Do you think everything is meant to happen?

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densestpainbody
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Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by densestpainbody » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:41 pm

Eckhart too said this in his book. I suspect our lives were all planned before we were born. If I think this way, I feel a great relief. I did many very embarassing things in my life, hurt many people's feelings(I didn't mean it though), made stupid decisions, wasted precious time, but if they were all planned and were meant to happen, I can relax.

The moment you were born to this world, your destiny is set. You were born to a certain environment, a certain neighborhood, a certain country, in a certain year. They all influence you. People you live with influence you, and you believe in their beliefs. Seemingly we are choosing our actions by ourselves, but they were designed to be chosen. Humm it's difficult for me to explain the reason in English. if you think like me, could you explain in your way?

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eputkonen
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Re: Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by eputkonen » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:34 pm

I do not believe in fate, but I also do not deny what is by saying what is should not be as it is (it was meant to be different).
But to say "everything is meant to happen" implies everything has a meaning...which I do not believe.
It points in a similar direction to my understanding, but "everything is meant to happen" is too simplistic and has flaws.

People who say they believe this typically do not really believe it. If this was truly believed, then there would be nothing that could happen that would not instantly be accepted and surrendered to. One who so instantly accepts and surrenders would feel no worry, fear, disappointment, stress, etc. Why feel worry...it will be as it was meant to happen. Why feel fear...it will be as it is meant to happen. Why feel disappointment...it was as it was supposed to be. Why feel stress...things are as they should be. Someone who really believes this would be in a continual state of peace and contentment. I haven't met anyone yet who says "everything is meant to happen" who was at peace and content. They usually are saying this to try and convince themselves so that they can accept and surrender, but it doesn't work that way.
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runstrails
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Re: Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by runstrails » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:51 pm

Great question!
My take: Life is not random (even a casual observer can see this). For example, if the earth had a slightly different orbit, life would not be possible. Similarly, your own life is not random, it is interconnected with everything around it. Life is like a kaleidoscope, if one thing moves, the rest is affected inherently. 'Meaning' is overlaid as a conceptual interpretation. So its up to you, if you want to think there is meaning or not. What you can't deny is that life is happening and that you are an integral part of it. How and why things are happening is beyond your conceptual understanding because your limited mind can never see the full picture of reality. [At least, that is what I tell myself when I see pictures of starving children and senseless wars].

snowheight
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Re: Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by snowheight » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:02 am

There is underlying order to the Universe as testified by nature which is undeniable.

Part of that order is the chaos of chance. This is contradictory. That is ok.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

densestpainbody
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Re: Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by densestpainbody » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:04 am

Nice answers, arigato(thank you) :D

Another question... In Echkart's book, there was this saying, which probably was some Japanese's and that went something like this: "Snow falls, each flake for the appropriate place." So does this mean, even before we are enlightened, all the events happened appropriately? Until this moment, were there no any other ways of our lives?

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Re: Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by enigma » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:37 am

People who say they believe this typically do not really believe it. If this was truly believed, then there would be nothing that could happen that would not instantly be accepted and surrendered to. One who so instantly accepts and surrenders would feel no worry, fear, disappointment, stress, etc. Why feel worry...it will be as it was meant to happen. Why feel fear...it will be as it is meant to happen. Why feel disappointment...it was as it was supposed to be. Why feel stress...things are as they should be. Someone who really believes this would be in a continual state of peace and contentment.
Peace and contentment are founded on the absence of personal identification rather than a belief in fate. Fate may dictate great pain and loss in one's future, and the idea that it was meant to be and cannot be avoided doesn't suddenly make it okay or automatically bring about acceptance. On the contrary, it may encourage victimhood.

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by smiileyjen101 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:36 am

I have ; 0 dual notion from the ancient chinese Tzu Wei philosophy that doesn't let you off the hook quite that easily ; ).

The philosophy speaks to opportunities of the Heavenly Stem - things that will happen within your destiny
and the Earthly Branch - things that may happen depending on your choices - consciously or unconsciously.

It makes for the eternal balancing act of choosing as consciously as possible whilst accepting 'what is'.
Your response (ability) is important only in the sense that it will influence your (and other's) experience of 'what is'. The expression of free will.

Balancing your personal responsibilities with the responses and responsibilities of others are the steps we take in order to engage with the opportunities we may or may not have selected to experience in life.

imho
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by enigma » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:35 am

Your thoughts define your entire personal world, which can be heaven or hell depending on those thoughts. You do not, however, determine those thoughts.

snowheight
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Re: Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by snowheight » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:17 pm

densestpainbody wrote:Until this moment, were there no any other ways of our lives?
This may sound like a harsh counterpoint to the gentle fall of snow, but yes, prior to this moment, there were other ways, it is just that the arrow of potential runs in only one direction.

