Suffering

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runstrails
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Suffering

Post by runstrails » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:28 am

Currently there is tremendous suffering, some of it might be self-created from allowing mind to wander, but its happening nevertheless. Most times there is a clear sense that it’s all happening within awareness. When life gets out of control, comes the great realization that control is an illusion.

Most importantly, there is great humility and surrender. It’s like the outer layer of separateness has been removed and there is a deeper connection with life and with other forms. There is clarity too, the fantasies of mind are so apparent as they weave their tales of fear.

Awakening does nothing ‘for you’ in the world of form. It does not get 'you' anything. Look at Jesus—enlightened but then died by crucifixion. There must clearly have been physical suffering for him, but I wonder if there was any mental suffering on his part when it happened? likely not.

I like smileyjen’s notion that suffering in form allows love (what you truly are) to grow and then be experienced by that form (of course I may have totally misinterpreted her words!).

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Re: Suffering

Post by mmy » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:01 am

Sometimes those who have known great suffering also know great love and compassion.

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern."
-Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

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Marcel Franke
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Re: Suffering

Post by Marcel Franke » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:03 pm

> Currently there is tremendous suffering

Physical sensation ?
---ooOoo---

runstrails
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Re: Suffering

Post by runstrails » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:57 pm

Yes, Marcel, the suffering includes physical sensations like tightness in stomach, inability to eat very much, insomnia, the usual conditioning that comes with worry and stress :(

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Re: Suffering

Post by karmarider » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:14 pm

runstrails wrote:Currently there is tremendous suffering, some of it might be self-created from allowing mind to wander, but its happening nevertheless. Most times there is a clear sense that it’s all happening within awareness. When life gets out of control, comes the great realization that control is an illusion.
What has helped me most during those times is the ability to release (http://www.beyond-karma.com/how-to/how- ... s-release/. There are other release methods like Sedona, EFT, mc2, Byron Katie...)

runstrails wrote: Most importantly, there is great humility and surrender. It’s like the outer layer of separateness has been removed and there is a deeper connection with life and with other forms. There is clarity too, the fantasies of mind are so apparent as they weave their tales of fear.

Awakening does nothing ‘for you’ in the world of form. It does not get 'you' anything. Look at Jesus—enlightened but then died by crucifixion. There must clearly have been physical suffering for him, but I wonder if there was any mental suffering on his part when it happened? likely not.
My experience has been that I have had in the past the tendency to fall back to these platitudes. It isn't that these are not true--from very direct experience, all these are true, humility, surrender, awakening is not about you, it does not get anything for you etc.

But it has been my experience that I've had had a tendency to come to quick mental agreement and when I do that there is no more wisdom. It took some experience to allow the suffering, rather than quickly look for memorized antidotes.

Tolle said somewhere (paraphrasing), that this maybe be true, but is it true for you?

Adyashanti has a good video about this, I'll to find it.

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Re: Suffering

Post by runstrails » Wed Nov 17, 2010 5:18 pm

Thanks, mmy. I agree that there is such a grace in suffering--that is completely rejected by western society.

Thanks, Kr. Yes, I agree that suffering should be allowed completely and not resisted or escaped. The humility that accompanies it is indeed one of the most genuine feelings there is.

the key master
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Re: Suffering

Post by the key master » Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:37 pm

What is good?
Currently there is tremendous suffering, some of it might be self-created from allowing mind to wander, but its happening nevertheless. Most times there is a clear sense that it’s all happening within awareness. When life gets out of control, comes the great realization that control is an illusion.
There is tremendous suffering, which is arising because of what you are not. Whenever the mind is striving for control, the underlying issue is typically some fear of emotional hurt. Even if there is a "thought created scenario", such as losing your job, house, relationship, whatever, the fear ultimately stems not from the thought of what might happen, but from the emotional pain which would be experienced if what might happen actually came true.

In seeing this, in recognizing how and why the mind does what it does, a deeper understanding of one's own thought tendencies can take place. I like to call this "little self" inquiry. Its about watching the mind, learning from the mind, learning from and about what we are not.

Once we see what the mind is running from, we can then make the conscious choice to open up to that. We invite the potential emotional pain into the infinite array of experiences that future may hold, which allows us to reconnect with what we timelessly are. We don't stop taking action, we simply stop depending on results.

Here is something from Krishnamurti on the subject,

"Meditation demands an astonishingly alert mind; meditation is the understanding of the totality of life in which every form of fragmentation has ceased. Meditation is not control of thought, for when thought is controlled it breeds conflict in the mind, but when you understand the structure and origin of thought, which we have already been into, then thought will not interfere. That very understanding of the structure of thinking is its own discipline which is meditation.


Meditation is to be aware of every thought and every feeling, never to say it is right or wrong but just to watch it and move with it. In that watching you begin to understand the whole movement of thought and feeling. And out of this awareness comes silence. Silence put together by thought is stagnation, is dead, but the silence which comes when thought has understood its own beginning, the nature of itself, understood how all thought is never free but always old-this silence is meditation in which the meditator is entirely absent, for the mind has emptied itself of the past."

