Feeling bad

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Learner
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Feeling bad

Post by Learner » Thu May 19, 2011 7:31 pm

Can anyone give any advice or support for me in this situation? I recently decided that based on my feelings toward my girlfriend and the fact that we truly don't have a lot in common, we should take a step back and not talk for a few days so we can re-assess things... But I'm realizing that she's probably not the one for me because I don't seem to be missing HER, just missing having SOMEONE to hang out with... I feel that if she was truly the one, I'd be missing HER more. I don't need to get into all of the details, but as I said, we just don't have a lot in common and she's a girl of few words (poor communication). But I feel bad right now because she's a mess because of this. She apparently has feelings for me that I don't have for her, according to her, and she's been crying and crying and having "anxiety attacks" and she keeps talking on Facebook about how she's scared and feeling horrible and etc... I'm concerned about her and if I drop her the news of us not being together at all, I know she's going to be a total mess like I'm literally dropping a bomb on her... She's taking this so hard... I don't know how to deal with it.

The thing is, this is out of my control and I'm going to go read ANE and just try to calm down a bit. But because I do care about her, I feel bad for her... I wish I could help her... In fact, I don't even agree with society's need to just "dump" someone in favor of finding another... I think we should be able to love everyone, it's sad and it's even something Jesus talks about in the Bible; that in heaven there will be no marriage and everyone will love each other. I feel love for my girlfriend as a person but our situational stuff just doesn't go together enough for a so-called "relationship."

Another thing I want to make clear is I'm very aware of the pain-body/ego's need for someone else to fill a void, but my actions have not been based off of this. I'm really not putting my SELF into the relationship, but I know that she is so I feel sorry for her.
Last edited by Learner on Thu May 19, 2011 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

walken
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by walken » Thu May 19, 2011 7:37 pm

Learner wrote:Can anyone give any advice or support for me in this situation? I recently decided that based on my feelings toward my girlfriend and the fact that we truly don't have a lot in common, we should take a step back and not talk for a few days so we can re-assess things... But I'm realizing that she's probably not the one for me because I don't seem to be missing HER, just missing having SOMEONE to hang out with... I feel that if she was truly the one, I'd be missing HER more. I don't need to get into all of the details, but as I said, we just don't have a lot in common and she's a girl of few words (poor communication). But I feel bad right now because she's a mess because of this. She apparently has feelings for me that I don't have for her, according to her, and she's been crying and crying and having "anxiety attacks" and she keeps talking on Facebook about how she's scared and feeling horrible and etc... I'm concerned about her and if I drop her the news of us not being together at all, I know she's going to be a total mess like I'm literally dropping a bomb on her... She's taking this so hard... I don't know how to deal with it.

The thing is, this is out of my control and I'm going to go read ANE and just try to calm down a bit. But because I do care about her, I feel bad for her... I wish I could help her... In fact, I don't even agree with society's need to just "dump" someone in favor of finding another... I think we should be able to love everyone, it's sad and it's even something Jesus talks about in the Bible; that in heaven there will be no marriage and everyone will love each other. I feel love for my girlfriend as a person but our situational stuff just doesn't go together enough for a so-called "relationship."
I would recommend re-reading through your post and finding the fears associated with some of your thoughts, actions, and potential inactions. Ask yourself what you really want and see how fear is preventing you from going after it.

That being said, break ups can be rough. I hope you get what you want.

Cheers

the key master
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by the key master » Thu May 19, 2011 7:53 pm

Nice advice walken.

Sounds like you're in a bit of a sticky wicky Learner. It also sounds like you have a solid head on your shoulders.

There appears to be a fear of "what might happen if I do this or that". This obviously, is a projection, but who cares about that. If you break up with your girl, her feelings are going to be hurt and she is likely going to grieve which might include going through bouts of anxiety which might affect you on the emotional level. Your issue is the belief that this shouldn't happen. You can do something about that.

walken
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by walken » Thu May 19, 2011 8:07 pm

the key master wrote:Your issue is the belief that this shouldn't happen. You can do something about that.
I'm still learning as well. I hope that you can elaborate on this a bit. You are saying that there is the belief that THIS shouldn't happen. What are you referring to exactly when you say THIS? And what do are you suggesting that can be DONE about that (aside from seeing clearly)?

