Would a conscious person want to do anything?

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hughesa
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Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by hughesa » Wed May 18, 2011 7:34 pm

I first read The Power of Now around September last year and it really shocked me to find out there is no 'me' as I am sure it did most. I also read A New Earth. I started to 'wake up' but then months later I sunk back in to deep unconsciousness and decided I had to re-read the book recently to get me out of this. There is an awful lot of confusion that I think needs clearing up and I am going to write a list of questions I will post in the coming days. I just do not know who I am anymore to be honest. Iam of the impression that if you are truly conscious or enlightened (I am not sure if these are the same thing) then why would you ever want to do anything?

Since I first read The Power of Now I have lost complete interest in Football (soccer) (used to really enjoy it), lost interest in socialising (never had much of a social life anyway tbh), just don't care for much really. I have always had huge goals though. I want to be rich (as most do), be really great on guitar (just started learning now), be extremely fit, and much more. But these to me sound like pure ego so I feel I cannot do these without the ego remaining. This really scares me.

I have never had a job (I am 23) and I am currently on job seekers allowance of £55 a week. What I want to know is, if I am truly conscious and then free of ego then why would I have any desire to change my situation? It is as it is after all, right? I do not have a social life, I spend most of my time on computer or just doing nothing (I am always so tired and can't be bothered to do anything), I don't really have any friends (unless you call going on with some school friends 4 times per year friends). I live at home, pay £20 per week keep. This leaves me with £35 per week. I do not have to pay for food or bills. That £35 is for me. Why would I ever want to change this when there is no need to? Surely it is only the ego that wants to change things? If there is nothing wrong then only the ego would want to improve the situation right?

I want to be rich to have loads of money to do what I want. I want to play guitar to impress people. I want a girlfriend. But these sound like things of the ego. hSometimes I think what is the point in living? Why should I not just commit suicide? Only the body dies after all, right? There was no 'me' to begin with. Why did Eckhart Tolle want to write a book and share his wisdom? Surely that is his ego that wanted to do that? If he was truly conscious then he would have just stayed on those park benches for the rest of his life and not wrote books about this. I do not know what is real anymore or what to believe. Makes sense to just end it. And why should you care if I ended it? Is that not your ego? Surely we should all just sit on a park bench for the rest of our life spending our 'dole' money on basic food and blankets to keep us warm because after all, everything ALL RIGHT.

hughesa
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by hughesa » Wed May 18, 2011 7:47 pm

can a mod please move this to the eckhart tolle general section

Ralph
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by Ralph » Wed May 18, 2011 7:55 pm

What you just wrote is the ego talking, not a 'conscious person' talking. Your idea of what a' conscious person' is is taking all the fun out of it. This is the unconscious ego mind playing the part of what a conscious person is suppose to be like.

The ego is still at the controls.

xkatex
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by xkatex » Wed May 18, 2011 8:07 pm

It sounds to me like you're in a spiritual trap and I'm very sorry to hear that you feel that way about life. But I think you've misunderstood what Tolle is saying. If you read 'A New Earth' he offers clarification about awakened 'doing' and how that might manifest in the world.

I think it's in 'The Power of Now' that Eckhart says if it is not love joy, and openness towards all beings then it isn't enlightenment. If you're experiencing apathy or inertia it sounds like you've missed something. Your ego itself is trying to stop you from doing anything by convincing you that all actions come from the ego. Have you read the inner body chapter? Felt the alive peace that comes from that? If you stay there, positive action will arise and it's only through presence that you can initiate positive change in your life.

I'm sure more experienced members of the board will have greater clarification to give also :) peace.

hughesa
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by hughesa » Wed May 18, 2011 8:10 pm

Ralph wrote:What you just wrote is the ego talking, not a 'conscious person' talking. Your idea of what a' conscious person' is is taking all the fun out of it. This is the unconscious ego mind playing the part of what a conscious person is suppose to be like.

The ego is still at the controls.
I 100% do not dispute that the ego is in control. I am asking what it would be like when a a person is conscious.

walken
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by walken » Wed May 18, 2011 8:15 pm

