Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

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Midnight
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Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by Midnight » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:54 am

Listen, I'm so numb it feels like nothings happening - ever.

Be careful of these teachings because what has happened to me I wouldn't wish upon anyone.

I'm so numb even the concept of numb doesn't cover it. There's nothing wrong with your ego or your sense of self. Learn to forgive yourself and accept who you are.



Following self-inquiry is not going to solve any of your problems, if anything (in my case) it just appears to numb them to the extent that your memory of them is totally wiped out and all impressions of past experience go aswell - sweet.............


It feels as if I'm dead - like life is on only a quarter of the volume it was on before, same with vision and experiences.
All memories seem vague and disconnected, like they never happened, even beautiful memories of my childhood appear so distant I can barely remember them - almost as if they happened to someone else.

Do you really want this to happen to you?
I think spirituality has psychological ramifications that many people won't admit to, but instead of speculation I thought I'd give a 100% real lif experience of what these teachings can do to you. I go all day without thinking of my loved ones or friends, not by choice but because it feels like my mind is totally empty.

fuck this

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Webwanderer
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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:54 am

Thanks Midnight. You offer a valuable illustration of what happens when one only perceives half the reality of being human. (Ego is a imaginary self that can be seen through.) While I went through the same self inquiry as is suggested in these teachings, I also took up the rest of what makes life enjoyable once the truth of ego is known. My life is now better and more enjoyable than it has ever been before, and my experience continues to improve. I agree with Midnight that stopping half way can cause a painful emptiness. The good news is, it's not necessary to remain in such pain. Life can be a joy - even for you Midnight.

WW

18andlife
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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by 18andlife » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:13 am

"A fool may be happy until his mischief turns against him
and a good man may suffer until his goodness blossoms.
" ~Buddha.

You're a good man Capt Midnight. Hang in there!

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ashley72
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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by ashley72 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:40 am

Midnight,

Firstly I respect you greatly for speaking out about your situation.... Your posts are very genuine and I hope one day you're able to taste life again. :D

I posted this another thread, but this seems relevant to your difficult transition.

From A Course In Consciousness.

The practice of inquiry can lead to a temporary state of detachment that can be quite disconcerting. The ego thinks this is a problem but, like all ego problems, it eventually passes. In the August 2006 issue of the Advaita Fellowship Newsletter, Wayne Liquorman (one of Ramesh's enlightened students) says,

"One of the most discouraging and unpleasant phases in the evolution of this Understanding is the point at which you find yourself feeling remote and disconnected from all that is happening around you. It as if the world has gone completely grey -- nothing is important, nothing hurts particularly badly but nothing feels particularly joyous either. You're not really depressed but you're not really happy -- everything has a sameness about it.
"Such a condition often coincides with the initial recognition that you are not truly the author of your thoughts, feelings or actions. It is as if the ego, having been exposed for what it ISN'T shifts its involvement into a new gear. No longer able to claim to be the author it now poutingly claims that there is nothing worth authoring. Yes, it is another lie but it is a persuasive one. As with the previous lie, the lie of personal authorship, a possible solution is to fix it in the bright light of inquiry. Is it true? Is the appearance the reality?
"Eventually the clouds disperse and the greyness goes with it. The landscape of life is once again illuminated in all its beauty and all its ugliness...all its joys and all its sorrows...what is seen is what has always been there...an infinite, fantastic diversity."

xkatex
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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by xkatex » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:17 am

The emptiness really hurts sometimes, but it only hurts because you're not letting it open inside of you. I know it's hard to open to it because it hurts so much and everything feels so dead but what other choice do you have? Everything's going to feel dead and empty if you continue to avoid the void. Why not just trust the process, allow it to be and let it blossom into aliveness? I know this is very easy for me to say, but I've been where you are.

Adyashanti puts it really well in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7QxyxdDoKQ
Also, there are two videos about 'watertreading the void' and how people try and avoid their emptiness. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtrG2dx4Ro0

You're looking at emptiness from the ego, and that emptiness means its death, so of course it will feel numb. But sink into it.