Here is a bit of dualistic wisdom from the West that perhaps applies:

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

We cannot change the past. Regretting the past gains us nothing. Learning from mistakes is a treasure.

One idea worthy of contemplation: an embrace of the present does not imply that one need accept some imagined future which we might believe is highly likely or even inevitable.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

Nutkins2
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An example!!!!

Post by Nutkins2 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:41 pm

Hi there all,

I would like to believe that everything happens for a reason otherwise life seems like one sick joke. I also don't believe that one man i.e. Hitler, is able to kill millions of people by his strength alone. He had to have been helped, i.e. by God/Universe.
This may sound blasphemous but even the bible speaks of God creating evil in Isaiah 45, i think. And St Paul talks of God making vessels of dishonour for His purpose.
If we talk of free will, then where were the free wills' of all those people that Hitler had killed. I'm sure part of their free will wasn't being killed in such a horrendous way!!!


On a completely different nicer level, my husband and I won a teddy bear and we called it Teddy Pom Pom after a Pomeranian we saw on TV. Many years after this we actually adopted a x Pomeranian from a rescue centre, which is a very rare type of dog to be seen in rescue homes. When he came home, he enjoyed sitting with Teddy Pom Pom on the chair. I would never in my wildest dreams have imagined owing a Pomeranian as they are breed dogs and my husband doesn't usually go for these type of dogs.
I feel that this was meant to be as Spike (our dog) came down from Liverpool (we live in London) and if we hadn't gone that morning, Spike would probably been quisked away by someone.

Any thoughts?!!!!

Nutkins2

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smiileyjen101
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Re: Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:09 am

I also don't believe that one man i.e. Hitler, is able to kill millions of people by his strength alone. He had to have been helped, i.e. by God/Universe.
Hitler was helped nutkins, in very real terms by other humans, exercising or not their choices in situations.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

enigma
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Re: Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by enigma » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:59 am

I would like to believe that everything happens for a reason otherwise life seems like one sick joke.
It seems to me that the sick joke would be if something actually intended for life to be as it is. I remember as a teenager vowing to fight this miserable bastard called God, as it seemed the only 'human' thing to do. Turns out, I AM that miserable bastard. Hehe.

Nutkins2
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Enigma

Post by Nutkins2 » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:19 am

hi there,
I believe that the bible teaches that everything happens according to Gods' plan, the purpose of Gods' intention. St Paul speaks of this often.

Godbless
Nutkins2

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Re: Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by Blenderhead » Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:50 am

densestpainbody wrote:Eckhart too said this in his book. I suspect our lives were all planned before we were born. If I think this way, I feel a great relief. I did many very embarassing things in my life, hurt many people's feelings(I didn't mean it though), made stupid decisions, wasted precious time, but if they were all planned and were meant to happen, I can relax.

The moment you were born to this world, your destiny is set. You were born to a certain environment, a certain neighborhood, a certain country, in a certain year. They all influence you. People you live with influence you, and you believe in their beliefs. Seemingly we are choosing our actions by ourselves, but they were designed to be chosen. Humm it's difficult for me to explain the reason in English. if you think like me, could you explain in your way?
That is only half the truth. On the level of form and mind, this is true. Everthing seems to be caused by something else. Our mind is part of many years of conditioning. And we have a certain fate, things we did not choose ourselves.
But the world has another dimension too, which is the formless. And new things come out of the formless. Actions and thoughts, that do not have any external cause. This world is not a machinery where everything is determined by cause and effect. That is why this riddle cannot be solved: Which came first, the hen or the egg? The answer is neither. Because things arise out of something formless, they are not created by other forms. So there are many things in your life already, which are not caused by past events and you don't have to think of yourself as a person that has no influence at all. Because there is a part of you, which is beyond conditions and events in your life. And this is a creative part of you, which has infinite potential and is not planned in any way. I have read that there is scientific evidence that even genes can change in some people, when they meditate.

I also like the fairy tale: The ugly duckling. Because this story shows, that even though our environment pushes us in a certain direction, consciousness has a way of breaking boundaries :)

densestpainbody
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Re: Do you think everything is meant to happen?

Post by densestpainbody » Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:42 pm

Thank you guys. My thoughts... Still I think it's impossible for us to have lived in other ways. Cos, in the before-enlightenment state, whether we can be conscious or not (which we can be no victims of circumstances if we can) depends upon the circumstances we are in. If someone is living with full of sufferings, how can s/he be conscious? S/he is still largely in the world of cause and effect. His/her strings are pulled after another by external things: persons, events, what they hear, etc. Untill s/he has suffered enough and become enlightened, I think s/he is under the world of cause and effect and pushed down to only one path. The event we can be conscious by depends upon the world of forms... Hard to explain.

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