What to 'do'?

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snowheight
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by snowheight » Wed May 18, 2011 8:13 pm

I hereby declare Ananda to be the Justin Bieber of practice and non-practice coaching and it is time for some starry-eyed fan mail!
Ananda wrote: It is simple now, but subtle. When the mind is not, then I am. When the doer is not, then I am. When all notions and ideas about myself, about the world, of being a person within the world, when all these have stopped with the cessation of the mind, then I am. When my mind is not, then my experience of the world is non-different from my awareness, from my sense of existence. This is very important here, to recognise this now. When the mind is silent completely, then I cannot distinguish between what I experience and my awareness within which the experience arises- in fact there is no difference between the two, because all differences are ideas only- and ideas cease when the mind is silent.
I'm going to offer a characterization here -- these long posts, of which there are more than just a few, are seemingly infinitely textured. Even though they have at base a very simple, repetitive theme, I can just read and read and not only never get bored but as I read I find myself slipping into the same state of being that comes with meditation. An added bonus is that the ideas expressed will often seep in around the edges during meditation at just the right times to not only silence the mind, but when the conceptual pointers are followed along their non-conceptual vectors funny and beautiful non-things don't-happen everywhere all the time during a sit.

Ananda, If I weren't a dude I'd throw you a big wet sloppy kiss.

I used to like to spar mind-to-mind with him on certain conceptual issues, and will not promise to refrain from doing so when such concepts will arise in his future posts ... but when he talks of quieting the mind you will hear a pin drop in mine.

A shake of the head and a bug of the eyes and that same head is nodded toward his obvious deep knowledge of ancient Vedic scripture. It takes much more than just knowledge to synthesize such genius and we are indeed fortunate that Source has found such a vehicle.

Namaste,

Bill
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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ashley72
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by ashley72 » Thu May 19, 2011 2:32 am

Kutso wrote:
ashley72 wrote:Would that somehow lessen the value of the pointer?
The pointers are still good, just not for Riken. The thing with spirituality is that you can't give the same advice to all people, simply because all people are in different stages of spiritual progress. That's why Sages through times have given advice to someone and then given a totally different and seeming contradicting advice to someone else.
Eckhart Tolle on “Pointers”...... Only words that were written or spoken in a state of presence have this transformative power, which is the power to awaken presence in the reader. These passages are best read slowly. Many times you may want to pause and allow a moment of quiet reflection, or stillness. Eckhart Tolle

Kutso wrote:
ashley72 wrote:On a personal level...Tolles pointers have assisted me in watching my own thoughts come and go... And helped me connect with my true nature.
Sure. I'm not saying that Tolles pointers are not valid. They have helped me in the past as well. But it came to a point where the pointers were no longer helpful for me and I had to follow new pointers.
Eckhart Tolle on “Pointers”......When you do practice meditative reading, you do not read primarily to gather new information, but to enter a different state of consciousness as you read. This is why you can re-read the same passage many times, and every time it feels fresh and new. Eckhart Tolle

Kutso wrote:
ashley72 wrote:I'm not sure how a pointer of lower & higher state of consciousness to describe a state of watching your thoughts coming & going within consciousness - Is creating further separation.
Maybe it's not creating further separation, but it is still a concept of separation because of dividing consciousness in two, and not helpful for Riken who has obviously already come to this conclusion.
A “pointer” is not attempting to be another concept. A “pointer” is attempting to transport you to NO-MIND. Once you start looking at a “pointer” as a concept... it stops being a “pointer”.

Eckhart Tolle on "Pointers"....The purpose of a “pointer” is for meditative reading. When you practice meditative reading, you do not read primarily to gather new information, but to enter a different state of consciousness. Eckhart Tolle

Kutso wrote:
ashley72 wrote:How did Kutso drop all ideas of spiritual (Mind) seeking? Personally I can't drop thoughts, that would energize them. Any resistance would just make them persist. I listen to them impartially... and nothing more.
Firstly, I have not dropped all ideas of spiritual seeking. Secondly, how is it done? Well, it is actually not that much that you drop the ideas. It's more like you don't associate with them. Like Ananda so eloquently put it to me, you don't put your hat on them. :) It has nothing to do with resisting them. You just don't interest yourself in them.
On the level of your thinking, you will find a great deal of resistance in the form of judgment, discontent, and mental projection away from the NOW. On the emotional level, there will be an undercurrent of unease, tension, boredom, or nervousness. Both are aspects of the mind in its habitual resistance mode. Eckhart Tolle

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Riken
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by Riken » Thu May 19, 2011 3:06 am

what is the point of these quotes ashley?
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players"

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ashley72
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by ashley72 » Thu May 19, 2011 3:42 am

Riken wrote:what is the point of these quotes ashley?
Riken,

Try and put aside all attitudes, opinions, judgements, beliefs about "Ashley72" and "Kutso" & "Eckhart Tolle". Just read the words deeply..... meditate on them. If you can do that impartially...this question may disappear.