--jason

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Re: Suffering

Post by runstrails » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:02 am

Thank you, km. I hope your post is read by anyone who is suffering right now. It has deep resonance. I used to think that 'little self' inquiry (as you elegantly put it) was a waste of time--since well the little self is an illusion. Well, suffering proves that entirely wrong. When suffering is intense, the' little self' cannot just be ignored as illusory.

Could I ask you to elaborate on what you mean by this. How does one accomplish it?
keymaster wrote:
We invite the potential emotional pain into the infinite array of experiences that future may hold, which allows us to reconnect with what we timelessly are. We don't stop taking action, we simply stop depending on results.
thanks, rt

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Re: Suffering

Post by the key master » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:18 am

Yo rt.

Emotional pain arises because of the “story of separate self”, and the mind’s interpretation of life according to this story. This interpretation of life cannot be controlled. Yet, the mind, perhaps realizing that it cannot control its own interpretation, often strives to influence events to prevent a certain interpretation from happening.

So if we take a step back and look at this, what do we see? We see a mind, which is not what we are. We see the mind interpreting life according to the image of separate self, which is also not what we are. We see the body feeling emotions based on this interpretation. But most importantly, we see striving for control so the mind doesn’t have to face the repercussions of itself in some future moment. It’s not life which is actually feared, but only an interpretation grounded in separation. The mind literally fears itself, the emotional pain which it may or may not cause. Through this train of thought, we can begin to learn how the mind is utilizing the illusion of being a separate self to maintain the deeper illusion that the mind is what we are. Put another way, we use the mind to expose itself for the fraud that it is.

Now, moving onto the particular:

We must take an honest look and see what thought created scenario the mind is running from. We must see clearly how and why the mind is striving for control. We must see how the fear of emotional pain is causing the mind to distort reality, which is almost always the case. We invite where we are, where ever we are, into our heart. We say yes this is exactly where I'm supposed to be, because this is exactly where I am. Even the mind can't argue that logic. We say thank you to life for putting us in a position where the mind can cause suffering, so that we can be given yet another opportunity to deepen the understanding of what we could never possibly be.

We see what can be done and we do it. When the mind says what if, we invite it in. If that happens then it happens. If I have to cry I will cry. What the hell is wrong with crying mind? What is wrong with emotional pain?! Don’t you see that’s part of being human? I should be so lucky! This can really turn the tides of how a given mind thinks. It is the running and striving because of the "what if" which really is the suffering.

Practically everyone I’ve met has a fear of emotional pain on some level. The fear of emotional pain arises from past. Experiences which cause us hurt are falsely believed to be experiences which “should not have happened”. So there is often a pool of repressed emotions, from relationships gone bad, to the guy who stole my parking spot yesterday, to my dog lucky that got mowed over by a truck(guess it wasn’t his lucky day), that can manifest through thinking grounded in control in the present. This pool of repressed emotions will manifest as thinking grounded in separation and control, particularly thinking aimed at preventing the already repressed emotional pain from happening. Another circus trick of the mind-equating emotional pain from yesterday with potential pain from tomorrow.

--jason

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Re: Suffering

Post by smiileyjen101 » Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:13 am

Awakening does nothing ‘for you’ in the world of form. It does not get 'you' anything. Look at Jesus—enlightened but then died by crucifixion. There must clearly have been physical suffering for him, but I wonder if there was any mental suffering on his part when it happened? likely not.
I remember reading Jesus cried out in his mental and physical anguish 'Father, why have you forsaken me?' He was human, beautiful and conscious, but human none the less.
I like smileyjen’s notion that suffering in form allows love (what you truly are) to grow and then be experienced by that form (of course I may have totally misinterpreted her words!).runstrails
: ) However you interpret it for you is just fun RT - hmm I meant to type just fine lol!! And, I like where it has taken you.

"The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern."
-Elisabeth Kubler-Ross
Sometimes those who have known great suffering also know great love and compassion.
I love EKR, thank you for reminding me. In her own suffering after she had a stroke she said she felt frustrated like a plane grounded on an airstrip, neither being allowed to fly nor go back to the hangar (or some such notion). She didn't know then she had one more book to complete - On grief and grieving, which she did with an able bodied co-author. Only a few days after she handed over the manuscript with her final notes did she pass away. A few of us gave thanks and three cheers for her finally being allowed to fly and for the inspiration she had been to so many.

Incredibly also that it was she who, in order to help stroke victims, designed a communication board so that they might point to letters and words on a board to ease their frustrations of not being 'heard'.
She also, on another level battled with massive independance issues, and even though she noted her mother's frail end state was in order to allow her to learn to accept help gracefully, she never seemed to realise she was given the same opportunity.

In my sweetest suffering I once found myself so overcome with sorrow that it seemed to leach out of every pore and organ and cell of my being, turning me to water while in the shower one morning. The tears and pain flowed through my body to merge with the flowing water, the water ran down the drain, into the rivers and out to the ocean, picked up by the winds and returned to the sky to fall as rain, to replenish the Earth, to be consumed in the eternal cicle of life.

