Thanks for taking the time to provide that insight.
This is good stuff. Here we can marvel at the irony of using conditioning to beat back conditioning ... to conceive and abstract the list of ills which mask what is inches from our nose and which is simplicity beyond conception. In worrying, avoiding, suppressing, expecting and telling stories, oblivion is chosen over reality -- all that apparent doing is actually anything but doing as the apparent doer is opting out of what the only thing that is real which is all around them and unnoticed due to the noise.the key master wrote:Once you get some foundational algorithms, and know what to look for, "spot checking" happens by itself. The big ones are, the tendency to repress, tendency to expect, tendency to seek a sense of self in past/future, tendency to avoid emotional pain, tendency to suppress desire, things like this. These are the ways you "avoid being lucid", which for one reason or another, is precisely what you want to be doing. So its less about figuring out how to be lucid, and more about figuring out why a certain someone doesnt want to be.
For the bold -- this is a great insight Jason ... in this perhaps it is labeling the activity of apparently deliberately allowing all that is not what is to fall away so that it can be recognized later from within the delusion as "practice" which is faulty -- note that this later recognition in time is not a goal, just a side-effect. These sessions do form somewhat of an anchor, however, so to speak.the key master wrote:Ok. But there already is no need to practice being what you already are. You're practicing because you want to practice. So, if there is intention to understand the dynamics of your practice, how its totally ineffectual to becoming something that you actually already are, the possibility to transcend the mind state brought about through the practice can "happen".snowey said,
Ultimately, I have formed a belief that a state at which there is no need for practice is perhaps possible and optimal, I also accept my current state is not that state. This next simply must be expressed in the comical formulation of ndspeak: that belief is treated about as seriously from this perspective as any other belief held within it these days.
Want to practice? That just might be right. Can't say for sure. The bench is on the running track and that is a habit from years back that allows for the consumption of calories without getting irritated or ballooning up. No planning involved in sitting, it happens. There are cycles to the sitting. Sometimes, as related in that thread, a desire will arise or a judgment will be made about the sit. Sometimes the uncanny clarity of perception and apparent action after a sit will feed that. There actually is no chase any longer. Sing us that Doris Day song Jason.
What I didn't own up to in that original post, and where want definitely comes into play is the habit of trying to catch at least a quick meditation session before I sit down to do the deskwork of the day ... it is entirely self-serving, but I've noticed also somewhat Self-serving if I speak to people and generate ideas and plans and follow those plans from a state of clarity. This doesn't really qualify as spiritual practice it is just a cross-pollination between the secular and the non-secular.
The history which is the subject of the contrition is clearly seen to be delusion, and none of that is forefront, but the contrition itself is real and more and more palpable. The one delusion that eludes the perspective is permanent freedom from delusion, and even as there is no delusional anticipation of some illusory future, while the perspective persists the opportunity will remain to learn from the chimeric past ... to refrain from repeating old mistakes. The contrition serves as a reminder about this -- as there is noone to be reminded, conceive of this as a constant gift from one moment to the next from within the perspective. The categorization of that past is a recognition of the humility inherent in the perspective, and what deeper delusion occurs higher-up on any possible list of categories of delusion than lack of humility?snowheight wrote: I say sorry for all the stupid stuff I’ve done and ask for the courage, strength and wisdom to lead the rest of my sorry-ass existence, what is left of it, as best I can.
the key master wrote:Please, for yourself, stop apologizing. There's nothing to be sorry about. I'm not saying to never apologize again, or that saying sorry is against the rules, I'm just saying, you seem to believe that certain things which did happen should not have happened, that if you could go back in time and change things, that you would. That needs to be looked at. (its delusional)
Don't make the mistake of reading into this that there is anyone to be humble, there isn't. A state of humility is the natural side-effect of recognizing the limitation of a unique perspective, and while that can be understood intellectually, it isn't really felt outside of a concurrent recognition of true nature, that is One, Indivisible, Beautiful Whole which is beyond description. Such is the paradox.
Yeah simple monkey-mind, or full-on deeply-nested recursive thinking, is not hard to miss ... once it has amped-up. It is the subtle hooks in the clockwork which, if caught early-on, can prevent the syndrome in the first place that are the apparent challenge -- apparent because of course at bottom there is no challenge to true nature, but to repeat, the delusion of being permanently free from delusion is eluded by the perspective.snowheight wrote:Watching the thinker has evolved into a more generalized watching and has flipped on itself. While I still watch for recursive thinking (a thought which was evoked by another thought, which can lead to yet another though evoked by that thought: “I’m hungry … I haven’t done the shopping … they started roadwork at the exit to the street with the best grocery … there are lots of guys on the construction crew who never seem to be doing anything as I drive by … my taxes are too high …), since this happens less and less I watch for other things: judgments not necessary to daily function, any hint of negative emotion, sneaky, sympathetic false-identification which plays to compassion, any “resting” of the mind on any sort of point which results in external fulfillment (this is the hardest so far!) … very long list here.
the key master wrote:Its monkey mind syndrome, in itself not indicative of a particular delusion, but the conditioned nature of mind and thinking. I think many delusional minds think they can transcend their own "conditionednessness". I also think, the "mind state of no mind" leads to the mental tendency to think that all thought has to be "lively, deep, and profound". This is probably a result from stupid ass guru's with surface level understandings of thought mechanics talking about their blinged out mind states. This is why I would focus less on a given mind state, and more on the dynamics at the root.
These subtle hooks change, dodge, bob and weave and inevitably pop up like whack-a-moles. They evolve. Softly accepting this is a good strategy.
The state of no-mind is many things: a respite, a position from which the mind may be used as a tool, a recognition of true nature, a place from which a sense of Oneness with Being may be felt. It is from the state of no-mind that the recognition of the comical fallacy of ownership of thought can be seen, and any tendency to think that any thought has to be anything is seen to be equally comical.
I completely understand and am actually quite grateful for your sounding of this alarm -- this is what I meant by "dangerous". I assure you that I have no such belief ... it is just that as the cycles progress the amplitudes of the monkey-mind diminish, as no-mind (or bridled mind, if you will) becomes the more common default state and there is less and less to watch it becomes easier to instead watch for a slipping away of this state ... now of course while the assumption of this state (by whom? by what? ... the mind? ... in that case such assumption is clear delusion ... no, the intent is to express an assumption beyond mind) might always be delusion, therein lies the "danger". Best not to take it all so seriously. Best to instead to realize that there is noone to take anything seriously.snowheight wrote:By flipped on itself what I mean is that I also maintain a positive watch for a felt sense of oneness with being, and the constant lapse of this watch is a pointer in and of itself. I’ve just had to accept the vast potential for self-delusion on this point, and while this is perhaps the most useful watching, it is also the most “dangerous” in a way, in that one can never be certain of the pointers.
the key master wrote:Hmm. This sounds like a classical seeking dynamic. A "positive watch" sounds like the mind believing that it can recognize that which is beyond mental recognition.