Learner
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by Learner » Thu May 19, 2011 8:15 pm

walken wrote:
the key master wrote:Your issue is the belief that this shouldn't happen. You can do something about that.
I'm still learning as well. I hope that you can elaborate on this a bit. You are saying that there is the belief that THIS shouldn't happen. What are you referring to exactly when you say THIS? And what do are you suggesting that can be DONE about that (aside from seeing clearly)?
Thank you both... What he's saying is that I'm going to have to accept all of that... Yes, it may not be fun for her, yes it may not be fun for me, but in the end, I need to just do what I feel I need to do instead of allowing my mind's fears to cause me strife.

the key master
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by the key master » Thu May 19, 2011 8:16 pm

You are saying that there is the belief that THIS shouldn't happen. What are you referring to exactly when you say THIS?
The if then statement in my post. ----> "If you break up with your girl, her feelings are going to be hurt and she is likely going to grieve which might include going through bouts of anxiety which might affect you on the emotional level. "

It appears as if the "if" is actually desired, but the "then" is feared. It is falsely believed that the "then" shouldn't happen, which is causing cognitive dissonance. By reversing that thought, by seeing that the "then" should happen, because in all likelihood it will happen, the unresolved conflict harbored by the mind becomes resolved.

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Rick
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by Rick » Thu May 19, 2011 8:49 pm

It is possible to allow another to use us as a saving god and thereby prevent them from finding the true Saving God. Setting another free to flounder and suffer can sometimes be one of the highest acts of love we can do for another.
Daily life IS spiritual exercise.

walken
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by walken » Thu May 19, 2011 8:54 pm

the key master wrote:
You are saying that there is the belief that THIS shouldn't happen. What are you referring to exactly when you say THIS?
The if then statement in my post. ----> "If you break up with your girl, her feelings are going to be hurt and she is likely going to grieve which might include going through bouts of anxiety which might affect you on the emotional level. "

It appears as if the "if" is actually desired, but the "then" is feared. It is falsely believed that the "then" shouldn't happen, which is causing cognitive dissonance. By reversing that thought, by seeing that the "then" should happen, because in all likelihood it will happen, the unresolved conflict harbored by the mind becomes resolved.
Learner, I hope you don't mind me jumping in here as I have some additional questions.

TKM, the "shouldn't happen" belief is very subtle. I'm trying to connect the dots here but I'm not really seeing it. What I see is an aversion to (or fear of) feeling the negative emotions resulting from the break up. That is obvious. But the belief is not so obvious.

So perhaps the belief is unconscious which is why it's not obvious? I'm asking because I'd like to be able to identify the unconscious beliefs that I have that affect me in my thoughts and actions.

Also, does fear always result from a belief? Curious what you have to say about this.

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Kutso
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by Kutso » Thu May 19, 2011 10:03 pm

I think what the key master is saying is that there is a belief that suffering can be avoided. In this case suffering can't be avoided. Either he brakes up with her and both will for certain suffer. Or he doesn't brake up with her and he will suffer, and she will probably suffer as well because she senses this is not what he wants.
Please correct me if I am wrong here, tkm.
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

walken
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by walken » Thu May 19, 2011 10:26 pm

Kutso wrote:I think what the key master is saying is that there is a belief that suffering can be avoided. In this case suffering can't be avoided. Either he brakes up with her and both will for certain suffer. Or he doesn't brake up with her and he will suffer, and she will probably suffer as well because she senses this is not what he wants.
Please correct me if I am wrong here, tkm.
I suppose the belief that suffering can be avoided is not too different from the belief that suffering shouldn't happen. Reminds me on an Ecky quote I stumbled upon yesterday, "Nobody’s life is entirely free of pain and sorrow. Isn’t it a question of learning to live with them rather than trying to avoid them?" Quite relevant.

