Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

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tod
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by tod » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:04 am

Midnight wrote:It feels like it needs attention, like I need to get acquainted with it, but I'm not sure whether to just watch it (feels like I'm ignoring it) or get 'involved' as it were.
I would say just watch it. As seen here, watching is not ignoring, it is keeping an aware (loving) space open for the sensations to be as they are, moment to moment.

SirNikalot
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by SirNikalot » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:24 am

Yeah, I agree with Tod. I've been doing this lately myself. Just watching the emotions, fears, and embarrassing thoughts attached to those feelings. I think its also important to do this without having the agenda of expecting to get rid of them, let them stay for as long as they want to stay.

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ZenDrumming
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by ZenDrumming » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:05 am

Sounds like repressed emotions/feelings coming to the surface. Once you allow them to express themselves, you can release them. Embrace them, and bathe in the joy of knowing that you can feel such feelings. Being human is quite the experience :D

randomguy
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by randomguy » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:26 am

I'm sure it's an emotional issue but god knows how to find a way out right now.
Out? What's that?
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

Pako Chubi
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by Pako Chubi » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:07 am

Midnight wrote:A peculiar phenomenon I've noticed recently:

If I focus on the sense of anxiety in the background of daily living, alot of tension comes up and I can almost feel a voice in the back of my head screaming, trying to release all this past pain and anger. It's violent and loud.

When I focus to it, it feels as if all my past memories and familiar notions come from there, as well as familiar sensations. Tears can come and some shaking in the body as I put attention onto it. It feels like it needs attention, like I need to get acquainted with it, but I'm not sure whether to just watch it (feels like I'm ignoring it) or get 'involved' as it were.

What the hell is this?

Recently I discovered that if I can observer negative emotions and thoughts, I already have the power to completely stop them. In fact, that power is nothing more than the observation itself and the surrendered intention to stop it at the first time, to stop giving energy to them.
Many masters and teachings (specially in new age) claim that we cannot stop any emotion or thought, that we just have to observe them, that if we try to stop them we will repress them or will loose energy. That's not completely true, and it is in the mind of MANY people this belief.
In the moment you have a negative thought or an emotion, if you can be enough aware, you can look at it and stop there. No more thoughts after that, no more emotions. You don't need to be there observing and observing until you hope the emotions dissolves or the mind stop thinking. You see it, you see the negativity in it, and then you stop it. Then the brain gets the signal that "this is not a necessary thought or emotion", so it will stop creating it.
Then, of course, you have to stay aware, to stay in tune with the inner silence. If not you will create another different thought or another different emotion, and suffer again...

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Midnight
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by Midnight » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:54 pm

Observing doesn't end anything.. it just makes you feel disconnected and aloof in relation to whats happening.. your already observing anyway, it's not like its a conscious decision.

I just want some damn answers. Inquiry did this to me - why? Why did not being able to find a particular 'me' anywhere create this particular mind state where all my past memories and impressions seem to have disappeared completely? Why has the anxiety escalated now that the 'story in the head' is not playing much anymore??

unbornawakened
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by unbornawakened » Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:27 pm

If you have truly awakened, yet feel worse than before, I suggest the following remedy:
1) say nothing to others about this - pretend you are a happy enlightened awakened buddha
2) learn to speak like some of the spiritual teachers on the net - watch videos and read 24 hours, practice in front of a mirror
3) say something provocative and new for product differentiation
4) make sure to say that you are not the messiah, not the buddha but a simple ordinary fellow who found the light
3) begin to gather disciples, wait for them to grow ... pick a good place where moneyed people abound (London sounds about right)

once you gather enough disciples and a growing clientele, you will have no more anxiety
1) cash will keep flowing, no more financial anxiety or worry about having to work
2) dozens, hundreds, or thousands will direct their energy, love, attention to you - you will feel loved, appreciated (if not more)
3) finally, the world will start looking like heaven ... that is until, some physical ailment starts to strike you, but in the meantime you will be fine

tod
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by tod » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:33 am

Midnight wrote:
Inquiry did this to me - why?
Because that is what is intended with inquiry.
Why did not being able to find a particular 'me' anywhere create this particular mind state where all my past memories and impressions seem to have disappeared completely?
"Not being able to find a particular me" includes not being able to find personal memories and impressions.
Why has the anxiety escalated now that the 'story in the head' is not playing much anymore??
Because thought is operating, attempting to stage a comeback to its former hold over you.
Observing doesn't end anything..
You observe that something has ended, don't you? (And thought wants it back again).
it just makes you feel disconnected and aloof in relation to whats happening..
That is not you feeling disconnected and aloof; that is a thought construct, a self image, a thought form, sensing something has ended, and denoting this absence negatively, ie thinking this absence unpleasant.
your already observing anyway, it's not like its a conscious decision.
Yes, you are observing anyway, and, as you say, this is not a conscious decision.

