Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

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the key master
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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by the key master » Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:15 am

Hiya midnight.

It sounds like youre dealing with a fear of the unknown. The fear of the unknown is the desire to repeat past experience. You mention that you feel numb. I assume you mean you feel detached, or that you (mind) feels disconnected from the body and experience. Experience is being repressed as opposed to transcended. Only you can watch yourself. Look for the unconscious mental tendency to repress certain energy movements. Look to see if mind "actually wants to be disconnected from the emotional body". When something triggers anxiety or unpleasant feelings, is there any form of mental tendency to turn away from that? If there is, that's where you can start, because that is the desire to be numb to yourself stemming from an unconscious fear of how "life out there" could make you feel "in here". The delusion is that these two are separate, which is what all this unconscious projection in this thread is about. This certainly isn't about helping you feel better(maybe that's what youre looking for which is part of the issue). Its more about suffering consciously so that you no longer have to suffer. We could talk about that in terms of experience, but I wouldn't want to bullshit you because it most certainly isn't that.

Igor15
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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by Igor15 » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:17 pm

Midnight wrote:Listen, I'm so numb it feels like nothings happening - ever.

Be careful of these teachings because what has happened to me I wouldn't wish upon anyone.

I'm so numb even the concept of numb doesn't cover it. There's nothing wrong with your ego or your sense of self. Learn to forgive yourself and accept who you are.



Following self-inquiry is not going to solve any of your problems, if anything (in my case) it just appears to numb them to the extent that your memory of them is totally wiped out and all impressions of past experience go aswell - sweet.............


It feels as if I'm dead - like life is on only a quarter of the volume it was on before, same with vision and experiences.
All memories seem vague and disconnected, like they never happened, even beautiful memories of my childhood appear so distant I can barely remember them - almost as if they happened to someone else.

Do you really want this to happen to you?
I think spirituality has psychological ramifications that many people won't admit to, but instead of speculation I thought I'd give a 100% real lif experience of what these teachings can do to you. I go all day without thinking of my loved ones or friends, not by choice but because it feels like my mind is totally empty.

fuck this
That's it. The real life. There is no way back because you can't cheat yourself anymore. You just need time to adapt to what is real.
But I don't see any reason why you can't play with your imagination. You just understand that you can't get anything real from it.

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Midnight
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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by Midnight » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:00 pm

Ofcourse the me is still 'there' - I just feel totally removed and disconnected from it.

Same with the body/mind (which is the 'me' anyway I guess). My body feels emotionless because as far as I can tell in my own experience - no mind = no emotion.

Very interesting replies so thanks alot.

TKM I was gonna say lets skype again but i get the same problem as last time on this laptop (shitty), so il ask on this thread:

I see energy movements being repressed quite often, I feel so emotionally closed off from others, a serious fear of intimacy has come about. It feels like an even stronger egoic defense mechanism. It must be related somehow to the minds fear of non-existence/ fear of death or something no?

Again, I do TRY to feel these things but it's so difficult to make memories of past pain actually feel painful, it just feels like they never happened..


Something has been upset in my mind, that's for sure. This can't have come about through any sort of intoxicant as I never had these problems before. I feel so vulnerable without the mind.

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by Midnight » Wed Nov 02, 2011 1:29 am

Also - what if i actualy just have a brain tumor or something and i'm experiencing the effects of that - e.g memory and emotion all messed up? It's possible right?

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by the key master » Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:31 am

TKM I was gonna say lets skype again but i get the same problem as last time on this laptop (shitty), so il ask on this thread:
Wheneva mate.
I see energy movements being repressed quite often, I feel so emotionally closed off from others, a serious fear of intimacy has come about. It feels like an even stronger egoic defense mechanism. It must be related somehow to the minds fear of non-existence/ fear of death or something no?
Ok, so a fear of intimacy has been noticed. We could even say that as you “are becoming conscious of the tendency to resist certain movements”; there in turn is “less resistance to these movements”. Less resistance to fear = more fear, not less. The more fear is noticed the easier it is to understand. With understanding comes resolution, and with resolution comes freedom from the belief that you need freedom from yourself. That's all freedom akchully is.

All you are actually doing is Being Conscious “of the mind which is pretending to be you”. Could that possibly be an experience? Your own experience has confirmed that your own experience isn’t Consciousness. That’s good to notice.

As it becomes evident that Being Conscious is not an experience, the movement becomes less about holding on and more about letting go. The fear of intimacy is a fear of feeling intimate. Take a look at the movement of desire here. Mind probably wants to be intimate and doesn’t want to be intimate at the same time. This isn’t a problem, but just something which appears to be happening in Consciousness. Consciousness is conscious of the movement of mind which isn’t you anyway.