And my body and heart melted until I thought I would join the great eternal energy - by flowing down the plughole!

It was as if the warmth of my tears were melting an iceberg - and there again is the friction creating a changed state.

Somewhere in the absolutely given over to it grace, this too became okay.

After that, because the sorrow was warranted, I learned to not hold in the tears, but to let them fall whenever they needed to. I would if it was inconvenient, just apologise and say "Sorry, I'm just leaking, it happens'. Most would just nod in love, others would react in fear because maybe it's just not the done thing, or they were afraid of my circumstances, or for whatever reason. But what I couldn't do was not 'feel' and express my own pain. EKR helped me with that.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: Suffering

Post by alex » Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:57 am

Smileyjen you have a beautiful way with words, I too have suffered deeply and agree that the true allowing of suffering is the biggest awakener. Sweet sweet pain. Have you read The Prophet? I love his words on pain;

Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding.
Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain.
And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy;
And you would accept the seasons of your heart, even as you have always accepted the seasons that pass over your fields.
And you would watch with serenity through the winters of your grief.

Much of your pain is self-chosen.
It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self.
Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquillity:
For his hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by the tender hand of the Unseen,
And the cup he brings, though it burn your lips, has been fashioned of the clay which the Potter has moistened with His own sacred tears.

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Re: Suffering

Post by Marcel Franke » Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:38 am

> tightness in stomach, inability to eat very much, insomnia

I know that very well.
What makes it suffering, what gives it a sad face, is the idea that it shouldnt be there,
that it is all wrong, that things are not as planned.
That this experience must go.
That it is your personal responsability that things are the way they are.
But even "the idea that it shouldnt be there" is not your personal responsability.
---ooOoo---

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Re: Suffering

Post by misha » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:02 am

I just noticed this again today. I had typed this out and pasted it on my notice-board and forgotten all about it -

A New Earth - Pgs. 182…

When the pain-body is activated –

• KNOW that what you are feeling is the P-B in you.
• This knowing will break the identification
• Be highly ALERT and watchful of it
• When the identification ceases, the transmutation begins
• The knowing prevents the old emotion from rising up into your head and taking over not only your internal dialogue, but also your actions as well as interactions with other people.
• Choose to step out of identification with thinking & emotion and enter the state of Presence
• Become still and alert
• Identification means thinking you are one and the same with the thing eg Ego, Feelings, emotion, thoughts. You are NOT those things. You are the Watcher, the Observer.
• The tiniest negative emotion such as being irritated or anxious can serve as a doorway through which the P-B can return.
• No judgement – nothing is wrong with you. Knowing must be followed by Accepting, allowing yourself to feel whatever it is you are feeling at that moment.
• Through allowing you become what you are : vast, spacious
• Know thyself – Who am I?
• Knowing yourself is to be rooted in Being, instead of lost in your mind

• If peace is really what you want, then you would remain nonreactive and absolutely alert when confronted with challenging people or situations. You will immediately accept the situation and thus become one with it rather than separate yourself from it. Then out of alertness would come a response.

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Re: Suffering

Post by Natalie » Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:47 am

Thanks for posting this misha. I had forgotten just how powerful this chapter was. Time to read it again.

One thing I am beginning to notice whenever a painful thought arises is that the length of time it takes for the thought to be dissolved by awareness is getting shorter and shorter, as if there is not enough time for the thought to reach my chest and cause damage. In the past, the suffering generated by a particularly sticky thought was experienced as a burning sensation in the middle of my chest. As of late, this has not been the case. When this and other negative or painful thoughts arise, almost immediately “something” pops up and dissolves the thoughts instants before they “turn into” suffering.

Perhaps my obsessive identification with the life situations that caused the suffering and the years and years of complete ignorance took me to a breaking point where I just became ‘ripe” for this kind of mechanism to evolve.

Natalie

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Re: Suffering

Post by misha » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:28 am

"Choose to step out of identification with thinking & emotion and enter the state of Presence"

For years and years I've not understood what "identification" meant. Everybody talks about identification, but it was something that i couldn't grasp. Only recently it is becoming clearer to me, that it means that I and my thoughts/feelings are not one and the same, that "I" am separate from my thoughts and feelings.

To make it real for myself, I try view my thoughts and feelings (when I remember) as this separate 'thing" that "I"am viewing. I tell myself "it" or "this physical body", is feeling bad or sad and "it" is thinking thoughts that are creating these feelings/emotions, not Me and I shall stand aside and just pay attention to what is going on (and who is ME? ..haha...don't know that yet! Yup...someone/something can watch the thoughts and the feelings, but isn't that just another part of my brain ??? Doesn't prove to me that just cos I can watch myself, means this watcher is some immortal consciousness. How does it prove that when this physical body ceases, this consciousness remains? Right now it seems to me that this so-called consciousness/presence etc is attached to this body. Does this knowledge that consciousness is immortal and independent of the body arise from beyond logic??).

Pl assist to clarify all this further. Thanks.

Misha

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