fear and attachment

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the key master
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by the key master » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:02 pm

That's good stuff alex, particularly this,
You will find that the love you have for your daughter is something completely solid and exists prior to any thoughts, fears and attachments and will continue to exist after any kind of awakening.
Before this you said,
The only advice I can offer is to tell you that these fears are illusions.
I would not call the core fear of emotional pain an illusion. I would say it is precisely this fear which enables the stream of thinking to maintain the illusion that it is actually what you are. Granted, the image of separate self that the mind perpetuates can never be more than an image. Yet, the unawakened mind can go years if not lifetimes interpreting reality as if it actually is this image of self. As such, the ability for the mind to block out emotional hurt based on this false notion of being a certain person is something which can manifest here and now, particularly in love relationships.

If there is some repressed emotional glue underlying certain thought tendencies, then love can take us to it. The mind unconsciously projects its own pool of repressed emotions onto those that it loves, because on a subconscious level, it believes its going to lose love, that its going to feel pain, because the emotional body is yearning to feel emotions which have not been fully expressed. Denying the fear of emotional pain as belonging to the "person who doesn't exist in the first place", or calling it an illusion, allows the mind to bypass the emotional hurt that subconsciously it wants to feel. However, until the mind is taught to seek out the pain it wants to avoid, thinking grounded in fear and control will continue to manifest here and now in one form or another.

--j

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Natalie
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by Natalie » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:23 am

Grateful for the question and the answers.
I think that many of us parents on the forum will benefit from these wise and kind words
I agree.

alex
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by alex » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:47 am

Jason I agree wholeheartedly that the emotional basis of fear must be thoroughly felt, explored and accepted. During my own turmoil this was a huge step in the direction of peace. After facing the emotion my mind would sometimes voice the same fear but it would kind of turn into sounding like a broken record, it didnt have the same emotional grip anymore and this is where I could see it as really just illusion. Did you ever experience this?

the key master
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by the key master » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:02 pm

I have experienced the tendency for repressed emotional energy to manifest through thinking grounded in fear and control. At the root of this tendency lies the core fear of emotional pain. Once the realization settled that I truly was not this image of self, nor could I ever be, the mind became far more willing and able to understand itself. In terms of the distortion which occurs here and now from repressed emotional energy, yes I would say its important to recognize the illusional/delusional nature of such thinking. This would be the "projection" thinking mentioned above, the subconscious yearning to feel emotional pain trickling into the mind's interpretation of reality in some moment as a separate self.

So the fear of emotional pain itself is not an illusion, it is an embedded psychological tendency resulting from the unawakened mind's interpretation of reality as a separate self. In order to uproot the tendency to repress, which is a more than worthwhile thing to do, the mind has to go backwards and open the door so that the repressed pain can find its way out. There may still be energy deep in the bellows which is still manifesting through distorted thinking grounded in separation. In this sense, its less about seeing memories as illusions, and more about digging up the thought created reality that the mind is avoiding.

Jumping into memories "as if you actually are" a separate self will likely lead to resistance/denial of pain. So before I send a mind headhunting for pain, I would first advise it to gain an understanding of a situation completely, of both the nature of its own thinking and those around it. If there is still resentment for some separate self, whether it be an image of oneself or another, then love will not be able to express itself fully. Understanding paves the way for forgiveness, and forgiveness allows the light of love to shine through. Love opens the door. Then its simply a matter of allowing what's waiting on the other side to find its way out. In the end, a doorway is a precious gift, because it is a ticket to salvation...

--j

enigma
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by enigma » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:12 pm

Essentially the goal is not (and cannot be) to realize Truth, but to live consciously. There's less justification for the resistance to the fulfillment of this goal since few are going to suggest it would be in the best interest of a loved one, or anyone, to remain unconscious. Instead, there are few who will even pursue this goal since we're not conscious of the fact that we're not conscious.

James
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by James » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:24 am

Enigma wrote: Essentially the goal is not (and cannot be) to realize Truth, but to live consciously.
I see truth and living consciously as synonyms. Truth to me means knowingly being what one really is.

Words always fail to adequately describe what that is, but they can point to it.
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

enigma
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by enigma » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:05 am

James wrote:
Enigma wrote: Essentially the goal is not (and cannot be) to realize Truth, but to live consciously.
I see truth and living consciously as synonyms. Truth to me means knowingly being what one really is.

Words always fail to adequately describe what that is, but they can point to it.
Possibly, they can be interpreted as synonyms, but what I mean by living consciously is simply being aware of what is happening in ones own mind. No denial, projection, unrecognized motivations, fears, etc. This is not knowingly being what One actually is. The belief that one is a separate person or that free will is a reality may very well collapse if one is sufficiently conscious because many of these ideas only grow in the dark, but this is not really a matter of not being aware of unconscious material.

Jed McKenna talks quite a bit about this and calls it being awake within the dream, which he distinguishes from awakening FROM the dream. There are distinct advantages for the person in being awake within dream, while there are not in awakening from the dream.

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Sighclone
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by Sighclone » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:20 am

Stunned I am, said Yoda. What a great thread. Thanks, rt....and everyone else. Some random thoughts from a step-parent…
However, one thing that shocked me is how many of my fears are due to attachment to my young daughter.
Fears are 99% future-based. (Sometimes there is a snapping alligator by your foot!) We do not control the future. All you can do for your daughter, awakened or endarkened, is show love and compassion today. However, you can dwell on unpleasant thoughts of any sort, any time. Or not.

