Where Attention goes Energy Flows

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Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby ashley72 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:08 am

I'd love to here what others have to say about the pointer..."Where attention goes energy flows".

My interest comes from some of Eckhart Tolles pointers around attention,energy,time & presence.

Identification with the mind gives it more energy; observation of the mind withdraws energy from it. Identification with the mind creates more time; observation of the mind opens up the dimension of the timeless. The energy that is withdraw from the mind turns into presence.


I'm also interested in any scientific responses as well as direct experiences and just personal opinions or observations. I want to explore this area purely from interest & curiosities sake... I realize any "knowing" won't take me any closer to my True Nature. 8)

I'm expecting to see some mind-energy flowing into this thread soon!!! Both positive & negative energy is welcome.
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby snowheight » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:17 am

ashley72 wrote:I'd love to here what others have to say about the pointer..."Where attention goes energy flows".


Someone posted that here awhile back, arel perhaps? ... and I've found this useful in the mindfulness facet of day-to-day being in two ways -- one in recognizing when I'm lost in thought, the other in letting that state ebb away harmlessly.

ashley72 wrote:I'm also interested in any scientific responses


As one of the first to answer I get to pick the low-hanging fruit. Bear with me non-scientists! -- I promise a common-sense example in the next paragraph! Without getting into the non-conventional application of the term "energy", it is worth noting that this pointer actually identifies an obvious literal fact-on-the-ground in that events that generate sensory input can be quantified in the amount of energy they generate and, in turn, by the amount of energy processed by a Quantum Observer in the observation of that event.

Here is the example: "If a tree falls in the forest and there is noone there to hear it, does it make a sound?". Now let's set aside the musing that there is no tree and also set aside for a moment the question of what constitutes the Quantum Observer, and assume, just for the sake of simplification, that the Quantum Observer has to be a human being (or at least that there are no cute fuzzy squirrels anywhere near this tree and that ferns are not Conscious ... this is more of a stretch, I know). Not really a great assumption given what we know of non-locality, I know, (not to mention what we can feel by touching a plant) but just for the sake of argument...

If there is one person around to hear the tree, we can quantify the energy which makes up the sound processed by the Quantum Observer in several ways: we can measure the energy of the sound wave which arrived at the ear and the amount that was transposed into the vibration of the ear drum ... etc. ... etc... right up to the amount of energy spent by neurons firing the thought "a tree has fallen".

First off, we notice that the effect of the energy processed by the Quantum Observer is non-linear. This means that very small amounts of energy expended can have great impact, and vice-versa. A woodsman looking for stuff to burn who heard the faint sound of the fall from far away will, in response to the sound, alter his course and expend energy walking toward the sound, while a Zen Master who stood at the base of a giant redwood as it shook the ground around him will remain serene.

If there is no person around, then theoretically, given our assumptions, we have the Schrodinger's cat situation where the tree is both down and up in relative probabilities governed by the specifics of the quantum events which ultimately caused the fall. The interesting thing about this state of affairs is that we recognize that the amount of physical energy which has been processed by a Quantum Observer is zero. So we could paraphrase the pointer as "where energy doesn't flow, reality does not go".

As we add more people to the observation of the event of the tree falling there is more energy processed by the Quantum Observer, but we see the non-linearity of this situation come to bear again, in that the falling of a single tree is an event unlikely to have much more or less of a ripple effect for the extra energy, and it only takes a single Observer to "make it happen" so to speak.

But what about the event of reading an idea? ... like these:

"Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love ... It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

"Form is Emptiness, Emptiness is Form"

"God is Great ... There is no God but God"

"What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

"I is an illusion"

Upon consideration, the difference in scale between the amount of energy it took for a Quantum Observer to generate the thoughts conveyed by the symbols and the actions or non-actions, be they Woodsmen or Zen Masters, that people have taken as a result of this energy, is truly staggering to contemplate.

Another facet of this scenario is the mind bombarded with multiple inputs ... to paraphrase the question about the tree falling in the woods, does a call to useless and destructive arms which goes unheeded do any damage? does a plea for help unheard result in suffering? does a thought of paying the mortgage three months from now which goes unfollowed free one from an obsession or doom one to foreclosure?
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby hanss » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:34 am

I'm into Qigong so this is something I'm interested in. Also in the practical daily life this expression could be used. And certainly in spirituality. When focus is on understanding and analyzing, the energy flows to the mind... more thinking...
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby ashley72 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:02 pm

Snowheight wrote: So we could paraphrase the pointer as "where energy doesn't flow, reality does not go".


I like it.

What about clock time?

Identification with the mind creates more time; observation of the mind opens up the dimension of the timeless. The energy that is withdraw from the mind turns into presence.

If the present moment is a timeless dimension. What happens to the speed of light in a timeless dimension?