hughesa wrote:I just do not know who I am anymore to be honest. Iam of the impression that if you are truly conscious or enlightened (I am not sure if these are the same thing) then why would you ever want to do anything?
Can you be absolutely certain of that? Be extremely honest with yourself, especially with your expectations. I don't typically like to get into conversations about enlightened beings, but if you've read enough books by different authors you will see that they are all different. There is no cookie cutter stereotype for what it's like once one realizes the truth. That being said, nobody really has any idea what to expect. If you really want to know the truth you have to push forward without any regard for what might happen. The price of truth is indeed a huge sacrifice, it is a leap into the unknown.
hughesa wrote:have always had huge goals though. I want to be rich (as most do), be really great on guitar (just started learning now), be extremely fit, and much more. But these to me sound like pure ego so I feel I cannot do these without the ego remaining. This really scares me.
hughesa is the ego, the "me", the false self. What I'm saying is don't get too caught up with what is or isn't ego because it's all ego. And ego isn't a bad thing. What you want to take a look at here is your motivations. The desires and fears that motivate you to take action (or inaction).
hughesa wrote:Surely it is only the ego that wants to change things? If there is nothing wrong then only the ego would want to improve the situation right?
What else would want to change things? The non-ego? Desires are not a bad thing. Without them life would be pretty boring and survival would be impossible.
hughesa wrote:There was no 'me' to begin with. Why did Eckhart Tolle want to write a book and share his wisdom? Surely that is his ego that wanted to do that? If he was truly conscious then he would have just stayed on those park benches for the rest of his life and not wrote books about this.
You just said there was no "you". So then do you think there is a "him"? If there isn't, how can "he" be unconscious? All there is consciousness, there are no separate minds or selfs.
hughesa wrote:I do not know what is real anymore or what to believe. Makes sense to just end it. And why should you care if I ended it? Is that not your ego? Surely we should all just sit on a park bench for the rest of our life spending our 'dole' money on basic food and blankets to keep us warm because after all, everything ALL RIGHT.
I sense that you are trying to make a distinction between egoic thoughts and non-egoic thoughts (particularly desires). Egoic or not, they are just that, thoughts! They are not good or bad, right or wrong.

You cannot change your thoughts. You can suppress them or deny them, but there is nothing healthy (or spiritual) about that. The spiritual path is more about acceptance than it is about changing or becoming. Acceptance comes through understanding and seeing clearly. That's all you can do.
hughesa wrote:
Ralph wrote:What you just wrote is the ego talking, not a 'conscious person' talking. Your idea of what a' conscious person' is is taking all the fun out of it. This is the unconscious ego mind playing the part of what a conscious person is suppose to be like.

The ego is still at the controls.
I 100% do not dispute that the ego is in control.
Ego is not in control. It is not a non-existent entity, how can it have control?

I watched a couple of this guys videos yesterday, I'm really starting to like him. Great personality and an awesome message. Check out his video on self-acceptance. This video will do anyone good that has thoughts of self judgement, or think they should or shouldn't be a certain way (other than they are already). It's about self-acceptance, awesome...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZDNISnUf0c
Last edited by walken on Wed May 18, 2011 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rick
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by Rick » Wed May 18, 2011 8:17 pm

hughesa wrote: Why did Eckhart Tolle want to write a book and share his wisdom? Surely that is his ego that wanted to do that?
Hi hughsea. Back when there was an East Germany and a West Germany there were some Germans living in freedom while other Germans lived in tyranny. Every once in a while an East German found his way to freedom in West Germany. Because he could sympathize with the oppression and hardship of those left behind, because he himself experienced it, and because he found a way to freedom for himself, he had a heart to help others still in slavery to find freedom too. It became his hearts mission and he does it out of Love and for Love's sake.
hughesa wrote:Surely we should all just sit on a park bench for the rest of our life spending our 'dole' money on basic food and blankets to keep us warm because after all, everything ALL RIGHT.
Seems to me that the statement that everything is alright does not mean so much that you should accept everything as it is, especially if you have the power to change it for the better. It is more a call to understand that putting up emotional resistance to things and circumstance will cut you off from the Creative Wisdom to deal with whatever is currently happening.
Daily life IS spiritual exercise.

the key master
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by the key master » Wed May 18, 2011 8:45 pm

Whatup hugh?

What a lovely series of posts.
I do not know what is real anymore or what to believe. Makes sense to just end it. And why should you care if I ended it? Is that not your ego?
What you're talking about is ending the dream, but you are still operating "as if what you actually are" could be trapped in a dream to begin with. You have a desire to "improve the dream" on the one hand, and a desire to "end the dream" on the other. These two movements are in conflict with each other, and are creating a shitstorm in your mind.

Enlightenment is pointless. Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise. In fact, don't believe me. There is no such thing as enlightenment, only the seeing through of what was never true to begin with. This has nothing to do with Tolle or what anyone else says or does. It helps to have guidance, but this is about you and no one else. If you want to rip ass on guitar then do it. If you want more money then go for it. If you want companionship then seek it out. Inquire into how "your own fears" may be preventing this part of your dream from unfolding in accordance with what you desire, and things will come into alignment. You may find that what you thought you want you don't actually want, but don't "suppress desire" based on the "belief they stem from ego". This is why I think the concept of ego can be total shit at times. Its just a concept, a way of describing a dynamic or process of something which you yourself are the witness of. Don't believe a word anyone says about this crap. Look to your own experience and you decide what's true. You are your own authority.

Suppression of desire will only lead to more depression. Based on your experience, is this true?

Thinking you need something to be "happy, content, whole or whatever" only causes suffering. Based on your experience, is this true? If it is true, inquire if the needs themselves are genuine, if they are "real". Do I need this right now to be what i already am? And this is how the process that some call awakening begins.

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DanWyns
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by DanWyns » Wed May 18, 2011 11:10 pm

Nice 666th post there key master. lol. And with the world ending this Saturday to boot. lol again.

