Numbing through medication

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Nutkins2
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Numbing through medication

Post by Nutkins2 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:28 pm

Hi there,

I am re reading The Power of Now and there is a part concerning using alcohol, legal or illegal drugs to hide emotion, etc.
That is the part the i have a problem with.

I take Seroxat which is a SSRI medicine that treats low levels of serotonin in the brain. I feel that Eckhart is saying that you cannot become enlightened whilst taking meds. That you are in fact covering up your emotions, etc. I don't feel that my egoic mind is being covered up so to speak, i still get thoughts and emotions that have to be neutralised with presence.

Without my meds i become very manic, can't keep still, etc. I feel that my meds keep me on an even keel.

I suppose i am saying that i am afraid of not being able to be enlightened even though when i live in the Now there is great peace. Is this an illusion?

What do you think?

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Nutkins2

the key master
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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by the key master » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:57 pm

Waddup Nut?
i still get thoughts and emotions that have to be neutralised with presence.
What you are is presence, the space which notices thoughts and emotions arising. If the motivation is to feel a certain way, this motivation stems from the false belief that the mind actually is a separate self, and would hinder what is sometimes pointed to as enlightenment. Along these lines, see if the mind has an underlying tendency to "not want to feel" certain emotions.
Without my meds i become very manic, can't keep still, etc. I feel that my meds keep me on an even keel.
If you are content with the human experience as is, meaning not just at peace Now, but on the more day to day, stick with what's working.
I suppose i am saying that i am afraid of not being able to be enlightened even though when i live in the Now there is great peace. Is this an illusion?
The belief that the "I" contained in this thought stream is actually you, would be the illusion.

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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by kiki » Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:31 am

Take your medication as prescribed by your physician. The use of recreational drugs to cover up emotional issues is to be avoided. Those can easily become crutches used by ego, and that's why they can interfere with awakening. When the body is lacking something that is necessary for normal and healthy functioning then by all means, follow your doctor's orders.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Nutkins2
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Thanks for your support

Post by Nutkins2 » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:01 am

Thankyou you both for your support.
I don't feel that my medication cover up the ego so i have to still be very present to avoid being dragged down by it.

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Kae
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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by Kae » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:34 pm

Interesting topic.
I just wrote a post about similar thoughts (http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... =10&t=8543).

I'm sort of wondering the same thing as you.
I can also say, that while I was taking medication before, I still had moments of pain-body attacks, and I still had to remain still and clear and not get caught up in it.
So I do sort of think that medication can help you stay on a reasonable level, mentally, and you can still have experiences of development and enlightenment.

Let's say you've broken your leg in an accident, and you need physiotherapy. You need to do exercises to rehabilitate your body. But you feel so much pain, that you find it hard to use your leg. Wouldn't it be reasonable to use a cast, and perhaps pain-killers, to make you able to retrain yourself? The cast and medicine wouldn't impede your progress, but they would actually make you more able to train, facilitate the process, wouldn't they?
Pura Visio, Pectus Apertum, Pax Interi

enigma
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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by enigma » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:08 pm

It's becoming more clear to me that the pace at which we're able to face truth is self regulating. That is, truth at whatever level, is psychologically destabilizing, and so the willingness to see simply falls away in the face of that instability. As such, to the extent that 'progress' is determined by this stability, it is the stability itself that is being addressed in 'spiritual work'.

The perceived need for medication implies an instability, and it is a psychic instability that is only indirectly addressed by the meds. Directly addressing it, in this context, would mean not compensating with medication. In a sense at least, since the instability IS the work, it makes no sense to bypass the work chemically so that the work can continue. It also seems possible that greater instability may be created which cannot be medicated.

The only reason I see for medication is in the case where it is needed in order to maintain functionality and focus so that work on the instability can progress. Ideally, this is the proper role of drugs in psychotherapy, though it's application is highly subjective.

The difference between this and the broken leg/cast scenario is that the broken leg is not an 'issue' to be faced, it's just an injury to be repaired in whatever mechanical ways are appropriate.

