Can someone help me on the way?

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chri1988
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Can someone help me on the way?

Post by chri1988 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:07 pm

Hi guys! Im a 22 year old swedish (bad at english) guy who is really confused in my life.

I dont know where to start, but I can say that my emotionell body is dead. I dont feel much. And it has been this for like 2-3 years now.

I have been talking to doctors, tried medicine, read the books from eckhart tolle and so on. After i read the book i just got more confused so the last 2-3 months I just ignored it all and tried to live my life.

But im so tired of this. I can never feel happiness, joy, calmness, be creative and so on.

90% of the time i Dont feel anything. And im very tired as well. I can sleep 15 h / night if i had the time. Now I got a job, but every day I wake up I just want to go to bed. And if im lucky I can dream a happy dream. Cuz I know when i wake up, this day will be just the same as the last day.

I have tried meditation. 1 or 2 times i Succeded and came into a very nice phase. But otherwise I just started to feel the energy in my innerbody and nothing more...

I have understood all this talk about ego, innerbody, energy and so on but it havent helped me.

The last three days I havent even went to work. Its just so frustrating, cuz my job includes being social with people. And now its just really hard for me. There is no joy in there. Im not social as i was before. For a few years ago I could talk alot, but Im not that guy anymore. Now it takes alot of energy to interact with people. Even my family.

And the thing is, it has been this for such a long time now, that im used to it.

I think doctors would say i´m still depressed, but they cant help me and i dont want to try any more pills. So im asking this here, at this forum. Because I belive this is the key for living.

What should i really do? Im trying to be in the now, but my mind is always catching upp with me. And im tired of thinking: "oh no, this is the thoughts i shouldnt think about". But I really dont make any progress.

I started out with eckhart tolle for like 7 months ago. But it feels like Im on the same square.

I feel so empty. It doesnt matter witch day it is. It doesnt matter if im home or at job. Always this emptyness.

And if I feel something its only bad emotions. My theory is that i have burried my feelings along time ago and I need to digg them up. But how?

I have no energy to interact with people and do things. The only thing I have now is my job, as a salesman. Witch im kinda good at. But thats because I focus that time and do my job. I have a role there. Outside my job im nothing.

The best thing that can happend if when I feel some energy inside me. But thats all. No positive emotions. Just some energy that feels exciting.

At this point I just wanna be alone in my home and try figure it all out. But I know I wont get any further with these thoughts. I want to feel like im going at the right direction..

I think my mind is fucking up the most of it. Most of my thoughts are negative thoughts. I always comparing myself to the one i was 3 years ago. I had alot of friends back then. I had no problem with interacting with people. I had energy, wanted to do stuff. Belived more in myself, and could feel my emotions. and if im not comparising to myself i do it to other people "Why can they be so funny?, Why can they talk so much?" and so on.. The voice in my head is almost never ok with my situation.

Does anybody understand me?

xkatex
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by xkatex » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:59 pm

Google 'spiritual emptiness' and read the first few articles which come up. Your mind is deeply afraid of the void, and so is projecting a deadness on to it which you experience as lack of feeling in your body.

http://www.gangaji.org/index.php?module ... read_id=47

This alive emptiness which Gangaji describes is obviously not what you are experiencing, but if you allow it to be completely, and I mean completely, and don't try to manipulate your attention in any way whatsoever, it will blossom into an alive, radiant, selfless emptiness. The void is frightening to the ego because it knows if it enters it, its life is up. I feel your suffering, but I trust that you have the courage to embrace it.

I'll post an excerpt from Stephan Bodian's 'Wake up Now' tomorrow when I have a bit more time, which I suggest you get hold of; he talks about the wintertime of awakening, which seems to be what you are experiencing. Your ego and thoughts are trying to hold on, embrace it all.

I'm sure some more experienced members will be able to help you, I only just starte reflecting on emptiness :) hope this helps

Ralph
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by Ralph » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:24 pm

chri1988 wrote:
The voice in my head is almost never ok with my situation.
... the good news is that you are not the voice in your head.... the question is why is it that you give your power to that voice ? .. this will probably take some time to see why but you have come to the right place to get helpful pointers that may steer you in the right direction.

So, welcome to the forum and have a look, and join in the conversations that may help you along the way.

walken
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by walken » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:28 am

My theory is that i have burried my feelings along time ago and I need to digg them up. But how?
Dude. I think I'm experiencing the same thing as you. And I'd like answer to that as well.

I feel dead inside. I feel totally emotionless, empty. Right now I would do anything to feel anything (besides anger). I just want to feel alive.

