Projection

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enigma
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Re: Projection

Post by enigma » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:54 am

You talk a lot about projecting outward. What about when we project onto ourselves? Things like regret and guilt.
That's called self judgment. One can't actually project onto oneself.

enigma
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Re: Projection

Post by enigma » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:07 am

So I feel that understanding why they say and do the things they do can lead to forgiveness. Perhaps remembering that there is no self in them either is enough. I don't know, I'm going to play around with this some more.
Seeing that there is no self in the self is enough for self forgiveness as well as forgiveness of others.

the key master
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Re: Projection

Post by the key master » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:01 pm

Gettn jiggy with eniggy.
That's called self judgment. One can't actually project onto oneself.
Wouldn't you consider an unresolved conflict within mind being projected "in some other form" onto the image of self, through anxiety, suicidal thoughts, or something like this, a projection of the unresolved issue (unresolved conflict from past) onto an image of self created now. I mean, neither images are you, so why can't I call this projection?

The question was asked if projection can occur without repressed energy in the body. I don't see why not. The issue seems to have more to do with unconscious beliefs, or unresolved conflicts within the mind.

the key master
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Re: Projection

Post by the key master » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:15 pm

rlee said,
they" can't actually be responsible for the things they do and say to us. So I feel that understanding why they say and do the things they do can lead to forgiveness.
Yes that's good. Understanding kinda paves the way. Eniggy mentions seeing that there is no self in the self is enough for self forgiveness and forgiveness in others. I'm with that, meaning, as you come to understand yourself, you arrive at an understanding in others. In reality you are not separate, nor ever were. How could you not forgive, not love, what one already is?
Okay, so if there is repressed pain, and the key is to allow all emotions to be felt (so that they eventually lose their stronghold), then I wonder if it's just a matter of allowing the emotions that arise due to our own perceptions about ourself to be felt.
Yes, I'm with this. But if this is a form of "projection", the projection that eniggy states isn't projection, then feeling those emotions fully would not get to the root issue, if it is indeed something else. The emotions and "self judgment" would linger, indicating an unresolved emotional conflict, being fueled by repressed energy in the body and the old "should not be happening/have happened" thought patterns.
Or can that emotional conflict be dug out using other methods such as writing or talking about those past experiences?
Yes these methods can be helpful. Understanding seems to be a huge part of this, so if that is lacking, if mind senses the root issue is not fully understood(which projection will alert you to), speaking with someone who you trust and who understands seems like a worthwhile thing to do.

enigma
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Re: Projection

Post by enigma » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:18 pm

Wouldn't you consider an unresolved conflict within mind being projected "in some other form" onto the image of self, through anxiety, suicidal thoughts, or something like this, a projection of the unresolved issue (unresolved conflict from past) onto an image of self created now. I mean, neither images are you, so why can't I call this projection?

You can call it anything you want, but projection is believing that what is happening inside is actually happening outside. The refusal to consciously acknowledge it's origin does nothing at all to remove it, and so it is seen and felt. The mind in denial concludes the source must be outside.

the key master
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Re: Projection

Post by the key master » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:19 pm

Fair enough.

rlee
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Re: Projection

Post by rlee » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:28 pm

enigma wrote:but projection is believing that what is happening inside is actually happening outside
Okay, I'm beginning to think that I have no idea what projection really means. Can we get an example or two?

the key master
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Re: Projection

Post by the key master » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:33 am

Yo,

In terms of projection:
One of the things I've been doing lately is trying to get into other people's heads.
As an example. Lets say someone wants to leave their job, a friend of yours. They come up and say, hey, why don't you leave that job youre working. Then 2 minutes later they start complaining about their own job. They project their issue onto you by "wanting you to change", signifying the change they actually want for themselves. Funny stuff to watch, and a dynamic worth understanding in this business.

That's a pretty simple example. When there's a strong emotional undercurrent to the projection, it becomes blatantly obvious, or easier to spot. Although not strangely, the tendency for these emotional issues to be buried deep into the subconscious can make recognizing them within yourself more difficult. Stay alert in your relationships, and continue inquiring as you have.

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Re: Projection

Post by heidi » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:04 am

When there's a strong emotional undercurrent to the projection, it becomes blatantly obvious, or easier to spot. Although not strangely, the tendency for these emotional issues to be buried deep into the subconscious can make recognizing them within yourself more difficult. Stay alert in your relationships, and continue inquiring as you have.
Well put, key master.
If you are wondering why you feel separation, the key master here has made our oneness a little bit more clear to understand.
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enigma
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Re: Projection

Post by enigma » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:54 am

Yes that's good. Understanding kinda paves the way. Eniggy mentions seeing that there is no self in the self is enough for self forgiveness and forgiveness in others. I'm with that, meaning, as you come to understand yourself, you arrive at an understanding in others. In reality you are not separate, nor ever were. How could you not forgive, not love, what one already is?
Yes, though I wanted to mention that self acceptance, as well as acceptance of others, requires only the realization that nobody is in control. Fortunately, oneness realization is not required.

rlee
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Re: Projection

Post by rlee » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:11 am

enigma wrote:
Yes that's good. Understanding kinda paves the way. Eniggy mentions seeing that there is no self in the self is enough for self forgiveness and forgiveness in others. I'm with that, meaning, as you come to understand yourself, you arrive at an understanding in others. In reality you are not separate, nor ever were. How could you not forgive, not love, what one already is?
Yes, though I wanted to mention that self acceptance, as well as acceptance of others, requires only the realization that nobody is in control. Fortunately, oneness realization is not required.
Thanks guys. You've been helpful. This resonates with me. Selfhood has been seen through on this end but I tend to forget. So maybe reminding myself that there actually isn't a self here would be enough to allow self-forgiveness and acceptance/forgiveness in others. Also, perhaps that will allow me to open up more rather than resist emotions.

the key master
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Re: Projection

Post by the key master » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:14 am

enig said,
Yes, though I wanted to mention that self acceptance, as well as acceptance of others, requires only the realization that nobody is in control.
That's the second best point you ever made.
rlee said,
Also, perhaps that will allow me to open up more rather than resist emotions.
Yes resistance seems to only lead to more projection.

the key master
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Re: Projection

Post by the key master » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:28 am

Fortunately, oneness realization is not required.
Funny how forgiveness leaves no residual in the mind. Best line ever.

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Sighclone
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Re: Projection

Post by Sighclone » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:18 am

look for a doorway for that emotion to express itself
Reminds me of a whole chapter in Adya's new book "Falling Into Grace." In that chapter he talks about "Being Intimate with fear" and finding out "What Really Wants To Be Expressed?"
And also how vulnerability is the courage to be whole, and is not easy...in fact, he says :
...I've seen over and over again that people can have very deep and powerful spiritual revelations, even real awakenings to the truth of their nature, and yet at the same time they can still have a deep hesitation or even fear to enter into real human intimacy. Intimacy with reality is one thing. Actually intimacy with reality is relatively easy, once you get the hang of it. ... But to be very open and intimate with another human being, that's not so easy, at least initially. To do so requires a depth of insight and a deep willingness to open to fear...to be willing to see those parts of you that don't want to open...we must come face to face with the whole world of emotion -- emotional protection and emotional availabilty. Through relationship, we can start to see how we often go into a mode of self-protection or recoil, or into various degrees of fear....to be open-minded, to be no-minded is one thing, but to be genuinely emotionally open is something deeper, and it touches the heart and core of us in a very profound way. It requires that we stay in beginner's mind, and more importantly, in beginner's heart.
Now go buy this great book...available April 1 on Amazon, and earlier, I think from Sounds True.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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