And more importantly what happens to Einsteins famous equation?

E = mc2
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby ashley72 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:02 pm

A timeless dimension could be the event horizon - Light can't escape from. It is a boundary in spacetime beyond which events cannot affect an outside observer. In layman's terms it is defined as "the point of no return" i.e. the point at which the gravitational pull becomes so great as to make escape impossible. The most common case of an event horizon is that surrounding a black hole. Light emitted from beyond the horizon can never reach the observer.

Image

Does anyone else see a possible link between the nature of Consciousness and Black Hole physics? Holographic principle + Timeless dimension.... the insight was that the informational content of all the objects which have fallen into the hole can be entirely contained in surface fluctuations of the event horizon.
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby ashley72 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:48 pm

Snowheight wrote:it is worth noting that this pointer actually identifies an obvious literal fact-on-the-ground in that events that generate sensory input can be quantified in the amount of energy they generate and, in turn, by the amount of energy processed by a Quantum Observer in the observation of that event


What happens if we stop trying to fragment reality and saying that one separate thing, consciousness, interacts with another separate thing, a subatomic particle. Because all such things are aspects of the holomovement , it has no meaning to speak of consciousness and matter as interacting. In a sense, the observer is the observed. The observer is also the measuring device, the experimental results, the laboratory, and the breeze that blows outside the laboratory. In fact let's consider that consciousness is a more subtle form of matter, and the basis for any relationship between the two lies not in our level of reality, but deep in the implicate order. Consciousness is present in various degrees of enfoldment & unfoldment in all matter. Plasmas possess some of the traits of living things. The ability of form to be active is the most characteristic feature of mind, and we have something that is mindlike already with the electron.

Consciousness is a thought as well as the observer of a thought, as well as the non-observer of a thought... Again all are aspects of a holomovement.
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby hanss » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:53 pm

A personal observation, maybe negative energy... I don't have any idea what you guys are talking about. But the observation is that you are mixing things up and therefore makes it even more difficult to understand. With mixing things up I mean personal opinions mixed up with a theory, mixed up with some assumtion from a scientist, differnt dimensions and abstract layers, mixed up with spiritual concepts and so on. But most important, decide where you are looking from and talking from. What perspective/viewpoint. Cause they can not be mixed, it does not add up. It can't. In other words, if you stand on one side of a river and describe how the river looks from the other side and at the same time throw in some philosophical question why the fish in the river says the river is not a river and grass (growing by the riverside) is just an illusion as it can be seen or measured , the result can only be confusion for the writer and the reader. Now shoot me. But please, not with a gun from this dimension 8)
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby karmarider » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:26 pm

Well, it is about attention, but I'm not sure if it's helpful to think in terms of attention and energy. That gives the idea that it's about controlling attention.

For example, the whole movement about "positive thinking" and law of attraction and such, is about controlling attention--trying to keep attention on the positive and blissful. The effect is an effortful, controlled and restricted view of the world.

We can see the strong drive in people to reach for and hold onto blissful states. The ego wants credit for all the hard awakening work it's been doing--so it can be validating to hold on to thresholds.

That the drive to reach for and hold on to particular blissful or spiritual or meditative states is itself an obstacle is not something the mind can easily admit to.

It's more about attention on attention itself.
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby ashley72 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:21 pm

Hanss wrote:But most important, decide where you are looking from and talking from. What perspective/viewpoint


Fair comment. But the illusion is time! The holomovement is really the only scientific theory that I know of which attempts to describe a timeless "Oneness".

Eckhart Tolle points to a timeless "Oneness" dimension... The Present Moment.

I'm talking from an observation which occurs in the present moment. Where the observer and the observation or the observed are one in the same. No separation occurs. If you read my bit on black holes you might pick up that "light can not reach the observer!"

What I find interesting is in a black hole "separation" is forced (strong gravational forces) where forms are squashed into one.. However extreme separation occurs (where observer and observed are forcibly separated). The complete opposite of what occurs in the present moment... Where supposedly the observer and the observed are permitted to merge into one.

The holographic principle, The holographic universe, the holograhic brain theory, the holometer & the holomovement.... Is an emerging scientific theory of reality.
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby ashley72 » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:58 pm

karmarider wrote:Well, it is about attention, but I'm not sure if it's helpful to think in terms of attention and energy. That gives the idea that it's about controlling attention.


Fair point again. However, I was mainly looking at Eckhart Tolles pointers "dynamically. When a shift occurs from a time bound state of separation to a timeless Oneness. That shift is referred to as "Attention" or Awakening - where you can have attention on a time bound dimensions or a timeless dimension. The characteristic of a time bound dimension is separation. The characteristic of a timeless dimension is Oneness.

