What Choice Do We Have?

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Rick
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What Choice Do We Have?

Post by Rick » Fri May 27, 2011 4:10 pm

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We have no choice in the time of our birth or in the gender we will be. We have no choice in what family we are born into or the color of our eyes and hair. We have no choice in what language we will speak or the traditions we will follow, or the kinds of foods we will eat. We have no choice in our name, the religion of our birth, the values we will be taught, the education we will receive. We have no choice about the amount of love or hatred our parents will have for us, the approval and disapproval we will receive from our peers, or the right or wrong thoughts, ideas or beliefs conditioned into our head.

Before the time of understanding we have no choice in our loves and hates, or the relationships we will be attracted to. We have no choice about our angers and resentments, slaveries or compulsions. All in all we have no choice in the deeply flawed, worldly imposed "lower nature" that grows in us and becomes who we "think" we are.

We can choose from a menu or from a rack of shoes but we can not change the color of a single hair, or save ourselves from error or give salvation to ourselves. We can be "born again" but we can not give this gift to ourselves. The only real, truly free-will choice that we have is to be still and know the truth of our existence, to sit quietly for our daily bread of objectivity to self and allow the Light of Reality to expose and dissolve our worldly conditioning, setting us free, gradually, to be who we really are. This is the only truly meaningful choice we will ever make.

Paradise was lost when man fell into his mind, into knowledge, into thoughts and judgments of good and bad. Paradise is found when men give up "knowledge" and return to the place above his thinking mind where he was on the day he was born. Except ye become as little children again, ye can not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.
Daily life IS spiritual exercise.

jazz
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Re: What Choice Do We Have?

Post by jazz » Fri May 27, 2011 7:44 pm

Excellent! Thank you :)

snowheight
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Re: What Choice Do We Have?

Post by snowheight » Fri May 27, 2011 8:21 pm

Thanks for that Rick. Debates based on Quantum Mechanics and any implied concept of randomness shall be reserved for other threads on this topic that don't point the way beyond the mind. The mind has no say here. The mind is a noisy jetski and the lake in that picture is sacred.

Sighclone Andy said something similar here. Mooji and Tolle respond to the concerns of questioners about anything from the possibility of climate change to perceived economic injustice to the very real threat of global thermonuclear war with the exhortation to "wake up!" in one form or another. We see that one culture calls knowledge, another calls ignorance, and it is just another expression of the paradox that neither is wrong.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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Rick
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Re: What Choice Do We Have?

Post by Rick » Sat May 28, 2011 4:43 pm

snowheight wrote:Mooji and Tolle respond to the concerns of questioners about anything from the possibility of climate change to perceived economic injustice to the very real threat of global thermonuclear war with the exhortation to "wake up!" in one form or another.
Nicely said. Others have said it like this "For if you give, you will get! Your gift will return to you in full and overflowing measure, pressed down, shaken together to make room for more, and running over. Whatever measure you use to give -- large or small -- will be used to measure what is given back to you." There is a Principle at work here. The more we help others to understand what freedom is, the more we shall grow in our own understanding and freedom. I do not think the ah-ha's stop for the enlightened man. It is too enormous, an endless, boundless adventure bigger than the universe itself. But, it seems to me, that it is of the deepest human nature, to want to share what we come to know. That which is in me is driven to reach out to and encourage That which is in my neighbor.

A number of years ago I watched an enlightened friend in a luncheon buffet line in Las Vegas. (he was giving a 3 day talk there) I observed that while everyone else in line was chit-chatting about nothing important, he would bring the conversation around to the meaningful and everyone in the immediate area would either join in his conversation or would respectfully listen. Later I said to him "I noticed that in the buffet line you were "on" and I wonder, is this how we are suppose to be, always on?" He said "Yes, let me give you an example...." He proceeded to tell me about two guys who came to his house to give him a new roof estimate a few hours before. At the end one of the guys left unburdened by some heavy problem he was carrying and had weeped with joy. To use the term familiar to this forum. Presence never stops, It never pauses, It is always ready to be of service to Itself. That is why I say that Daily Life is Spiritual Exercise. Check-out lines, coffee shops, the dentist office...some of the holiest places on earth. It is a joy to be of service.
Daily life IS spiritual exercise.

snowheight
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Re: What Choice Do We Have?

Post by snowheight » Sun May 29, 2011 10:41 pm

It seems that the CHOICE, as described above, would not manifest, but for the GAME.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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Rick
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Re: What Choice Do We Have?

Post by Rick » Sun May 29, 2011 10:56 pm

snowheight wrote:It seems that the CHOICE, as described above, would not manifest, but for the GAME.
Amen.
Daily life IS spiritual exercise.

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Webwanderer
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Re: What Choice Do We Have?

Post by Webwanderer » Sun May 29, 2011 11:31 pm

Rick wrote:We have no choice in the time of our birth or in the gender we will be. We have no choice in what family we are born into or the color of our eyes and hair. We have no choice in what language we will speak or the traditions we will follow, or the kinds of foods we will eat. We have no choice in our name, the religion of our birth, the values we will be taught, the education we will receive.
By this post I take it that you subscribe to an exclusively three dimensional reality; that your existence came into being on the day you were born (or possibly conceived). Do you really perceive life as completely materialistic as this no-choice suggests?

If the self that you are, your essential conscious beingness, pre-existed the birth of your present human form, would not the context of life's conditions be seen differently? Could not choice be a factor?

If we keep our vision of possibilities too narrow, we may miss the very conscious perspective that can see us through life's turmoils.

WW

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Rick
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Re: What Choice Do We Have?