I thought I'd try and cheer you up with one of my favourite story/songs from when I was really little, because I think it's got a good message :)
We're Going on a Bear Hunt

(children repeat each line after adult)

We're going on a bear hunt,
We're gonna catch a big one,
What a beautiful day,
We're not scared.
Oh ,oh!
Grass,
Long, wavy, grass.
We can't go over it,
We can't go under it,
We've gotta go throught it!
Swishy swashy, swishy swashy.
I put an extract on here from Stephan Bodian. I think it might make a lot of sense to you. http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... ian#p74657

Blessings :)

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by randomguy » Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:42 am

ww wrote:I agree with Midnight that stopping half way can cause a painful emptiness. The good news is, it's not necessary to remain in such pain.
I'd like to examine just what that "stopping" is. Really simply, it is resistance. It is the same habbit of arguing with 'what is' that humanity has absolutely mastered. It looks so odd to me to see a statement like "f* this". It is odd because it can only be said about one's self. There is no other speaker and there is no other target. "This" is the privelege of existence from which by way of confusion one can declare it's suckiness. But would one who says this really rather not exist? Outside of thought, this cannot be true. It just may be that there is an argument that says the state of existence should be something other than what is experienced. Entertain such silly notions and wallow in delusions of suckiness. The antidote is to just let it be as it is. The antidote is to drop the argument and find how even an empty-state experience has a positive core to it. That positivity may be just a distant shiny little acorn that radiates "yes". It may be only a tiny joy associated with being. It may be only a little light in a grey cloud. But finding it and dropping what is false, allows the emptiness to no longer be seen as emptiness, it allows 'what is' to be seen as only what one cannot know should be otherwise. Being open to not knowing, being open to surrender invites the other half of the death of the completely ridiculous. Allow it, and be open to realizations that real life is already provided and that freedom is naturally here.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

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Midnight
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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by Midnight » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:47 pm

I was quite drunk when i wrote this - point still stands though! Cheers for replies

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by heidi » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:52 pm

Midnight - (((Here's a cyber hug!))) :D Your willingness to be so open, honest and vulnerable in this business of dying to yourself feels to me like you are being swept down the river of acceptance (albeit kicking and screaming sometimes) into the realization of clarity. You are young, and for an oldie like me, I admire what you are doing here. You're ahead of the game! Take comfort in the emptiness, wallow in it, as when allowed to be as it is, it is exactly the state of presence you've been seeking, and it's from there - the emptiness that includes everything - that you'll find yourself laughing at the illusions you've been taking so seriously.
Onward and forward
xo
Heidi
http://www.heidimayo.com
wonderment on the third wave

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by HermitLoon » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:30 pm

We come from foreverness and return to foreverness - and in between, with strong doses of the survival instinct and lots of conditioning, the mind/body does its thing.
Acceptance allows a joyful journey.
Peace

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:41 pm

randomguy wrote: It just may be that there is an (ego) argument that says the state of existence should be something other than what is experienced.
Thanks randomguy.

Of all the words in the human language it may be that 'should', and it's evil twin 'should not', are the lowest of the low. They are more debilitating to a joyful experience than a daily root canal. The unconscious judgment that accompanies such pronouncements separate us from whatever possibilities that may exist to find value in what is, regardless of appearances.

Fortunately the evil 'should' angels have a loving partner that stands ever ready to lead us out of our morose. Replace 'should' with 'could' and a world of wondrous possibilities opens up if we just use the word honestly and allow it to shape our focus. Example: "Life should be better than this", makes life wrong. However, "life could be better than this" makes better possible. Feel the difference in energy of these two focuses. The reality is that the latter is true where the former is a denial of how things currently are. Live in painful denial or live in appreciation of truth. Each of us gets to decide our own focus and that decision will shape our experience in whatever conditions arise.

WW

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by eurovillle_was_nice » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:35 pm

Midnight wrote:Listen, I'm so numb it feels like nothings happening - ever.

Be careful of these teachings because what has happened to me I wouldn't wish upon anyone.

I'm so numb even the concept of numb doesn't cover it. There's nothing wrong with your ego or your sense of self. Learn to forgive yourself and accept who you are.



Following self-inquiry is not going to solve any of your problems, if anything (in my case) it just appears to numb them to the extent that your memory of them is totally wiped out and all impressions of past experience go aswell - sweet.............


It feels as if I'm dead - like life is on only a quarter of the volume it was on before, same with vision and experiences.
All memories seem vague and disconnected, like they never happened, even beautiful memories of my childhood appear so distant I can barely remember them - almost as if they happened to someone else.