Enlightenment or Awakening Consciousness is the process of withdrawing energy from a lower dimension to higher dimension. Conscious Attention being "bound" inside or within a thought form could be defined as time bound state of separation. Conscious Attention observing a thought form could be defined as a timeless "unbound" state of oneness. Degrees of freedom are occurring within a holomovement.

Anyone who stays in the present moment is therefore "unbound" and gets a much greater perspective of the holomovement.
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby ashley72 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:44 am

A question, if being in the present moment is an "unbound" state of Oneness. Would Local Consciousness have a greater (larger in size) active or energized working area, than when separation occurs and Local Consciouness becomes bound or energized inside a thought form?

If you look at energy at it's most basic level as bits of information on a surface... You can start to understand the holomovement - A thought form is only one "bound" aspect of the whole information or perspective.

Image

Note: The Holographic Principle states... that the description of a volume of space should be thought of as "information" encoded on a two-dimensional surface.
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:37 am

Interesting thread Ash - I'm going to let my energy flow in this direction for awhile - because this is where my attention is.

That doesn't mean I am not noticing - the cars passing on the street outside, the leaves rustling in the wind, the tiny shiver of my knee cos it's cold down here, the hum of my computer fan, the plane flying overhead, or as I pause momentarily the pretty budding flower on a tree outside my window, now dancing in the wind. My attention scope is wide, but honing deeper here a little more than the rest of my energy flow.

The scientific journeying into this and the dark matter (5th element) observations does hold a fascination for me, but I confess because I've already experienced it in its pure form in the light (nde) and according to 'scientific' principles what happens has no explanation in science's understanding of time, energy, light etc. could be because they are seeing it with the resistance of human form and get uncomfortable on the edges of it. What applies naturally in most sciences they seem to not be able to comprehend in this area while in form. It's likely perception based on their values, needs.

This energy flow of attention - and the different vibrations is very much the basis of thoughts, actions, resistances and consciousness. The frequency is faster and lighter the more love and wholeness/oneness is ...

I like the river analogly Hanss and it's actually like that exponentially - there is oxygen bbbles in that river too and interactions between fish and river life and the outside air mass that is at a different frequency of movement too depending on the concentration of elements outside of itself. It becomes exponential according to mass characteristics - but think of the river as the moving energy force -even if it is thought, or if it is consciousness - the narrower the 'focus' the more confined the direction of the flow and the more 'resistance' it meets along the edges that it touches compared to the middle in depth, width and length where the water occasionally meets the 'resistance', object at a different density of matter, of a fish.

I'm reminded of the quote 'life is lived on the edge of your comfort zone' - the middle of the river or ocean in width and in depth and length and in height has less friction, more harmony - at the edges, earth and water have an interaction of elements of different frequencies, air and water have an interaction of elements of different frequencies.

Consciousness and unconsciousness - love and fear have different frequencies too but the frictions (attention) only occur when two different frequencies meet each other. When you are 'one mind' with another's point of view or what is there is no friction, no resistance, no thought.

This is true of every power/energy in action - electricity flows contentedly free until it meets another frequency, which becomes a conductor like a river honing away at the river bank, or the sea reshaping the landscape on beachfall, or in our bodies where 'elements' collide and create action - absorbed glucose is recognised as a different molecular structure and insulin secreted to 'absorb' the energy into our cells making it one with us. Sound vibrates against our ear-drum and is interpreted by its vibrationary rate - if you want awesome try and follow either of those flows to the oneness.

Fire is merely the combining of energies of heat, fuel and oxygen; restrict any of those elements and fire cannot occur. Whether we deem these 'good' or 'bad' depends on our point of view - where we are standing (understanding) on the river bank of the flows of energy.

Time was an interesting one for me in the light. It had no boundaries the 'now' was the 'all'.

Here it bends (in our attention and our perception) by our expectation and 'needs'.
“Time is too slow for those who wait, too swift for those who fear, too long for those who grieve, too short for those who rejoice, but for those who love, time is eternity. Henry van Dyke”

I remember the newness of this concept of time on my return to my body after the free flowing everythingness of the light energy freedom out of body. I remember sitting at my son's humidicrib watching his every breath pushed in and out by the ventilator force-feeding him oxygen and noticed it in action. Too long to wait if he was to recover, too soon to lose him if he didn't.

Even at the Dalai Lama event I met a young woman 32, dying of ovarian cancer. Her concept (reistance and suffering) based on her relatively short life expectancy. For someone who is gone in a moment with no time to acknowledge it, what a relative luxury of time she has. Sure she might be in physical pain, but relative to someone without the availability of pain medications, what is the energy level of her pain? It is all relative to perspective, to where your attention is.