It must be related somehow to the minds fear of non-existence/ fear of death or something no?
It sounds more like a fear of being a person who isn’t in control.
Again, I do TRY to feel these things but it's so difficult to make memories of past pain actually feel painful, it just feels like they never happened..
That’s a good indication of some resolution, which understanding facilitates. Nothing actually happened anways, which is kinda cool and frightening at the same time.

Trying to feel things and allowing the mind to express energy are two different movements. One is grounded in control while the other flows from surrender. If you feel some repressed energy percolating, snuggle up with it. Make friends with your fear and get intimate with the emotional body. Get intimate with yourself, with your emotions, with your desires and your fears. Cut through it with your understanding. Look for projection. Look for “self reflection” by imagining what others might be imagining. What are you telling yourself about yourself? Do you actually believe that? Why?

It’s not what you understand but what you don’t that moves you forward. There is no end to a game that never got started. Between points in time is where stories unfold and life goes on. If you feel like a separate self stuck in time, it is what you don’t understand that matters and most certainly not what you do.

As far as the brain tumor goes, you’re probably feeling disoriented a bit. We could say mind experiences disorientation as Consciousness becomes disillusioned. The mechanics of your mind have shifted, but the identification is still evident. There is nothing wrong with “thinking as if you are your mind”. This is healthy mind functioning. We could say if there is a strong preference to not be your mind, there are things mind can do to arrange that(not by thinking that it isn't mind), although this might actually lead to more disorientation rather than less. Maintaining a semblance of psychic stability can be preferable at times.

Go at your own pace. If you feel a little wacked out, that’s ok. Its noticed and allowed the space to resolve itself.

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by Igor15 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:35 am

Midnight wrote:Also - what if i actualy just have a brain tumor or something and i'm experiencing the effects of that - e.g memory and emotion all messed up? It's possible right?
It's unlikely. A person can't get a brain tumor by watching a "TV show". If you would there were body symptoms in the first place. Such as headaches, seizures, nausea and vomiting, drowsiness, vision problems(blurred or double vision or loss of peripheral vision) etc.
As for me you have "software" issue here. Not "hardware".
If our body is ill we go to the doctors. If we have problems with the mind where do we go?
If my car is broken I am looking for a repairman. But is there such thing as a broken mind?
Of course there can be a broken brain and a mind as a result of such a brain. But can there be a broken mind as it is?
If I took a picture and I didn't like it, was the picture broken? The camera was working well and the picture was good but I didn't like it.

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by Midnight » Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:43 pm

I just want to know why egoic defense systems are still in place, I still have fears of being percieved certain ways even though it feels like its not happening on a conscious level. Social awkwardness is there, probably worse than ever. I used to derive self-esteem from images of the past and general experiences, now without any thoughts of past or future seeming to mean anything I can't seem to feel confident.

And the 'I' that's saying all this is the 'me' I know... but I thought i'd seen through it.

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by heidi » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:18 pm

Walken said:
You guys crack me up. Everyone trying to give advice, but not one of you has experienced what he's going through. What this is is unimaginable. This is what happens when you realize that there isn't a me that is in control. The deconstruction of one's identity is not peaches and cream.
I'm willing to bet that many of the bodies who wrote on this thread have indeed felt that way, this one included.
You're right, it's not all peaces and cream, it's everything, peaches and cream too, and nothing, and when you awaken to the fact that "you" don't exist, "you" might feel empty and meaningless, or you just might get clear enough to see the absurdity of it all and enjoy the ride. :D
Heidi
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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by arel » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:19 pm

Midnight I don't want to be rude or insensitive to how you feel. But you have posted here a few times with the same thing. To me it seems you are suffering because of not having good habits. Being social is one of them. Maybe exercising and eating healthy are other things. So stop digging anywhere on a mental level by posting on here with these type of "spiritual" questions before you actually acquire healthy habits. Human desires do not go anywhere. Maybe people like Maharshi go beyond them, but then he wouldn't be posting on here..
What I say is only my viewpoint.

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by arel » Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:31 pm

And heidi above gave me another lead. If you subscribe to "you don't exist" and that's what your experience is, then my guess is that your ego now has no identity, you are confused, on the human level, which is a level of knowledge, you have no knowledge of who you are, only who you are not. I'd be confused too. You do exist, right here, right now, the aware knowing of everything that's known, including the knowing itself, get clear on that, just like your signature says...
What I say is only my viewpoint.

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by Igor15 » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:09 pm

Midnight wrote:I just want to know why egoic defense systems are still in place, I still have fears of being percieved certain ways even though it feels like its not happening on a conscious level. Social awkwardness is there, probably worse than ever. I used to derive self-esteem from images of the past and general experiences, now without any thoughts of past or future seeming to mean anything I can't seem to feel confident.