Regardless, I'm more interested in learning to identify unconscious beliefs. Which isn't always easy, beliefs can be tricky little buggers hiding deep under the surface of thought. I think it's the beliefs that hold the structure of thought together. If the beliefs are seen through then the whole foundation of the thought structures are compromised and thought begins to subside (as opposed to trying to quiet the mind which will always bounce back).

the key master
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by the key master » Thu May 19, 2011 10:41 pm

walken wrote,
TKM, the "shouldn't happen" belief is very subtle. I'm trying to connect the dots here but I'm not really seeing it. What I see is an aversion to (or fear of) feeling the negative emotions resulting from the break up. That is obvious. But the belief is not so obvious.
There appears to be an underlying belief in the program that emotional pain should not happen.
So perhaps the belief is unconscious which is why it's not obvious?
The belief that emotional pain should not happen can be noticed, but if it isn't understood a whole lot of not goodness it does for no one in particular.

I mentioned that the fear was a projection, meaning at a deeper level there is something about the nature of experience(particularly past experience) which has not been understood. The issue actually has nothing to do with future, but the delusion that one is a separate self who could have a certain experience in the first place.
Also, does fear always result from a belief?
That sounds accurate. To turn it around, do all beliefs result in fear? If you're a certain someone who believes a certain something, then I don't see how it couldn't.

the key master
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by the key master » Thu May 19, 2011 10:52 pm

Kutso said,
I think what the key master is saying is that there is a belief that suffering can be avoided. In this case suffering can't be avoided. Either he brakes up with her and both will for certain suffer. Or he doesn't brake up with her and he will suffer, and she will probably suffer as well because she senses this is not what he wants.
Please correct me if I am wrong here, tkm.
Pretty much Kutso, but its important to note that I don't consider emotional pain suffering. I consider the resistance of emotional pain which might happen in future or is yearning to happen now, suffering. Learner was concerned with his suffering now, which was the result of fearing pain in some moment that doesn't actually exist.

I think "the end of suffering" is the worst definition I've ever read in terms of what enlightenment is. Because every time suffering happens the mind will naturally think it "shouldn't be happening" because it "wants to be enlightened". This leads to spiritual bypassing and tends to diminish the conscious intent to resolve unconsciousness and leave one stuck with no idea how to get unstuck. So while the end of suffering might be an accurate description for someone looking backward, it doesn't do jackshit for someone looking forward.

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Rick
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by Rick » Thu May 19, 2011 10:54 pm

walken wrote:
Regardless, I'm more interested in learning to identify unconscious beliefs. Which isn't always easy, beliefs can be tricky little buggers hiding deep under the surface of thought. I think it's the beliefs that hold the structure of thought together. If the beliefs are seen through then the whole foundation of the thought structures are compromised and thought begins to subside (as opposed to trying to quiet the mind which will always bounce back).
I would say that if you want to uncover an unconscious belief that you should probably look carefully at the feeling it gives rise to and try to identify what it is you are feeling. For example, someone who has the unconscious belief that he is responsible for any girl he sleeps with, or believes that using another for personal gratification is wrong might feel loath to leave her behind after doing so. He may sense this only as a feeling of inexplicable guilt or strange obligation when contemplating leaving her.
Daily life IS spiritual exercise.

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Kutso
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by Kutso » Thu May 19, 2011 11:29 pm

the key master wrote:Pretty much Kutso, but its important to note that I don't consider emotional pain suffering. I consider the resistance of emotional pain which might happen in future or is yearning to happen now, suffering. Learner was concerned with his suffering now, which was the result of fearing pain in some moment that doesn't actually exist.
Well put.
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

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HandfullaMinerals
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Re: Feeling bad

Post by HandfullaMinerals » Fri May 20, 2011 10:14 am

the key master wrote:So while the end of suffering might be an accurate description for someone looking backward, it doesn't do jackshit for someone looking forward.
I like this, it all depends what stage you are at. It's relatively easy to face our feelings, but a lot of average people would reel back in fear from their 'bad' feelings.

There are 2 dimensions when it comes to feeling. Vertical is showing them the light of consciousness. Horizontal is thought and expression, direct feelings outward as opposed to feeling them.
It is the ego which raises difficulties, creating obstacles and then suffers from the perplexity of apparent paradoxes. Find out who makes the enquiries and the Self will be found.

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