. In regards to NLP I believe being in a conscious place will first of all make you aware of 'negtive' thoughts, accept them then take inspired action to change them into uplifting thoughts aligned with your Being.
Perhaps "being in a place of consciousness" is knowing that, no matter what place one thinks or believes one is, there is consciousness; it being seen that whatever experience is happening, that that is happening to a thought to be entity in a thought to be realm.

Perhaps it is seen that the experience of being human in this world is the experience of consciousness evolving; of conscious imagination being the form whereby consciousness imagines itself in form to 'see what happens'. It appears that consciousness does not know the form of what is going to happen, but it foresees the outcome; the human experience being the unconscious 'method' consciousness is using to gain a fuller understanding of itself.

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Re: Can NLP work for changing all positive thoughts to negat

Post by Mamaseeker » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:22 am

Just read about NLP and I think I belong in the skeptics bandwagon. The placebo effects sure do work sometimes, but not all the time and not for everyone.

I can relate it with an experience I had with something known as Oneness Blessing. It's an act that happens in a "oneness blessing" gathering where the oneness blessing giver( certified from the Oneness University in India) gives a blessing to people by placing their hands on the head of each person gathered for a few minutes. I had this blessing given to me two times so far, and the first time I felt something profound happen. I teared up and after the blessing felt light as a feather. But the second blessing wasn't so special at all. I did not feel a thing, and came out a skeptic. Maybe because before I went to the second blessing, I had researched about this Oneness University in India and came to read about a lot of fraudulent practices with people associated with running that place and so on. So, I already had a biased view of the blessing givers even though all three of them were very nice people genuinely working towards a greater cause. It was just that my mind wasn't open to it.There were other people there who had been blessing receivers from multiple times, and just felt the bliss all over again. They were programmed to think that every blessing receiving experience would result in them feeling something special and I bet they were unaware of any shady dealing of the Oneness University.

What do you have to say about this?

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