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Riken
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by Riken » Thu May 19, 2011 4:16 am

ashley72 wrote:
Riken wrote:what is the point of these quotes ashley?
Riken,

Try and put aside all attitudes, opinions, judgements, beliefs about "Ashley72" and "Kutso" & "Eckhart Tolle". Just read the words deeply..... meditate on them. If you can do that impartially...this question may disappear.
oh dear... Haha
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players"

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Kutso
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by Kutso » Thu May 19, 2011 7:55 am

ashley72 wrote:A “pointer” is not attempting to be another concept.
But it is, is it not?
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

snowheight
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by snowheight » Thu May 19, 2011 2:30 pm

Kutso wrote:
ashley72 wrote:A “pointer” is not attempting to be another concept.
But it is, is it not?
Perhaps it all depends upon the I of the beholder.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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ashley72
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by ashley72 » Thu May 19, 2011 9:47 pm

Kutso wrote:
ashley72 wrote:A “pointer” is not attempting to be another concept.
But it is, is it not?
Eckhart Tolle tells us in his second book Stillness Speaks:
The mind is incessantly looking not only for food for thought; it is looking for food for its identity, its sense of self. This is how the ego comes into existence and continuously re-creates itself.

When we don’t know our deeper being, our true self grounded in universal being, we have to create mental positions so we can “know who we are" and "what we stand for.” It gives us a false sense of identity.
Eckhart puts it this way.....
The Truth is far more all-encompassing than the mind could ever comprehend. No thought can encapsulate the Truth. At best, it can point to it. For example, it can say: “All things are intrinsically one.” That is a pointer, not an explanation. Understanding these words means feeling deep within you the truth to which they point.

As we become more aware of the experience of being part of the whole, mental concepts of what that whole is drop away. We go from the certainty from which people debate to simply being comfortable not knowing.
Again, as Eckhart expresses it.....
Become at ease with the state of “not knowing.” This takes you beyond mind because the mind is always trying to conclude and interpret. It is afraid of not knowing. So, when you can be at ease with not knowing, you have already gone beyond the mind. A deeper knowing that is non-conceptual then arises out of that state.
Have you experienced this deeper knowing? If you have, you already know that it’s the end of all debate.

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Kutso
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by Kutso » Thu May 19, 2011 10:44 pm

You are very fond of quoting Eckhart. May I suggest that you instead of quoting Eckhart all the time, try put it into your own words. And also listen to what others have to say here. There is wisdom in many words of all members here.

To summarize to what you quoted:

What Eckhart is saying is that even pointers is not the truth, and therefor must eventually be dropped. Clinging to even these beautiful pointers is still clinging to concepts.
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

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ashley72
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by ashley72 » Thu May 19, 2011 11:30 pm

Kutso wrote:You are very fond of quoting Eckhart. May I suggest that you instead of quoting Eckhart all the time, try put it into your own words. And also listen to what others have to say here. There is wisdom in many words of all members here.

To summarize to what you quoted:

What Eckhart is saying is that even pointers is not the truth, and therefor must eventually be dropped. Clinging to even these beautiful pointers is still clinging to concepts.
Kutso, I'm not looking for any (friends or foes) around here. I come here because I stumbled upon a deeper truth a few years ago (beyond cognition)

This forum only works... Because people come and share their personal experiences and wisdom. I appreciate your own contribution and that of others. I am fond of quoting Eckhart Tolle... His words resonate strongly with me :D it really doesn't matter who claims ownership of a pointer (that would be another layer of mental hinderance)

The purpose here is to go beyond ownership and words... A place of no-mind. :D
Last edited by ashley72 on Fri May 20, 2011 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ralph
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by Ralph » Fri May 20, 2011 12:23 am

ashley wrote:
This forum only works... Because people come and share their personal experiences and wisdom. I appreciate your own contribution and that of others. I am fond of quoting Eckhart Tolle... His words resonate strongly with me it really doesn't matter who claims ownership of a pointer (that would be another layer of mental hinderance)

The purpose here is to go beyond ownership and words... A place of no-mind.
Well said, ashley.