And the 'I' that's saying all this is the 'me' I know... but I thought i'd seen through it.
You can't do anything with it(social awkwardness and so on). But you think you can.
To feel confident or awkward is self delusion. I mean there are no such things as confidence or awkwardness. One just believes that she is confident etc.
Ego doesn't exist. We simply believe that we have egos. It is like someone thinks that he is Santa Сlaus. People will see him crazy. But believing in ego is respectable. Although there is no difference.
If someone called himself Santa Claus he would needed a white beard and a red suit. If someone thinks he has ego he needs to feel confident and he needs a lot of other imaginable things. He feels badly if he thinks he hasn't them. But all these things don't exist. Someone just behaves like they exist. It's foolishness.
Sometime it happens a person sees all this clearly and it stops. After that all this stuff has no meaning. Someone has lost something that he never had.

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by tod » Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:13 pm

Midnight wrote:I just want to know why egoic defense systems are still in place, I still have fears of being percieved certain ways even though it feels like its not happening on a conscious level. Social awkwardness is there, probably worse than ever. I used to derive self-esteem from images of the past and general experiences, now without any thoughts of past or future seeming to mean anything I can't seem to feel confident.

And the 'I' that's saying all this is the 'me' I know... but I thought i'd seen through it.
It sounds like you have seen through, transcended, the mind, but the mind is going on doing it's thing, trying to maintain a personal sense; IOW you are no longer really in the mind, you only imagine you are from time to time :)

Old conditioning (mind repeating itself) carries on but 'you' are not really in it (mind); it is a kind of personal absence operating.

I am finding the notion of a personal absence helpful at this stage; more helpful than the notion of a witness or observer. I find I need to assert my personal absence (in mind) when thoughts of personal involvement are initiated, as such thought only leads to emotion such as you mentioned.

I am 'feeling my way' with this, but thought it may be helpful to try to put in words 'where I am at' :)

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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by walken » Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:08 am

Midnight wrote:Again, I do TRY to feel these things but it's so difficult to make memories of past pain actually feel painful, it just feels like they never happened.
If you are at the same place I was earlier this year, and it sounds like you are, then you're not going to be able to feel past pain. Past thoughts don't have the same power over you. You have to deal with this shit in real life, not in some fantasy setting.

But it's clear from by your next comment here that this isn't something you really want to do. What's going on here is an aversion to feeling negative emotions. You have two options, stay stuck in no-self desert dryness land, or get out there and face whatever it is that you're avoiding.
Midnight wrote:I just want to know why egoic defense systems are still in place, I still have fears of being percieved certain ways even though it feels like its not happening on a conscious level. Social awkwardness is there, probably worse than ever. I used to derive self-esteem from images of the past and general experiences, now without any thoughts of past or future seeming to mean anything I can't seem to feel confident.

And the 'I' that's saying all this is the 'me' I know... but I thought i'd seen through it.
Even when something is seen through, it takes a while for the momentum of the conditioning to slow down. Knowing what you fear isn't enough, you have to open up to those fears. Embrace that awkwardness, stop trying to avoid, run from it, and pushing it away... you will most likely be stuck with it for a good while.

Anyways, best of luck to you

the key master
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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by the key master » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:42 am

Howdy,
Middy said,

I just want to know why egoic defense systems are still in place,
To be spiritually incorrect about it, because you are your mind and you have defense mechanisms in place because you want them to be there. This makes you the foremost expert on whatever it is you are looking at.
I still have fears of being percieved certain ways even though it feels like its not happening on a conscious level.
It sounds like the fears are unconscious projections of the emotional body manifesting as social anxiety. No one has any control over that but somebody seems to want control, which is noticed (its the mind identification thingy). Mind never gains control over mind, and yet this is all mind really wants (most commonly projected as wanting control over “life out there”). You never get to choose your thoughts or reactions. You don’t get to pick your emotions. You don’t choose your nightly dreams and you aren’t personally responsible for anything. Nobody is.

If you have a fear of being perceived a certain way in certain situations, consciously dive into it. When these situations arise, consciously and intentionally attempt to manifest the symptoms which are being unconsciously avoided. Who says you can’t enjoy anxiety? A little bit of fear keeps you on your toes man. Someone famous once said (im no historian) the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. That’s a completely delusional projectional mind split. The only thing any mind can actually fear is its own imagination. So, use your imagination to expose the imaginary boundaries of your own imagination.

the key master
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Re: Noone else just numb due to these teachings?

Post by the key master » Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:44 am

heidi said,
you just might get clear enough to see the absurdity of it all and enjoy the ride.
Stepping off the battlefield is always an option.

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