Do you really want this to happen to you?
I think spirituality has psychological ramifications that many people won't admit to, but instead of speculation I thought I'd give a 100% real lif experience of what these teachings can do to you. I go all day without thinking of my loved ones or friends, not by choice but because it feels like my mind is totally empty.

fuck this

WHOOOAAA..... thanks for that brother! It feels great to see somebody going/ or went through the same thing!

Thank you for your oppeness.

In wine lies truth they say :lol:

Good work there, now it´s time to "play around" with shit. who-hoo.... Yeah buddy*

Sorry for writing like a moron, had to get it of my chest!

PS: No regrets :mrgreen:

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by unbornawakened » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:39 pm

Indeed.

We have all been programmed with shoulds and should nots since childhood, beginning with parents, continuing with school, and then the workplace. You "should" work harder, you should do this work even if you don't like it or else I will fire you, etc. I understand you are referring to self-judgment, but that habit has been introduced and reinforced externally. In today's world, even if you have managed to deprogram yourself from constant self-judging, it is rare that this will be supported at the workplace (though there may be exceptions when you really like what you are doing, perhaps artists may feel that way ... however, business is business, and shoulds and should nots will enter the equation at some point).

One problem with some of these precepts, is that the world at large does not support them. To be seen as successful most often you must have a big ego, and be driven by fear, rewards, shoulds and should nots. How many can make the transition to a lifestyle and workstyle that is supportive of human happiness ?
Webwanderer wrote: Of all the words in the human language it may be that 'should', and it's evil twin 'should not', are the lowest of the low. They are more debilitating to a joyful experience than a daily root canal. The unconscious judgment that accompanies such pronouncements separate us from whatever possibilities that may exist to find value in what is, regardless of appearances.

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:54 pm

unbornawakened wrote:I understand you are referring to self-judgment,
It is indeed inclusive of self-judgment, which is the worst of the worst, but it is likewise inclusive of the, not so unconscious judgments, that our specified shoulds place upon the world as we see it. If I say 'you should do better', I am making the judgment that you are not doing good enough. If however, I say 'you could do better', I am more likely pointing out possibilities for improvement based on how I see your potential. Now there may well be a context here that 'could' really means 'should' and is just a disguised judgment. But said with love and compassion, it can be a useful encouragement to someone in need.
To be seen as successful most often you must have a big ego, and be driven by fear, rewards, shoulds and should nots.
A couple of points come to mind here. Does one want to be 'seen' as successful, or does one want to experience success? What indeed defines success? Is it financial reward and position, or is it happiness and joy in life? And while your description of 'most' may be somewhat accurate, we in this awakening movement, are looking to be on the cutting edge of a more genuine way of being. So let us recognize the ego driven way to success for what it is and find a better path, one that is more in alignment with our true nature. We can do most of the same jobs, but rather than do them for appearance, let us do them for substance. Not so much for the financial gain but for the expansion of consciousness.

WW

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by unbornawakened » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:40 am

I should have known what was coming :D My bad, I did not explain myself accurately. What I really meant by 'seen to be successful' is on the job - it means being able to keep your job, and your boss being satisfied with your performance. Otherwise, personally I care much less about being seen as successful by the world at large. Just talking about the workplace.
Webwanderer wrote:[ Does one want to be 'seen' as successful, or does one want to experience success? What indeed defines success? Is it financial reward and position, or is it happiness and joy in life?

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by ZenDrumming » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:03 am

Midnight,

There are some great pointers in this thread. I'd just like to post a couple questions that come to mind that may be worth looking into.

Are the teachings that "did this to you" bringing you closer to truth? If so, do you wish to be ignorantly blissful instead of aware of Truth?

If the answer to the first question is "no", then can you unlearn the teachings? If they are simply exercises in futility that have been absorbed into your worldview, what's keeping you from discarding them?

I agree with xkatex that looking at ego death from the perspective of ego is a pretty bleak experience. The best advice I can give is to just let go of all of these ideas of numbness, emptiness, disconnectedness, etc. When you feel those things, try not to label it. You can't control your feelings, but you can choose to either fight or accept them, and labeling them seems to be the first step in turning them into concepts that stick. Trust in the fact that you aren't a mistake, and that it's always darkest before the dawn.

Also, and I'm surely not one to judge, but things like alcohol can certainly make it harder to stay out of those mind loops.

I hope you can feel that aliveness again. Best wishes.

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