Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

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eckhart01
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by eckhart01 » Sat May 29, 2010 1:42 pm

There is no question that the majority (if not all) of people on this board are still identified to an extent with their mind. Yet this is a spiritual awakening forum, where people congregate to share experiences and give advice to others. If we were all enlightened, this board would have no members. There would be no reason for anyone to be here.

mus3cho
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by mus3cho » Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:27 am

Imagine that. I can't even conceive it. Not that I wouldn't love it, but that would really be something.

mus3cho

mus3cho
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by mus3cho » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:17 pm

I often ponder this forum throughout my mental wonderings and imagine myself formulating verbalizations of all kinds while holding the idea that once I open my mouth, or put fingers to the keyboad, I have allowed "the ego" to take the podium.

That goes hand in hand with the saying "those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know". (I hope I am accurate in quoting that).

Anyway, unspoken "ideas", "thoughts", "opinions" seem to be in the realm of the gap between my thinking and my being thought. The ego grabs them and throws them out there and then takes credit for them, as if to say "yay, me".

Guily on all counts, here. :D

larrystorey1964
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by larrystorey1964 » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:07 am

I understand what you mean mus3cho, that's why I listen to the silence between the posts as much as the posts....... :D

mus3cho
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by mus3cho » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:05 am

It's interesting to compare how many views a topic gets to how many actual responses are posted. Is that part of the "silence"?

Thunder2008
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by Thunder2008 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:17 pm

If we didn't have an ego how would we be involved in spirituality?
If we didn't have an ego how would we recognize and feel the difference in spirituality?

Spirituality and ego go together.....

I see the ego as a portal to Spirituality. So I don't quite get it why we shouldn't speak about it.....

:?: ? :roll: ??

mus3cho
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by mus3cho » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:54 pm

I don't believe there's anything "wrong " with talking about it. Really who is defining "wrong" anyway? Talking about it is an iterative process.

James
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by James » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:48 am

I don't think Eckhart meant specifically that "you can't talk about this", that's probably taken out of context. He probably meant that verbalizing it is difficult, or that speaking about it can cater to the ego in some cases, but not always, it depends on the intention behind it.

There is no right or wrong way, there is only what appears to be True in one's experience. And that may be subject to change. There are no rules.

Some actions or activities may come to be seen as unnecessary or no longer ring true. But who can say how it should be for another. And even those things that are not true for the person, the things they may continue to do, are part of the learning experience to come to know what is true. "We come to Nirvana through Samsara". And Nirvana is not a state or experience, the way I see it, it simply means "ceasing"... ceasing to do or believe what is not true.
Talking about it is an iterative process.
Yes it seems that way for many, the repetition may be a helpful reminder. And then at other times not talking may be a helpful reminder.

I love this quote: "I think you're all enlightened, until you open your mouths." -Shunryu Suzuki
But this too can be misconstrued, I think what he meant is that the idea of separation is preceded by verbalization or word thoughts. Or vice versa, the idea of separation results in thinking and verbalizing. But it's not the talking itself that is the issue.
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

KPO
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by KPO » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:16 am

It 's not just "talking" that brings in Egos. All those reading a thread who are mentally taking sides are taking an egoic stance just the same as if they had posted their thoughts.
However there is an alternative.
I have on six ocasions recently, found myself, unintentially, reading through a thread as a totally neutral observer. Absolutely no Ego. Each time I find myself sinking into a
state of deep presence and thinking becomes too much of an effort and i'm looking blankly at the computor. At this point I have a choice; I can either force myself to think
and come out of "it" (whatever "it" is) or switch off and remain in "it". I naturally choose the later.

I don't know why this happens except that it seems to be with non-controversial threads. I start the thread in the normal way. I've got to the point where I can recognize it starting
to happen.

The reason I post this now is because it happened with this thread. I've come back on to post it.

Has it happened to anyone else?

Unfortunately I don't think you can do it intentially, but I might be wrong.

James
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by James » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:11 pm

That's a good observation KPO.

I've found It's often easier to detect ego-ing in others than in oneself. Although in time I've found It becomes more apparent in myself, quicker and more readily noticed, and thus it does not last, it's more like a temptation. It's only egoic sense that opposes and resists egoic sense in self and others... it's an ironic conundrum, like those chinese finger traps, the more one resists, the more caught we are. When not resisted the issue falls away.

Reading with a neutral perspective is a good way of putting it, and that really applies to all aspects of life, the ego-ing is apparent everywhere in the world, but rather than seeing it as a problem to engage or oppose it can be seen for what it is, allowed and accepted... After all It's what's happening, that's how Life is appearing, until it no longer does.
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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Cheshirecat
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by Cheshirecat » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:37 pm

I just moved to this site. I moved from the "survivers of infidelity" site. That being said, I find this site very uplifting... egos and all. There might be some ego expansion here but the pain bodies don't seem to be quite as heavy. :wink:
If you see me before I get back....ask me to wait. Cheshire Cat

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Webwanderer
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:32 pm

Welcome Cheshire, glad you found us. There's nothing wrong with a good ego - so long as one knows it for what it is, it can teach us a lot. Enjoy the forum.

WW

mus3cho
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by mus3cho » Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:21 pm

I don't think ET meant can't as in prohibited. I percieve it in the context of the entire phrase "can't talk about it without the ego getting involved " or whatever that ultimately said. Something to that effect. I like the quote "I think you're all enlightened until you open your mouths". I laugh until I cry.
So I am not existing as such so what I say means nothing which is actually a relief. "Dust in the wind"
Words are forms. Talk is made up of words: a form within a form.

KPO
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by KPO » Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:15 pm

I refer here back to my previous post on this thread

First of all, thank you James.

I am re-reading Tolle's PTPON and I read something of interest (well to me anyway) in the Introduction, which I previously missed. Tolle is here referring to that book.

I quote:
"Many of these passages are particularly suitable for meditative reading. When you practice meditative reading, you do not read primarily to gather new information,but to enter a different state on consciousness as you read. This is why you can re-read the same passage many times and every time it looks fresh and new."

Which explains to me my experience. The guy's amazing.

Wesley
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Re: Tolle was right, you can't talk about this...

Post by Wesley » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:32 pm

Webwanderer wrote:There's nothing wrong with a good ego - so long as one knows it for what it is, it can teach us a lot.
WW
This is interesting. But Tolle does not say this at all.

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