But just observe (be aware) that you do not make an unconscious decision and thus get involved in thought unconsciously.

rontant
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by rontant » Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:55 am

The aim of living in the present moment is to alleviate or minimize sufferings, but if you think it doesn't work for you, then by all means do what you think is suitable for you, dwell in the past, project the future, etc. You don't need to ask anyone to give your 'me' back. The 'me', the 'ego' is always with you just like your shadow. You cannot get rid of it other than asking it to take a back seat instead of a driver's seat. If you like it to take the driver's seat, go ahead and make your day. If later you don't like his driving, you can always take over the steering wheel. This is not like mafia , triad or some other thuggish organizations or even religious cult where you are stuck for life and are not permitted to leave. Be cool and be mindful. Enjoy the ride! :wink:

randomguy
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by randomguy » Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:42 am

I just want some damn answers.
Said the man with his head in the tiger's mouth, "I simply need a more sophisticated explanation."
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

GiveUpTheGhost
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by GiveUpTheGhost » Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:34 pm

Midnight,

I'm not sure I can add anything which will ease your suffering, though I will say that I have experienced the state you are describing and somehow managed to recover from it (although it is probably unhelpful to think about it in those terms). I was emotionally numb for many years and am only just starting to emerge from that (funny that I wanted to feel emotions for so long, now it's happening it's actually quite scary but worth it I guess), thanks to ET. Another similarity I noticed is your dismissal of the importance of 'watching the thinker', I also used to believe that this somehow didn't apply to me at one point as it seemed I didn't have this constant mental chatter that ET talks about. When I finally got around to properly exploring the technique of watching mind activity it was effective in rooting me in my body and thus reconnecting with emotion. As difficult as it sounds, it does help to make peace with your limitations, so often I tortured myself wishing to feel differently, my craving for aliveness keeping me stuck in resistance. I hope you start feeling better.

Rob
Gather up the lost and their souls...

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Midnight
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by Midnight » Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:24 pm

randomguy wrote:
I just want some damn answers.
Said the man with his head in the tiger's mouth, "I simply need a more sophisticated explanation."
Head in the tigers mouth? Who knows anymore.

If you felt like I did, you would wish for an explanation, any explanation would be good. If you KNOW atleast to some extent WHY a particular mental state or feeling is appearing, it makes it much easier to deal with because you can rationalise and take a logical approach, e.g: "I have a headache" 'why' "Because I drank too much last night".

That's a very basic example but what I'm trying to say is that so called 'problems' like that are very straight forward. Your not sitting in limbo wondering what happened, you know the reason for the problem - you got too pissed, it's your own damn fault etc etc - you accept it's presence and move on. With a mental state like this you can't do that because there's no standard explanation for why it's happening.

I've had chats with several people on this forum and on others. I'm not entirely sure but my best bet is that the self-inquiry (being as potent as it is) blocked out the emotions stemming from the sense of being a separate person, either that or all of the painful emotions and conditioning came to the surface through the inquiry which was just too much for me to handle.

All my emotions seemed very personal, all about the little me, so when it was seen that the little me was imagination, it felt as if the emotions became stuffed back down into my body.

It's a completely new way of functioning. I can't feel pain anymore to the same extent. Painful memories disappear within a few seconds (well my entire memory is now FUBAR but I've said that a thousand times).


The derealization/depersonalization is an EFFECT of a CAUSE. I just can't for the life of me figure out what the cause IS exactly.


Whether to fully feel the repressed emotions with the body and really get involved in them OR whether to stay in the position of the witness and potentially become MORE repressed is the question.

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eurovillle_was_nice
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by eurovillle_was_nice » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:55 pm

Midnight wrote:
randomguy wrote:
I just want some damn answers.
Said the man with his head in the tiger's mouth, "I simply need a more sophisticated explanation."
Head in the tigers mouth? Who knows anymore.

If you felt like I did, you would wish for an explanation, any explanation would be good. If you KNOW atleast to some extent WHY a particular mental state or feeling is appearing, it makes it much easier to deal with because you can rationalise and take a logical approach, e.g: "I have a headache" 'why' "Because I drank too much last night".

That's a very basic example but what I'm trying to say is that so called 'problems' like that are very straight forward. Your not sitting in limbo wondering what happened, you know the reason for the problem - you got too pissed, it's your own damn fault etc etc - you accept it's presence and move on. With a mental state like this you can't do that because there's no standard explanation for why it's happening.

I've had chats with several people on this forum and on others. I'm not entirely sure but my best bet is that the self-inquiry (being as potent as it is) blocked out the emotions stemming from the sense of being a separate person, either that or all of the painful emotions and conditioning came to the surface through the inquiry which was just too much for me to handle.

All my emotions seemed very personal, all about the little me, so when it was seen that the little me was imagination, it felt as if the emotions became stuffed back down into my body.

It's a completely new way of functioning. I can't feel pain anymore to the same extent. Painful memories disappear within a few seconds (well my entire memory is now FUBAR but I've said that a thousand times).


The derealization/depersonalization is an EFFECT of a CAUSE. I just can't for the life of me figure out what the cause IS exactly.


Whether to fully feel the repressed emotions with the body and really get involved in them OR whether to stay in the position of the witness and potentially become MORE repressed is the question.

Midnight,

I´m going through the exact same bullsh*t as you are, I swear... THE EXACT SAME THING !!! All your words, all your descriptions about what you are witnessing, say to me it´s the same.