This week I had my mom in town and it was the most stressed out I've been in a long time. My mom is very intense, I'm more laid back and quiet. I was getting frustrated, angry, and down right furious when I was with her. I found myself trying to escape and be alone because she was stressing me out so bad.

Now that I've had some time to reflect, I think what was really happening is that she was pushing my pain buttons. I personally had a very painful childhood. Anger was being projected out at her in order to prevent myself feeling the pain that's been buried deep inside.

In light of that experience I've been trying to be aware of ways that the mind tries to repress pain. Note that repression (as opposed to suppression) is an unconscious process. It takes keen awareness to see how the mind devises (often subtle) ways to prevent itself from feeling pain. What I'm trying to say is that I think this whole deadness thing may be just another pain repression mechanism.

I've been isolating myself for some time to focus on the spiritual search. I don't see friends much. I don't work. I am very private these days. So I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I should get out into the real world again to see if I find a way to experience and feel emotion somehow.

Hmm... I think I just realized that all these mind games are all story lines. "Oh poor me, I don't feel anything." I think it may be a good idea to just sit with that deadness and surrender to it. They say that freedom is through whatever you are experiencing, not around it. What I mean to say is that the thoughts are saying, "this shouldn't be happening," when it actually is happening. Argument with reality is one of the main causes of suffering.

I recently came across this quote from someone who posted a link on this forum and I saved it because I found it quite potent: The only question worth asking is, what are you running away from? ~ Jeff Foster

My question to you is, do you meditate? I think it would be good for you to train yourself to take a step back and watch your thoughts without being attached to them. Note that I am not telling you to meditate to hide from or medicate your problems. I personally find that meditation helps with day to day mindfulness. Your mileage may vary, of course.

I'm don't know if this is of any help to you. But I'm glad that you did post because it made me realize that I've been resisting this whole deadness thing. I think the saying, "What you resist persists," is true.

the key master
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by the key master » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:03 pm

Walken said,
It takes keen awareness to see how the mind devises (often subtle) ways to prevent itself from feeling pain. What I'm trying to say is that I think this whole deadness thing may be just another pain repression mechanism.
Yea yea. I would say, that the deadness itself isn't the mechanism, but the result of mechanical thought processes unconsciously designed to avoid pain, which incidentally limits the human experience based on the delusion of being something separate. Moreover, if you look at the "goal" of most meditation practices, or "seeking the mind state of no mind", and look at what's actually going on, more often that not you will see reinforcement of the illusion of separation as opposed to a dismantling of the delusions which sustain the illusion to begin with. People end up more repressed, not less. Their experience might be "more peaceful", it may contain less "self inflicted suffering", but that doesn't mean there is any less delusion operating within the thought stream, only that the frequency of the thought stream has been reduced, and this is noticed. Whether or not its understood depends on whether or not someone wants to understand.
I've been isolating myself for some time to focus on the spiritual search. I don't see friends much. I don't work. I am very private these days. So I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I should get out into the real world again to see if I find a way to experience and feel emotion somehow.
It seems like you're talking about the emotionless void of no-self. I sometimes call this Alabama tick syndrome. You're in deep. You got some shitty advice and look where its led you. You thought you were looking for something that you could find, and who could blame you? Everyone does it. Every single seeker starts out going in the wrong direction. The mind seeks mind states, and this isn't surprising. I don't sell mind states. I define mind states so that consciousness can transcend them. You talk about maybe getting out into the real world again. You're not out there because right now you don't wanna be out there. You stopped seeking fulfillment "out there", and that's a good thing. Happiness is for children. Release methods are child's games, tinker toys to keep the mind playing on the surface, to clear some emotional space while allowing the dynamics which perpetuate delusion to remain firmly in place.

I'm not saying to not use release methods, or that they aren't helpful in the sense that they can clear out some space cluttered by repressed emotional energy. I understand the dynamics within which these methods operate, and think that one huge plus is that the mind is forced to dive into personal issues that it unconsciously wants nothing to do with. But without uprooting the tendency to repress the individual mind will remain firmly entrenched in the dream state, which is fine because that's what's desired, a better dream, not the end of it.

Avoiding experience clearly isn't the answer. But this does not mean that chasing experience is. There is no answer, actually. I think its a good idea to invite pain as it arises. I think its good you are noticing projection, and understanding where its coming from. I think its good you aren't seeking the mind state of no mind. I think you yourself need to take a solid look at where you're at, at how you got there, and figure out why you're stuck there. In defining your own mind state, the opporunity arises to go beyond. Despair and hopelessness don't sell, but that doesn't mean they don't provide fuel to the fire which will light your ass up regarding where ever it is you are going, which just so happens to be no where in particular.