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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by Sighclone » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:16 pm

Psychotropic drugs are problematical in the "process/no process" of awakening, be they pharmaceutical or recreational. Given that none of us here have access, or if we did, understanding of the micro-neurobiology of awakening (see "Buddha's Brain" by Hanson) for any particular individual, the best we can do is say "I don't know."

That said, I am not convinvced that a period of medication prevents awakening for anyone. Thought disorders, personality disorders and the spectrum of depressive disorders all respond well to effective medication. People feel better, more in control. Many nondual teachers have said that a certain stability of "sense of self" is required to let it go. enigma is right on when he alerts us to the very destabilizing event that is awakening. The foundation needs to be quite firm before it can be discarded.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Kae
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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by Kae » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:23 pm

enigma wrote:It's becoming more clear to me that the pace at which we're able to face truth is self regulating. That is, truth at whatever level, is psychologically destabilizing, and so the willingness to see simply falls away in the face of that instability. As such, to the extent that 'progress' is determined by this stability, it is the stability itself that is being addressed in 'spiritual work'.

The perceived need for medication implies an instability, and it is a psychic instability that is only indirectly addressed by the meds. Directly addressing it, in this context, would mean not compensating with medication. In a sense at least, since the instability IS the work, it makes no sense to bypass the work chemically so that the work can continue. It also seems possible that greater instability may be created which cannot be medicated.
But for how long do you put up with this 'instability' without change? Days, months, years?
How about getting on with life, if nothing changes?
Life, like having personal relationships with people, being yourself in a warm and loving way, maybe even enjoying some of it?
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enigma
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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by enigma » Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:50 pm

The 'solution' to all suffering is surrender. The motivation for all surrender is suffering. It is self regulating.

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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by arel » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:06 pm

Nutkins2 wrote: I suppose i am saying that i am afraid of not being able to be enlightened even though when i live in the Now there is great peace. Is this an illusion?
If you live in the now, which sounds like you do conciously, then you're enlightened. So you are done with that. In terms of meds, I'd recommend you exhaust natural solutions to whatever bothers you before taking drugs. And that is good food, water, oxygen, enough excercise, relationships, and something to strive for, maybe. Easier said then done of course.
What I say is only my viewpoint.

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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by enigma » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:10 pm

So, accomplished the enlightenment thingy and now it's time to get on with the life improvement project? :shock:

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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by arel » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:35 pm

enigma wrote:So, accomplished the enlightenment thingy and now it's time to get on with the life improvement project? :shock:
Well yeah, what else is there to do? :) Why are you surprised? I thought your comment right above mine about "surrender" is also a "life improvement thingy".
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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by enigma » Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:41 pm

Surrender is the surrendering of the whole life improvement strategy. Enlightenment is the realization that you don't have a life to improve. Hehe.

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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by arel » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:24 pm

enigma wrote:Surrender is the surrendering of the whole life improvement strategy.


Surrender is life improvement strategy, it's goal is to relieve suffering.
Enlightenment is the realization that you don't have a life to improve. Hehe.
I have no idea what that means. It sounds very nice and grand and cryptic, but that's not what "enlightenment" is. It is as simple as this:
To be fully awake and enlightened simply means to be fully present in the moment of now. To be present is the simplest thing. It is your natural state.

Every moment, you have a choice. Will you be present in the truth and reality of this moment or will you allow yourself to be seduced into the world of the mind? All thoughts take you out of the present moment. And then if you believe in those thoughts, which most of us do, you get lost in the world of the mind.
I pulled that from the Awakening thread on this forum... Sounds good to me.
What I say is only my viewpoint.

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Ziendus
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Re: Numbing through medication

Post by Ziendus » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:40 pm

> you get lost in the world of the mind

I suppose, this is an experience.
Which, like all experiences, take place "in" You.
Is there any experience at all, that excludes You ?
Then, is there an experience, in which You gets lost ?
---ooOoo---

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