Allowing the fears to arise and be released does two things: 1) It releases fears, which opens you for more spiritual growth, and 2) you stop being afraid for your daughter, which frees you to love her. So releasing fears about your daughter (not love, mind you, but its opposite, fear) allows you to both awaken and love her.

Can you love her without being attached to her? Or is your attachment some kind of egoic projection? My mother loved me so much she projected her image of my future (which image fed her ego) onto me with great subtlety...she was not fully aware of it even. Finally I rebelled at about age 23.

But if the real issue is attachment (as you say), then perhaps your “nondual antennae” have exposed an egoic parenting meme. De Mello is not the only one to note that our children are not ours to keep. Does the attachment you feel have a “possessive” quality to it? That would be something awakening would tend to dissolve…

How were you parented? Whatever style you use will, in some way, reflect that. Often it is “doing the opposite.”

Two cents…

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

mus3cho
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by mus3cho » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:35 am

I always tell my daughter I hope she does it better than me. It was amazing to hear her tell her friend that. "My mom wants me to do it better than her". I guess sometimes she is hearing me.

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Re: fear and attachment

Post by rodriguez_88 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:36 am

Man, you guys are awesome.

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Elle
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by Elle » Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:25 am

So glad to have stumbled upon this thread. I have a toddler and I am saddened sometimes just wanting what is best for him and asking myself if I am providing him with that...

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smiileyjen101
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 1:52 am

I have a toddler and I am saddened sometimes just wanting what is best for him and asking myself if I am providing him with that...
Elle, your 'sad' emotions are maybe based on hmmm... the fragility of uncertainty -

That uncertainty is real - how can YOU 'really know' what is 'best for HIM'?

Yes there are basics, please do feed, clothe, house him in a healthy way :wink:
Beyond that - learn from him, well actually even with food clothing and housing (within a healthy range) learn his needs and preferences from him.

Remember his and your own basic emotions are the same - love, joy, fear, suffering
love bubbles and shines in joy, while frights are real, fears are false emotions appearing real, suffering (and even tantrums by adults and toddlers alike) are about the distance between expectation and reality.

By being awake to these things you will avoid many of the egoic battles and encumberances people have and put on their children.

Your boy is blessed to have you - have fun with him, put joy into your journey together. When that sadness comes smile at it and say 'that's okay, he'll teach me' :)
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

unbornawakened
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by unbornawakened » Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:01 am

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with total honesty and sincerity. Your love for your child is real. Stay with it. Don't judge. Everything has its time. You are doing the best at this time.

runstrails wrote:So, this awakening process has caused me to face many of my fears head on. Fear arises from an external situation, I experience it and then do an inquiry about what the fear is ultimately about and then I'm able to release it. I think I've been able to face most of my fears (e.g., fear of emotional pain, fear of death, fear of uncertainty in life situations etc..).

However, one thing that shocked me is how many of my fears are due to attachment to my young daughter. I want to be able to provide for her so she has a good life. This is a real primal fear and one I cannot let go of. I don't feel this deep attachment to myself or any other adult in my life (husband, parent etc..). The other day I did an inquiry, and the answer came back that I prefer her having a good life, to me finding the ultimate truth.

Any advice on this situation? Can parents of young children ever really let go of attachment to their children. I can see everything as illusory, except my child! This is a tough one. Thanks, for any help :)

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Elle
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by Elle » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:41 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
I have a toddler and I am saddened sometimes just wanting what is best for him and asking myself if I am providing him with that...
Elle, your 'sad' emotions are maybe based on hmmm... the fragility of uncertainty -

That uncertainty is real - how can YOU 'really know' what is 'best for HIM'?

Yes there are basics, please do feed, clothe, house him in a healthy way :wink:
Beyond that - learn from him, well actually even with food clothing and housing (within a healthy range) learn his needs and preferences from him.

Remember his and your own basic emotions are the same - love, joy, fear, suffering
love bubbles and shines in joy, while frights are real, fears are false emotions appearing real, suffering (and even tantrums by adults and toddlers alike) are about the distance between expectation and reality.

By being awake to these things you will avoid many of the egoic battles and encumberances people have and put on their children.

Your boy is blessed to have you - have fun with him, put joy into your journey together. When that sadness comes smile at it and say 'that's okay, he'll teach me' :)
What a beautiful reminder!!!! :D I was projecting onto him, because once I realized I was not those thing I had to identify with for so long and so strongly, I had no idea what to do and that scared me because I have a beautiful little person depending on me. You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned him teaching me because wow every day is a new lesson and I thought it odd that he is teaching me so much about myself, I wondered if any other parent realized the same thing. Also, thanks for perspective on tantrums because he is around that "terrible two" stage and O MY!!!!! It can be a up hill battle at times!!!!!! Peace to you :)

alex
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Re: fear and attachment

Post by alex » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:44 am

My little fella is also nearly two and the tantrums have begun!!! This parenting journey is such a joy isn't it? The love I have for him is so BIG! I didn't know I could love someone so solidly.
I have been through alot of turmoil regarding parenting and awakening. My take on it now is that all of that worry is just going on in your mind. Life is still just carrying on effortlessly while we torture ourselves with imaginings. As I just let go of control more and more I integrate more fully into the flow and parenting just becomes fun, easy and natural.
Worrying about stuff seems so distant and alien right now! For some reason we seem to think that we need to be in control of everything when ironically it all happens so much more efficiently when we let go of the attachments and mind made fear stories. :lol:

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