Contradictions

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Re: Contradictions

Postby ashley72 » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:46 pm

EternalPrize wrote:Ashley, in this instance is the "nounema" the underlying "objective reality" or whatever we call it? i.e. the heart, the lungs, etc doing their thing beneath the conscious levels of which we think of them existing?


Yes, that would be my interpretation as well, if the object (heart, lungs) doesn't appear to the senses it is no longer a phenomena in that moment. However, if the thinking mind was to latch onto the heart as an object it would go from noumenon -> phenomena ... and the mind may perceive its vulnerability, if this happens suffering arises. This has actually happened to me and the fear which arises can be quite stressful & debilitating. The only way I overcame this state, was by watching thoughts and inner body awareness. My heart no longer conditioned to become a phenomena, so I'm now conditioned to let it be!
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Re: Contradictions

Postby EternalPrize » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:32 am

ashley72 wrote:
EternalPrize wrote:Ashley, in this instance is the "nounema" the underlying "objective reality" or whatever we call it? i.e. the heart, the lungs, etc doing their thing beneath the conscious levels of which we think of them existing?


Yes, that would be my interpretation as well, if the object (heart, lungs) doesn't appear to the senses it is no longer a phenomena in that moment. However, if the thinking mind was to latch onto the heart as an object it would go from noumenon -> phenomena ... and the mind may perceive its vulnerability, if this happens suffering arises. This has actually happened to me and the fear which arises can be quite stressful & debilitating. The only way I overcame this state, was by watching thoughts and inner body awareness. My heart no longer conditioned to become a phenomena, so I'm now conditioned to let it be!


Not quite sure what you mean, let me see if I have it right. The way I am beginning to look at it, "consciousness" is just a tool the body uses and can get lost in. Our heart, lungs, cells, and so forth objectively exist, although in a way we cannot understand because the very idea of existence occurs within consciousness. And this is an important thing to understand if you want to live well. When you have that feeling "in the heart," understand that the feeling you feel is *just* a feeling within your conscious dream body, but it is nonetheless of a sign of something happening within the "actual body." Understanding this allows you to take a much more gentler approach, in my opinion. It confuses me when spiritual teachers completely deny objective reality. I mean, I'm sure it could bear no resemblance to conscious subjective reality, it could even all exist within a non-existence zero-dimensional non-space... but there is still that happening that is not registered by our conscious experience.

Anyway, most of the time, our bodies operate just fine without being grabbed onto by this realm of conscious experience (which is again, a tool of the body). However, various things still get registered in consciousness. Feelings in the body, the room, and so forth and so on are constantly occurring. The "aliveness" and what we call "witness" of it is just a trait of this evolutionary tool. "I" is a dangerous assumption to make, but I think just as dangerous and confusing is the idea that this is being witnessed at all, or that it occurs within "consciousness." The alive factor is simply included within the actual appearance, and is completely ineffable. You just have to let it be as it is.

And therefore, we are really our whole body (and by extension actually the whole universe). By mistaking this visual, sense-filled world as something other than simple a function of the body equal with anything else such as the heart beating, we are not living in reality. Just because this is witnessed or alive does not mean it is any more important than all the various factors that are not witnessed or not occurring within this tool.

And that is why death doesn't exist. Is because existence is literally manifested by the body, simply as a tool. Spiders spin webs without any intention of giving us silk, and the body generates what we later call reality with no intention of us doing that. Nothing dies, nothing was born. It was consciousness, always the same, and yet incredibly variable.

Sorry if that was a pointless post. Does this sound on-tune?
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Re: Contradictions

Postby Testigo » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:49 am

UNITY OF THE UNIVERSE
I don't have any doubt that we are Being playing a human role. And I don't have any doubt that we are One with the entire Universe and that individuality as a person, an ego, is nothing else but an illusion.
So, when death occurs, it sounds natural to me that we will come back to the dimension where we allways have been, where we belong, to the universal unity of the cosmos, "Home".
In the very seldom occasions in which Eckhart slightly touchs the edge of the issue of reincarnation I allways get the impression that he, with his subtle sense of humor often used the explanation that he is not a dead master, eludes the obvios interrogant that keeps floating in the air related to the question: Being every one of us one with the Totallity, and seen clearly that individuality is just an illusion created by the mind, then what or who is that unity, that individual that supposedly reincarnates?
TESTIGO

To land Here and Now
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