You need your heart and mind operating in tandem. Nothing less will do. Enjoy the little things. Don't delude yourself into believing you don't want anything. A person can't transcend itself. Not now not never. It can however be transcended if you yourself wanna transcend it. Not the person you, that awareness no thingamajig which is watching you read these words. So what am I saying, awareness can actually "want something"? Well shit, if creation and perception are the same, then we could say that this right here is exactly what creation wants. Figure out why you don't want what clearly is wanted, and you've done your duty. The tendency to repress pain must be uprooted. The belief that experience "should not be happening" must be eviscerated with the sword of understanding. I think what a lot of people don't understand is that they themselves are manifesting experience in accordance with their own mind. The mind projects the experience and gives rise to the illusion of a separate experiencer. Shitty things happen because the unconscious mind actually wants them to happen. Repressed emotions "yearn to be felt" and experience unfolds according to this principle. If there is no tendency to repress emotion, how could you not be in alignment with the interconnectedness of your own creation? The question isn't how to connect, but how to not be disconnected.

walken
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by walken » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:07 pm

the key master wrote:You stopped seeking fulfillment "out there", and that's a good thing. Happiness is for children.
At the start of my so called spiritual journey, yes. I did stop seeking fulfillment externally. But because of this deadness feeling, I panicked, thinking that I might feel emotionless forever.

I fear lying on my death bed and thinking that my life was pointless. I know that's because of deep rooted conditioning. We are taught to find the dream job, dream girl, what makes us happy, etc. Yet, I know that will never be the case. Seeking externally for a sense of completeness or stability will never happen. Life is uncontrollable, unpredictable, always changing. The idea of permanent anything is an illusion.

Just by looking at these things I see the futility in this seeking business, be it happiness or enlightenment. Yet there is so much resistance to just letting go. There is fear that by letting go I will not have gotten what I wanted, and I will not be happy.

I remember you warning me to not fall into the trap of thinking that life is meaningless. And I think that I get that. Primarily because it would just be another belief that would add to more delusional thinking. But I also think that believing that life has meaning is also be a trap. If one believes that life has meaning, the search for meaning will go on and on, thereby perpetuating the seeking business.
the key master wrote:Don't delude yourself into believing you don't want anything.
I sometimes worry that if I go after what I want that it would interfere with the spiritual search thingie. Yet, I'm starting to realize that sitting here in my apartment doing nothing is not getting me any closer to truth...

You've given me a lot to chew on. I'm going to spend the day looking at all this stuff. That is clearly what I need to do.

Thanks for taking the time bro.

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autumnsphere
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by autumnsphere » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:08 pm

the key master wrote:The question isn't how to connect, but how to not be disconnected.
"Ask yourself: How do I manage to un-enlighten myself?"

- Adya

Jason, I think stuff is much simpler than you make it out to be. Releasing IS not repressing and that's that. Cause emotions don't go anywhere, all you need is a change of perspective. Emotions are interpreted as a child's game, yes, and dealt with accordingly. When your child throws a tantrum, you know that it's OK cause it is still loved, it is still healthy and pure. All you need is trust. Trust in what is. And when trust turns to knowledge non-intellectually, then you've got it. The rest is words, words, words...

"Direct knowledge does not require intellectual discourses"
- Ramana :)
Forget spiritual practice - just do drugs!

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RCharles
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by RCharles » Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:10 am

Dear chri1988 (and walken),

You may get some helpful advice here, but your situation seems beyond the capacity of an online forum to resolve. As I was reading your post, I kept thinking, "This is major depression talking," and then you mentioned depression and confirmed it. Please, get different and better professional help. There must be a professional you could see who does not rely totally on medication, someone who can help you talk it out. All the advice you may get here about letting go of the ego and not believing your thoughts, and so on, is good stuff, but I am guessing you need to dig deeper into your psyche and start addressing your specific issues with a professional who can safely guide you through that process.

I wish you all the best and hope you will keep us posted on your progress.

Chuck
"They are all...perfect..." --Ken Watanabe, dying scene in the movie The Last Samurai

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autumnsphere
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by autumnsphere » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:00 am

chri1988, this video was crucial for me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8kA4eu_r88
Forget spiritual practice - just do drugs!

the key master
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by the key master » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:06 am

Autumn said,
Jason, I think stuff is much simpler than you make it out to be.
I'm writing about things, like the end of delusion, from a very high level. This advice was geared toward walken, and his thought processes. Take your kiddie games back to the inquiry thread.
Releasing IS not repressing and that's that.
Did you even read my post? Or are you just busting people's balls? Gimme a break dude.

karmarider
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by karmarider » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:59 am

Chuck said it well.