I have this after my inquiry, it´s been 2 months or more being stuck on this damned thing. It sucks so bad, reading your stuff about it feels very strange, strange timing, strangely similar, it´s just weird.

I´m reading Jed Mckenna,
I got sense enough to not pretend I got advice. There is no advice, there can´t be.

Wanna go back to Pleasantville ? Yeah, me too! The place freaggin` rocked !!! I wanna hook myself back up into the matrix ;p
I believe I can´t though,

sorry, got nothing to tell ya but this.

Rubber Soul
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by Rubber Soul » Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:21 am

You're probably just "depersonalized", Midnight.

the key master
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Re: Oh hey - I'd like 'me' back please

Post by the key master » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:04 am

Hi Midnight. You mention an escalation in anxiety now that the story in the head isn’t playing much anymore. We could say inquiry “did this to you”. It might point closer to say that “mind is doing this to itself”, and it just doesn’t know why. So let’s forget about the philosophical hocus pocus and take a look at the underlying thought mechanics which are forming the boundaries to your current mind state.

An “unconscious thought process in the mind” is a thought process that mind implicitly doesn’t know about. The ironic aspect of this is that mind “does actually know about it”, just not on a conscious level. So now we are using our minds to differentiate between two thought processes, conscious and unconscious, particularly in relation to the escalation of anxiety which you are experiencing. You, mind, are creating this escalation in anxiety because you want to, even if unconsciously. The surface level manifestation of anxiety is conscious and known, recognized and remembered, while the underlying cause, isn’t. (The cause---->(wanting to be separate for some reason, often for emotional protection, which can be directly correlated to the belief that “I am a special separate self that wants to stay separate because of how special I am”.)) Of course, out here in the dreamworld, we are all unique snowflakes, or whatever.

Coupled with the escalation of anxiety we see mind thinking that memories and impressions have disappeared. It’s important that mind understands what exactly it means by this. Do you mean that you are thinking about the separate self that was never you to begin with less than before? Let’s go a little deeper. Mind doesn’t actually “exist”, so we could also say it need not go anywhere or do anything, while keeping in mind “the simple idea” that the body, or body-mind even, is just a dream character. Along these lines, the mind is the separate self. Mind and body are not separate. Consciousness and mind are never separate. Mind unconscious of its own tendencies and motivations is simply consciousness unconscious that it’s conscious. Put another way, creator “becomes ignorant of its own creation”, which is precisely what “allows the becoming conscious process to happen”.

As consciousness you aren’t looking for a mind state, although we could say you are looking for the unconsciousness which holds mind states together. Noticing facilitates transformation. Its not the experience which is noticed which matters, but the realization that you are what is noticing. Anxiety seems to be playing an intricate role in your current mind state, and it is the anxiety which you must reverse yourself into. Anxiety is happening because you want it to be happening. By thinking otherwise mind is creating a line and declaring war with itself. That’s called mind splitting, which can be noticed and likewise consciously resolved.

If we are talking about experience, we are talking about projection. All movement is a mental projection, which isn’t to say we should denounce or deny movement, only see and understand what “sort of substance” we are dealing with, which is to say, a very flimsy one that must be constantly recreated and managed in order to bind anyone in any way. The mind is what dreams are made of, meaning, a shoddy foundation on moving soil. If what is manifested is your dream, your creation, your reflection, who's driving the dreambus, and can someone provide the driver with directions to the nearest cliff?

Reverse your way into anxiety when it arises. RE-“mind” yourself that you want anxiety, so that you can begin to understand why. If you fear anxiety, you are literally fearing and thus unconsciously managing your own mind and emotional body(the essence of the delusional mental framework). I do think the anxiety is calling for your attention. Don’t be surprised if thinking about it only suppresses it more. “Giving attention to” and “thinking about” really aren’t the same thing, because if you are thinking about it your attention is more than likely on the “thinking about it” as opposed to the anxiety. Rather, we think about the mechanics to understand the “resistance which is created and sustained by the delusional framework of the mind”, and then allow whatever energy which is yearning to be expressed to be felt. While I do sometimes say to “want the anxiety”, or “want what is being resisted”---allowing energy (which may include thoughts and emotions) to come and go, arise and fall, is an accurate pointer to the seamless stateless state I am projecting you toward. Make some choicecless choices hehe, or, more importantly, embrace the illusion of choice, and the ability to dream, with the intention to weed out the illusion of control. Then see what happens to the illusion of choice.

You seem to already understand that “trying to observe” isn’t something “which can actually be done”. Noticing doesn’t happen, although it seems like it does from the individuated aspect which is noticed. This individuated aspect which is noticed is sometimes called a mind, person, or dream character. On that note-->

All relative aspects project out from a universal mind, which “seems to know a thing or two” about creating experience to bring issues from the subconscious and unconscious levels of relative mind “out onto the playing field”. In this way, conscious intention to become conscious can not only affect what is created in what appears to be “out there”, it can also lead to a very clear seeing that everything that happens does so “right here”, right in your bosom. The creative aspect of creation is raw intelligence, which has absolutely nothing to do with how smart me or you are or could ever be.

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