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Riken
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by Riken » Fri May 20, 2011 8:35 pm

ashley72 wrote:
Kutso wrote:You are very fond of quoting Eckhart. May I suggest that you instead of quoting Eckhart all the time, try put it into your own words. And also listen to what others have to say here. There is wisdom in many words of all members here.

To summarize to what you quoted:

What Eckhart is saying is that even pointers is not the truth, and therefor must eventually be dropped. Clinging to even these beautiful pointers is still clinging to concepts.
Kutso, I'm not looking for any (friends or foes) around here. I come here because I stumbled upon a deeper truth a few years ago (beyond cognition)

This forum only works... Because people come and share their personal experiences and wisdom. I appreciate your own contribution and that of others. I am fond of quoting Eckhart Tolle... His words resonate strongly with me :D it really doesn't matter who claims ownership of a pointer (that would be another layer of mental hinderance)

The purpose here is to go beyond ownership and words... A place of no-mind. :D
The purpose is in realizing that there is no separate 'me' who can practice, no separate 'me' who can become enlightened, no separate 'me' ever existed outside familiar thoughts, sensations and emotions that seemed to join together to produce the idea of a person; but there has always been the real you before these ideas would arise. This 'you' is consciousness, bliss, the Self.

It's recognizing that you never really came 'in and out' of consciousness, because you ARE that consciousness. You can be in a state of no mind quite comfortably but still cling to very subtle ideas when the mind re-arises, subtle ideas of doer-ship.

Clinging to ideas of practice and the idea that 'you' are practicing is only reinforcing illusion, but it is not 'wrong' to do because even that is performed within consciousness.
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players"

snowheight
Posts: 1962
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:56 pm

Re: What to 'do'?

Post by snowheight » Fri May 20, 2011 9:49 pm

Riken wrote:Clinging to ideas of practice and the idea that 'you' are practicing is only reinforcing illusion, but it is not 'wrong' to do because even that is performed within consciousness.
Right, there is noone there on the inside to "cling" anymore than there is someone there on the outside to pass judgment on practice as "clingy".
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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ashley72
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Re: What to 'do'?

Post by ashley72 » Fri May 20, 2011 11:42 pm

Riken wrote:
ashley72 wrote:
Kutso wrote:You are very fond of quoting Eckhart. May I suggest that you instead of quoting Eckhart all the time, try put it into your own words. And also listen to what others have to say here. There is wisdom in many words of all members here.

To summarize to what you quoted:

What Eckhart is saying is that even pointers is not the truth, and therefor must eventually be dropped. Clinging to even these beautiful pointers is still clinging to concepts.
Kutso, I'm not looking for any (friends or foes) around here. I come here because I stumbled upon a deeper truth a few years ago (beyond cognition)

This forum only works... Because people come and share their personal experiences and wisdom. I appreciate your own contribution and that of others. I am fond of quoting Eckhart Tolle... His words resonate strongly with me :D it really doesn't matter who claims ownership of a pointer (that would be another layer of mental hinderance)

The purpose here is to go beyond ownership and words... A place of no-mind. :D
The purpose is in realizing that there is no separate 'me' who can practice, no separate 'me' who can become enlightened, no separate 'me' ever existed outside familiar thoughts, sensations and emotions that seemed to join together to produce the idea of a person; but there has always been the real you before these ideas would arise. This 'you' is consciousness, bliss, the Self.

It's recognizing that you never really came 'in and out' of consciousness, because you ARE that consciousness. You can be in a state of no mind quite comfortably but still cling to very subtle ideas when the mind re-arises, subtle ideas of doer-ship.

Clinging to ideas of practice and the idea that 'you' are practicing is only reinforcing illusion, but it is not 'wrong' to do because even that is performed within consciousness.

That is correct..... clinging to ideas of practice would be about as unhelpful as taking ownership of the words that might describe that idea, practice or pointer. Just another layer of mental hindrance which takes you away from the NOW.

The conceptual meaning of ..... The pointer "you ARE that consciousness" or The pointer "Being is a state of Higher Consciousness" or "Being is a state of deeper Consciousness".... is totally irrelevant. The purpose of a pointer is to take you beyond mind because the mind is always trying to conclude and interpret. It is afraid of not knowing. The very act of comparing & debating the "subjective truth" of pointers is preventing you from becoming still and quiet.... comparing & debating pointers is a mental activity. If you're not conscious enough you won't even detect the minds involvement and the Pointer will fail to work as it was designed.

Lastly, for all the operating Ego's out there... these are "my words" by the way! So go ahead and judge and pigeonhole the "little me" :lol: (tongue in cheek)

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