Chri1988, it sounds to me that you have depression, an affective disorder. I did too.

What's helped me through anxiety and depression are awareness and releasing. I don't take pills any longer. But I would in second if that's what I needed.

There is a tendency for spiritual people to be against conventional medical solutions and pills. That may come from a fervent desire to want to believe that awakening solutions trump everything. And, in the long term I might agree with them, but if you're a diabetic, you take insulin, awakened or not.

The point its, get professional help.

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ashley72
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by ashley72 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:29 am

karmarider wrote:Chuck said it well.

Chri1988, it sounds to me that you have depression, an affective disorder. I did too.

What's helped me through anxiety and depression are awareness and releasing. I don't take pills any longer. But I would in second if that's what I needed.

There is a tendency for spiritual people to be against conventional medical solutions and pills. That may come from a fervent desire to want to believe that awakening solutions trump everything. And, in the long term I might agree with them, but if you're a diabetic, you take insulin, awakened or not.

The point its, get professional help.
I second everything stated by Karmarider above. Good advice.

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ashley72
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by ashley72 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:11 am

walken wrote: I think the saying, "What you resist persists," is true.
Walken, this 100% true. Whenever you resist an emotion, a thought or a feeling... it cant arise. The ego has one of a few responses when it meets stimuli, Fight, Freeze, Flee or Accept. If the ego is weak it will be fleeing from everything it encounters. If the ego is strong it may fight or accept everything that it encounters. If the ego is partially weak it might freeze in certain encounters. When people have fear in many situations, their ego has become weak. Which is basically thoughts, emotions & feelings are telling them to avoid these situations and stimuli. Its an illusion, an anxiety trick which is maintained because the Mind believes each avoidance strategy has saved it from certain doom. Only facing each fear head on can you expose each illusion as false.

Therefore, if your afraid of seeing friends, go see friends. If your afraid of working, go try and get a job. But you need to do it in the NOW (present moment), you have to try and stay conscious. Otherwise those terror stories will take over... and you will never find the courage to face the illusion head on. Each time a terror thought arises, you need to watch it without further judgment. This stops the terror story from growing in power. As you get closer to the feared stimuli, the terror thoughts may become more powerful and intrusive. This is when you need to practice inner-body awareness, by taking attention to the inner body you draw attention away from your thoughts. Difficult feelings and emotions may arise as well, watch those also without judgment. The more you can watch those feelings and emotions without judgment the more inner space allows them to be and arise in that moment. If you can do all this watching in a non-judgemental way, the illusion can be passed & transmuted. It may take a number of exposures to the stimuli before the negative feelings, thoughts & emotions are allowed to arise without any resistance.

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autumnsphere
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by autumnsphere » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:30 am

the key master wrote:
Autumn said,
Jason, I think stuff is much simpler than you make it out to be.
I'm writing about things, like the end of delusion, from a very high level. This advice was geared toward walken, and his thought processes. Take your kiddie games back to the inquiry thread.
Releasing IS not repressing and that's that.
Did you even read my post? Or are you just busting people's balls? Gimme a break dude.
:shock:

Woohoo, someone got zinged. It seems that not a lot of people here dare to disagree with the key master. :lol: All I can think of is: "His shit shines" :mrgreen:
A high level? Where is this high level? :shock: Somewhere up the enlightenment ladder? Good for you, good for you. :lol: I loved your post btw and I got it pretty well.
Really, Jason, at your "level" you're supposed to know that there are no levels. :) And the inquiry thread was posted because it sounds like a game to me and I can't even do it. A game Mr. Maharshi invented btw. :P
Last edited by autumnsphere on Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Forget spiritual practice - just do drugs!

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autumnsphere
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Re: Can someone help me on the way?

Post by autumnsphere » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:46 am

karmarider wrote:Chuck said it well.

Chri1988, it sounds to me that you have depression, an affective disorder. I did too.

What's helped me through anxiety and depression are awareness and releasing. I don't take pills any longer. But I would in second if that's what I needed.

There is a tendency for spiritual people to be against conventional medical solutions and pills. That may come from a fervent desire to want to believe that awakening solutions trump everything. And, in the long term I might agree with them, but if you're a diabetic, you take insulin, awakened or not.

The point its, get professional help.
I'm on natural anti-depressants. Nothing wrong with them from my point of view. They help me reprogram and clear my head. It's all good. :) And I have a great therapist. I don't think therapy is only for sick people. And how do you define sick anyway? It's all a part of the process. :) And if you find a spiritual therapist, then you'll be able to combine both - reading Tolle and different teachers and getting professional spiritually oriented help.
Forget spiritual practice - just do drugs!

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