I wonder what percentage of people turn to "spirituality", because they feel "their life sucks", and presence is going to make it all better. Well, actually, I guess it does, IF you're able let go of everything you thought you were. Big if. We want our cake, and eat it too. But it don't work that way. Enlightenment (dumb word, I know) has a steep price.

Observe 'Cause and Effect', and don't fight it. Learn to understand the quote, "The mind makes a good slave, but a terrible master".
“Part of me suspects that I'm a loser, and the other part of me thinks I'm God Almighty” - John Lennon

snowheight
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by snowheight » Thu May 19, 2011 12:06 am

This forum is really just too cool for school ... we are all beggars swimming in gold.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

the key master
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by the key master » Thu May 19, 2011 3:39 am

Dan saidn,
Nice 666th post there key master. lol. And with the world ending this Saturday to boot. lol again.
Haha the day of redemption is coming. :lol:

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autumnsphere
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by autumnsphere » Thu May 19, 2011 9:47 am

the key master wrote:Whatup hugh?

What a lovely series of posts.
I do not know what is real anymore or what to believe. Makes sense to just end it. And why should you care if I ended it? Is that not your ego?
What you're talking about is ending the dream, but you are still operating "as if what you actually are" could be trapped in a dream to begin with. You have a desire to "improve the dream" on the one hand, and a desire to "end the dream" on the other. These two movements are in conflict with each other, and are creating a shitstorm in your mind.

Enlightenment is pointless. Don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise. In fact, don't believe me. There is no such thing as enlightenment, only the seeing through of what was never true to begin with. This has nothing to do with Tolle or what anyone else says or does. It helps to have guidance, but this is about you and no one else. If you want to rip ass on guitar then do it. If you want more money then go for it. If you want companionship then seek it out. Inquire into how "your own fears" may be preventing this part of your dream from unfolding in accordance with what you desire, and things will come into alignment. You may find that what you thought you want you don't actually want, but don't "suppress desire" based on the "belief they stem from ego". This is why I think the concept of ego can be total shit at times. Its just a concept, a way of describing a dynamic or process of something which you yourself are the witness of. Don't believe a word anyone says about this crap. Look to your own experience and you decide what's true. You are your own authority.

Suppression of desire will only lead to more depression. Based on your experience, is this true?

Thinking you need something to be "happy, content, whole or whatever" only causes suffering. Based on your experience, is this true? If it is true, inquire if the needs themselves are genuine, if they are "real". Do I need this right now to be what i already am? And this is how the process that some call awakening begins.
Hmmmm...
Forget spiritual practice - just do drugs!

hanss
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by hanss » Thu May 19, 2011 11:43 am

hughesa wrote:Sometimes I think what is the point in living? Why should I not just commit suicide? Only the body dies after all, right?
Good. Very good. You have the courage to ask the questions that most of us hide behind non-dual intellectual concepts. Honest and real without strange old hindu labels, questions with great spiritual power. What is the point? I don't know, one could be that you are helping me with your honest writing. Why do we ask this question anyway? Imagine a small kid asking his/her friend:

- Hey, let's go down to the lake and play with the dog!
- Hmm.. I don't know, what is the point?
- The point? What is that?
- Well, is there any real meaning in doing that?
- Uh? Meaning?

Or another conversation:
- I just love ice cream, don't you? This summer I will collect many empty soda-cans and bring them to the store so I can buy much more ice cream! Yummy!
- Hmmm.. well.. is that deisre coming from your ego or from presence? I suggest you do some self-enquiry.
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)

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Kutso
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by Kutso » Thu May 19, 2011 12:50 pm

If you ask "what's the point in living?", maybe you should also ask "what's the point in dying?"
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

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Riken
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Re: Would a conscious person want to do anything?

Post by Riken » Thu May 19, 2011 3:30 pm

What is the point in anything? Well, not much! But who cares? Can you not see how this is just another mind fixation? A distraction?

People ask questions all the time like "What will happen if I wake up, will I lose my job because I feel like I don't need it anymore?" Etc (forgive me if this seems like an attack, it's not). These questions can be answered by finding out what you are! You are simply delaying awakening by fixating on questions like this, because you know deep down answers from others will not ultimately satisfy you.

If you come to this site, it's obvious that your already interested in going beyond what you now believe to be 'yourself', so why not take the plunge - find out what/who you really are underneath all appearances and then see if you have questions.

hughesa, if you really believe the ego is in control then your basically screwing yourself because we all know the power of belief. Have you checked to see if the ego is actually what you are?

Tons of thoughts come and go in your presence, including ideas about who you are accompanied by familiar emotions and sensations (something we call the ego), but isn't there a 'knower' of all of this taking place? Isn't there something there BEFORE the idea of ego? Even when the ego appears to be in full swing, making right and wrong, attacking other thoughts, what you really are is there noticing all of it. Even when you wake up in the morning, can you notice that there's a few moments before the 'story of ME' where you are completely empty? Is ego there? If it comes and goes like that, can it be YOU?

It's worth pondering this stuff.
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players"

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