Post by Rick » Sun May 29, 2011 11:49 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Rick wrote:We have no choice in the time of our birth or in the gender we will be. We have no choice in what family we are born into or the color of our eyes and hair. We have no choice in what language we will speak or the traditions we will follow, or the kinds of foods we will eat. We have no choice in our name, the religion of our birth, the values we will be taught, the education we will receive.
By this post I take it that you subscribe to an exclusively three dimensional reality; that your existence came into being on the day you were born (or possibly conceived). Do you really perceive life as completely materialistic as this no-choice suggests? WW
Hey WW,

Not at all. I was speaking to that which we do not have a choice about. Did you choose your gender or hair color or the religion or non-religion of your upbringing? I was stating only that our egoic, conditioned self comes into existence starting the day we were born but I did not imply that that is all of who we are. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. In fact I went on to say that even though we have no choice in the life story we "fall" into, we do have the choice to find out the Truth of our existence by becoming still. I agree that the Truth of our existence is rooted in the Eternal. Always was and always will be.
Daily life IS spiritual exercise.

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Webwanderer
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Re: What Choice Do We Have?

Post by Webwanderer » Mon May 30, 2011 1:02 am

Fair enough Rick. I came to that perception due to this characterization:
We have no choice in the time of our birth or in the gender we will be. We have no choice in what family we are born into or the color of our eyes and hair. We have no choice in what language we will speak or the traditions we will follow, or the kinds of foods we will eat. We have no choice in our name, the religion of our birth, the values we will be taught, the education we will receive.
Note all the 'we' references without what 'we' is referring to. Without a specific context that you are referring only to the ego identity in the no choices mentioned, I got the sense that that was the only source of choice that you recognized. Just trying to get clarity on your meaning.

In truth, I find it quite useful to live from a broader context. Life seems to make considerably more sense when perception is not limited solely to an egoic perspective. Granted, one has to start somewhere.

It's all good.

WW

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Rick
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Re: What Choice Do We Have?

Post by Rick » Mon May 30, 2011 1:30 am

Webwanderer wrote:Fair enough Rick. I came to that perception due to this characterization:
We have no choice in the time of our birth or in the gender we will be. We have no choice in what family we are born into or the color of our eyes and hair. We have no choice in what language we will speak or the traditions we will follow, or the kinds of foods we will eat. We have no choice in our name, the religion of our birth, the values we will be taught, the education we will receive.
Note all the 'we' references without what 'we' is referring to. Without a specific context that you are referring only to the ego identity in the no choices mentioned, I got the sense that that was the only source of choice that you recognized. Just trying to get clarity on your meaning.

In truth, I find it quite useful to live from a broader context. Life seems to make considerably more sense when perception is not limited solely to an egoic perspective. Granted, one has to start somewhere.

It's all good.

WW
Indeed.

And to be fair to you I wrote that post above first on another forum where many do not even have a clue as to what the ego is. I thought that some here might find it useful.

When you say that you find it useful to live from a broader context than the limited egoic perspective I couldn't agree more. I am humbled by the degree of brightness I find here and am put in my place. Until I found this place, I did not know the extent of how much I didn't know. I am grateful to have learned that here.
Daily life IS spiritual exercise.

snowheight
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Re: What Choice Do We Have?

Post by snowheight » Mon May 30, 2011 4:26 am

Webwanderer wrote:
Rick wrote:We have no choice in the time of our birth or in the gender we will be. We have no choice in what family we are born into or the color of our eyes and hair. We have no choice in what language we will speak or the traditions we will follow, or the kinds of foods we will eat. We have no choice in our name, the religion of our birth, the values we will be taught, the education we will receive.
By this post I take it that you subscribe to an exclusively three dimensional reality; that your existence came into being on the day you were born (or possibly conceived). Do you really perceive life as completely materialistic as this no-choice suggests?

If the self that you are, your essential conscious beingness, pre-existed the birth of your present human form, would not the context of life's conditions be seen differently? Could not choice be a factor?

If we keep our vision of possibilities too narrow, we may miss the very conscious perspective that can see us through life's turmoils.

WW
Wanderer,

Assuming that such a choice was made prior to this life, regardless of the extent of that, certainly it seems that the vast majority of people are unaware, or at least seemingly unaware of this choice, no?
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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Webwanderer
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Re: What Choice Do We Have?

Post by Webwanderer » Mon May 30, 2011 4:00 pm

snowheight wrote:Wanderer,

Assuming that such a choice was made prior to this life, regardless of the extent of that, certainly it seems that the vast majority of people are unaware, or at least seemingly unaware of this choice, no?
No doubt that is the case. But if we knew the plot before it unfolded it would lose much of its challenge. I can't say I know or understand why someone would choose a life of pain and abuse, but I'm speculating that the context for choosing a difficult environment is different than we understand from inside the fire. What may be pain from here may be tempering from a greater understanding. And even though the fire be hot, the metal is purer and stronger because of it.

Rick wrote:When you say that you find it useful to live from a broader context than the limited egoic perspective I couldn't agree more. I am humbled by the degree of brightness I find here and am put in my place. Until I found this place, I did not know the extent of how much I didn't know. I am grateful to have learned that here.


Yes Rick, we are blessed to have so many honest and insightful explorers among our membership. Your contributions will no doubt add to the brightness you recognize. I would add that it's beautiful how humility stands out as a marker to awakening consciousness.

WW

Mariposa
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Re: What Choice Do We Have?

Post by Mariposa » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:46 pm

Yes, Rick, yes.

:)

Thank you.

We can choose hair color, at least for a while... :P Although I like the color I didn't choose :lol: or did I?

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