Love and compassion for all situations, for all energy expressions doesn't judge one good or bad, it just is. And then it comes back to your suffering (the agitation of the energies) is equal to the distance between your expectation and reality.

So then the absorbing of the 'black holes' makes sense - just as glucose melting with the application of insulin and becoming one energy source for cells, fuel and heat and oxygen absorbing themselves to nothing like their individual properties by the combining of them at the right frequency leaving only ash - but whilst combining at those frequencies it is 'fire'.

A question, if being in the present moment is an "unbound" state of Oneness. Would Local Consciousness have a greater (larger in size) active or energized working area, than when separation occurs and Local Consciouness becomes bound or energized inside a thought form?


Absolutely!! It is the energy itself.
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby ashley72 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:10 am

Thanks Jen wonderful response.

smileyjen101 wrote:So then the absorbing of the 'black holes' makes sense - just as glucose melting with the application of insulin and becoming one energy source for cells, fuel and heat and oxygen absorbing themselves to nothing like their individual properties by the combining of them at the right frequency leaving only ash - but whilst combining at those frequencies it is 'fire'.


To me - black holes in outer space and black holes inside "the individual" have similar characteristics. The personal black hole within" is commonly refer to as depression. Both types of black holes are life denying. The only difference is the black hole inside you, is state where a person is embodying the thought forms or mental structure. The embodiment creates separation i.e "illusionary separation" between observer and observed , which in turn creates resistance and depression. An outer space black hole is a real physical separation between observer and observed.. which creates the depression and resistance.

An outer-space black hole is a kind of Cosmic Information Overload - which in it's most simple terms is the complete "bounding" of information.

In-form-ation :lol:
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:38 am

whiile reading your first lines above I was going NOOOOOOO ,,,,, NOOOOOOO..... NOOOOO...
aaahh! :lol:
resistance, resistance, resistance.. ahh... hmmm??? (what is it within me that is resisting this notion?)

Let me break this down - firstly I have no real idea of the black holes - of depression or of outer space, so I'm surmising here without knowledge of experience. I have asked the universe to help me understand depression (but don't really think I want to experience it, it seems that I would have to lower my vibration too much and frankly, I like lightness of being).

To me a black holes in outer space and black holes inside you have similar characteristics. The black hole inside you is commonly refer to as depression. Both types of black holes are life denying.

I guess I interpreted 'life denying' as 'death' (non-existence as interpreted by some here) when I first read this. On settling down and letting it 'be' it could merely be denying the reality of life (?) which allows me to read on in a more peaceful state.


The only difference is the black hole inside you - which is state where a person is embodying the thought forms or mental structure - creating separation an "illusionary separation" Between observer and observed dynamically... which creates resistance and depression.

Interesting isn't it... de-pression being the opposite to what ... ex-pression?
It leads me down the path of like scuba diving - but the roundness of the de-pressing, turning your being down, means that you resonate in a whole other area or 'environment'. Interestingly in the scuba diving notion that my mind's wandered to, light penetrates at the top say 10 feet and then through reflection at the bottom 10 feet as it bounces off the sea floor, maybe this is why some say they had to reach the 'bottom' before they 'saw the light'. The pea soup greyness in the middle, with no light is ... yuck. You can't even see your own hand before you. It's uncomfortable and lost .. and I've just realised I might have a notion of what it's like to be in a depression.

I also use the scuba diving notion to describe the feeling in the light. The first time I scuba dived was in about 10 metres of absolutely clear, pristine water with visibility to infinity, sunlight beaming through the water and back up from the sea floor - weightless, warm in my wetsuit, playing with gravity via the valves in my jacket making me lighter or heavier in resistance to the depths - part of our training was to depress the air in our buoyancy vests so we would sink - but not touch the bottom, then inflate the vest so we would rise, but not break the surface. I described it as being like in the light, only if this was a 10, the light was gazillions. Then I did a deep sea boat dive (and testing my claustrophobia awareness...eeeky) I hit the pea soup of 'nothingness', no light, and panicked. I now think I love diving from the shore and will go as deep as you like following the sea floor, but I'm not happy in the pea soup.

the light energy - so no-form (for me) is the absolute opposite to the pea soup, so that's likely why I was going nooooooooo!!!!

An outer space black hole is a real physical separation between observer and observed.. Which creates the depression and resistance.

Are you sure about that? Based on what information?
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Re: Where Attention goes Energy Flows

Postby ashley72 » Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:31 am

smileyjen101 wrote:Interesting isn't it... de-pression being the opposite to what ... ex-pression?


I love language thanks for sharing.

A black hole could be considered a cosmic in-form-ation overload.

Awakening is a process of en-form-ation... I love language. I also like the term enfolded and unfolded as used in the implicate order and explicate order theory...... And of course the word en-lightenment has it's place. :lol:
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