Since awakening...

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Amorbis
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:45 pm

Since awakening...

Post by Amorbis » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:24 am

DO you continue indiscriminately keeping in touch and interacting with "unconscious" networks of people? (friends, relatives) Or DO you now purposefully try to search for more "conscious"/"awakened" individuals like yourself?, both? Does it matter to you?

Do you try to make your "unconscious" relatives/friends, etc more "awakened", "conscious" by trying to get them to read the books, teaching them about presence, etc?

18andlife
Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: Since awakening...

Post by 18andlife » Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:09 pm

Amorbis wrote:DO you continue indiscriminately keeping in touch and interacting with "unconscious" networks of people? (friends, relatives) Or DO you now purposefully try to search for more "conscious"/"awakened" individuals like yourself?, both? Does it matter to you?
Interesting question. To me, in terms of association it really doesn't matter that much if someone is "unconscious" or not.

I once heard it said so brilliantly in a simile: "an awakened being dealing with an unconscious being is just like this: it's as if there's a giant slow moving river and lone man comes up to the river holding a torch and starts making threats to the river that he's going to evaporate it using the torch. Obviously the river has no fear over what the man intends to do, and no concern over what the man attempts to do."

For me associating with unconscious people feels very much like that.

They seem so small compaired to the love that surrounds them. Even if unconscious people are very unskillful in their intensions and actions, it really doesn't have much of an impact on an awakened being in terms of associating with them.
Do you try to make your "unconscious" relatives/friends, etc more "awakened", "conscious" by trying to get them to read the books, teaching them about presence, etc?
I think ET said it very well in PON when he commented that if you take a log that's not burning very brightly and place it into the fire next to a log that is already very much ablaze then a natural process will take place that causes the first log to burn much more radiantly than it would if it was left on it's own. In my experience that natural process can take countless forms; it could be teaching about presence or reading books, or it could be kindness and compassion. But no matter what form it takes there is no trying or intension necessary; it's a completely natural process.

..

I hope that it doesn't rub anyone the wrong way that I presumed to answer from an awakened persective. If I answer thus the only reason I do so is to tell you sincerely: take heart, awakening in this very lifetime is possible.

Rubber Soul
Posts: 83
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:09 pm

Re: Since awakening...

Post by Rubber Soul » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:59 pm

Have either of you actually awakened?

In my opinion, a true sign of awakening is not being able to be insulted by anything. Not taking anything personally.

rontant
Posts: 101
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:01 pm

Re: Since awakening...

Post by rontant » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:14 am

Rubber Soul wrote:In my opinion, a true sign of awakening is not being able to be insulted by anything. Not taking anything personally.
I think so too. Sometime all it takes is just one single honk from the car behind and we lose it all. :wink:

18andlife
Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: Since awakening...

Post by 18andlife » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:13 am

Rubber Soul wrote:Have either of you actually awakened?
Awakeness has awakened, it doesn't have much to do with me, but if you're asking me for an answer, then yes.

In my experience it seems to really rub people the wrong way when someone presumes to answer from an awakened perspective. But I've been through enough suffering in my time to understand the gravity of claiming such a thing if it wasn't true. I wouldn't risk that anyone would take stock in anything I have to say if I wasn't 100% certain about what I was saying. I'm not here fool anyone, most especially not myself; as I said before I just want others to know awakening is possible. That's about the only thing I can really offer, but I offer it sincerely.
Rubber Soul wrote:In my opinion, a true sign of awakening is not being able to be insulted by anything. Not taking anything personally.
It's probably as good a benchmark as any. :wink: Just to elaborate on that if I may: I would say that a true sign of awakening would be a matter of seeing the feeling of being insulted as being completely irrelivant rather than assuming that such a thing as feeling insulted could not arrise in a "since awakening" scenario. If the causes and conditions are there for such a thing to arise, it will arise, but awakening would most definitely effect the degree of attachment to the arising, and the degree of clairity to which the arising is perceived.

18andlife
Posts: 392
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: Since awakening...

Post by 18andlife » Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:21 am

rontant wrote:Sometime all it takes is just one single honk from the car behind and we lose it all. :wink:
Ain't that the beautiful truth! It's not uncommon to throw a few bricks through other people's windshields before we have a few breakthroughs of a different kind. :D

Blenderhead
Posts: 453
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Location: Denmark

Re: Since awakening...

Post by Blenderhead » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:00 am

Eckhart experienced a dramatic shift, but we all experience a gradual awakening, it's a process - not either or. The terms awakened, unawakened are merely words, signposts. They should not be used to label other people, but they are merely practical words to help us relate to this process. In reality there are millions of different states of consciousness, no one is completely awake or completely asleep, I think. We can always go deeper.

unbornawakened
Posts: 338
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Re: Since awakening...

Post by unbornawakened » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:55 am

Very balanced and wise statement !
Blenderhead wrote:Eckhart experienced a dramatic shift, but we all experience a gradual awakening, it's a process - not either or. The terms awakened, unawakened are merely words, signposts. They should not be used to label other people, but they are merely practical words to help us relate to this process. In reality there are millions of different states of consciousness, no one is completely awake or completely asleep, I think. We can always go deeper.

unbornawakened
Posts: 338
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:09 am

Re: Since awakening...

Post by unbornawakened » Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:05 am

My guess is that as one rises above many of one's own petty characteristics, one is less likely to associate with those who are stubborn and confrontational with their pettiness. Neither benefits from this interaction. However, it is not often so black and white. Most people are reasonable, and there is no reason to dissociate from friends and acquaintances. My guess is that as one becomes more awakened, it becomes easier to overlook people's flaws and accept them as they are (as long as they are not consistently aggressive, confrontational, and mean ... in which case, it is best to leave them alone). At the same time, it will be more difficult to share deeper feelings with those with whom you do not resonate anymore - so the friendship may be scaled down a bit.

And yes, I think it is a good idea to seek new associations and seek like minded people. This can be a great help.

As for the second part, in my experience unsolicited advice is not welcome. If someone asks for some kind of help or advice, by all means give it your best shot. But don't proselytize. There is enough information out there for those who are seeking it, and they will find it if they want to. If you feel someone could benefit for advice, but is not asking for it, try to be very indirect about it, only hinting or suggesting some possibilities and see how they react.
Amorbis wrote:DO you continue indiscriminately keeping in touch and interacting with "unconscious" networks of people? (friends, relatives) Or DO you now purposefully try to search for more "conscious"/"awakened" individuals like yourself?, both? Does it matter to you?

Do you try to make your "unconscious" relatives/friends, etc more "awakened", "conscious" by trying to get them to read the books, teaching them about presence, etc?

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