The (neo) advaita trap

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samadhi
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The (neo) advaita trap

Post by samadhi » Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:45 pm

This is so funny and perfectly sums up the 'neo advaita' types I've repeatedly run across on the internet. What do you think?

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7262997 ... he-cartoon

Incidentally, I am very much drawn to authentic advaita and have greatly benefited from reading the works of Nisargadatta, Ramana, some of the scriptures and from western interpreters such as James Swartz and Dennis Waite as well. I'm just very wary of the neo advaita crowd, who seem to have a fairly limited grasp of what advaita is actually about and can be real pains in the @$$ to boot :lol:

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dijmart
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by dijmart » Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:54 pm

samadhi wrote:This is so funny and perfectly sums up the 'neo advaita' types I've repeatedly run across on the internet. What do you think?

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7262997 ... he-cartoon

Incidentally, I am very much drawn to authentic advaita and have greatly benefited from reading the works of Nisargadatta, Ramana, some of the scriptures and from western interpreters such as James Swartz and Dennis Waite as well. I'm just very wary of the neo advaita crowd, who seem to have a fairly limited grasp of what advaita is actually about and can be real pains in the @$$ to boot :lol:
OMG that was hilarious! Yes, I find that some people on this very forum speak like that, if you post "I" this or that, then they post back "who is this I" regardless of what was said. You can barely relay anything without being attacked for letting your "false self" speak "false concepts"....hahaha :lol:

The video was great. It shows that when you take becoming enlightened too far you can not even communicate with others any longer and if you do they may not want to talk to you anymore. I've read some tit for tat long winded arguments on this forum that sound so ridiculous and are like ...huh, what? They start to not make ANY sense what so ever.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

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ashley72
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by ashley72 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:49 pm

Djmart,

When I first came to this forum back in Feb... I held exactly the same opinion... that both of you are presenting here. I also spoke out against the "machine gun of truth" which seem to be presented by Neo Advaita types. However, after much reading of broad range of non-duality texts...a deeper understanding formed of the human condition... opinions shifted & changed.

These questions are simply asked to get the individual to question & ponder where their beliefs about "self" stem from. Of course this type of questioning will seem very impersonal at times. But that view changes once you gain a deeper knowledge.

I've asked these questions myself... and I live a very normal life. I run a business, working every day with customers and lead a normal family life.

I would encourage you to keep an open mind before so quickly judging the approach. Tolle's approach is more progressive and not as direct. But ultimately they're pointing towards the same realizations.

samadhi
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by samadhi » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:55 pm

I did actually have a very open mind to begin with, Ashley - some might even say a slightly naive mind. It's just I've come to realise that the neo-advaita approach is a highly distorted westernised variation of authentic advaita. A large number of the neo-advaitins I've encountered are exactly like the obstinate, superior pain in the butt portrayed in the video. I'm sure you've encountered some of them, there have even been some of them here. You know the kind, you can't discuss anything with them without getting stuff like "but WHO is asking the question?" "Nothing exists, so what does it matter anyway?" Such pointers might indeed be helpful for those that are ready, but neo-advaita's lack of methodology and also its lack of understanding of the core of advaita (and it's total denial of the relative) renders it quite useless to all but the most 'ripe'.

I feel there are a great many people out there who genuinely believe they're enlightened simply because their mind has latched onto a certain set of perspectives and beliefs relating to nonduality. They maybe indeed have awakened a little, but if they have to spend all their time 'teaching' others how wrong they are and how 'enlightened' they are, then...meh. There's nothing stinks more than the spiritual ego. In fact, I sometimes find non-spiritual people much more genuine and better to be around than some 'spiritual' people. For me, they serve as a lesson as to how easy it is for the ego to hijack virtually anything. Truly, nothing is sacred to the ego and nothing requires greater vigilance than the 'spiritual path'.

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SandyJoy
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by SandyJoy » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:27 pm

Samadi, Thank you for this clear statement.

This whole awakening thing really is about Self discovery, not self annihilation.

Recognition of our actual wholeness, total expanse of who we are; it is holiness and it is very personal and intimate, it is between you and your heart and the Ineffable Source of All That Is You. Our Identity is Real and Its discovery makes the world more beautiful and alive; here the adventure just begins. As if we are born again, we become tender and honest and vulnerable and yet we feel full and whole and thankful and humbled.

When we discover what Life is, and we see the Truth of God’s Eternal Presence as the Living Light being All That Is, then our view of our world becomes quantum, total, all inclusive, endless. Everything is seen and understood in this New Light. When we realize that our Identity is Awareness and this awareness belongs to the Living Presence of God’s Being, then we see that Who I Am is always sitting right next to This Unknowable Infinite Power and Truth, The One Light of all that is... then we begin to realize that the entire world is unfolding within our Self.

Now we understand that the appearance of mankind “out there” is one's “objective” view in total—one's own “possibilities” carried on to near infinity.

We recognize that Life Itself is Something holy, something extraordinary. Certainly not something to fear and not something to be denied, but something to Love, to open our Heart to, to fully embrace, God's Infinitude is our very Self. We understand now that Life is not happenstance, and being Here is not luck nor is anything an accident.

Life is Something mysterious and Something holy and every moment is a holy moment.

I very much doubt that the final clarity can come through an intellectual approach, such as "neo-advaita". That to me seems a cruel and brutal approach that has lost its way.

The Love and Grace that brings us such an abiding peace and equanimity is something that inspires a gratitude beyond any words one could express. Deep in the Heart, It is here, deep in the Heart of each of us, we go within.

Now we understand that the Self-I-am is the most central and important part of this divine equation; I realize I am the beauty I see. I am the joy I see. I am the excitement and enthusiasm of everything I see—because, I can't recognize something unless I am it. I am That. What I see is My Self, One Seeing, One Being, It is me It is I. It is this holy Awareness of God I am.

We share with the rest of Self, it is the natural thing to do.

By Love and Grace it was for me, by faith, by Trust it came to me.

Now I realized that I am not just one among millions; Now I see the millions are within my self.

Knowing This Totality is my Identity, while still being this person here appearing as this SandyJoy person, is just such a Sweet Wonder. Nothing is taken away, and All is given. The only thing the Light of Truth eliminates is the temporary (but necessary for a time) false concept there is just me and my limited time-space-birth-form view of things. This discovery does not end a sense of Self, it expands my Identity wherein I come alive fully as unafraid to be my self.

Now there is this divine Awareness which God is being, Always present always Here, always Now and it includes all views within itself, infinite possibilities.

This Self Awareness is My Identity, and This view no longer thinks in terms of time as linear and sequential. The trap of time is gone, we are free from the past.

History can be changed from right here in this Now, and and the future can be changed now and time is less linear and not necessarily sequential. We see this Godhead being all can be all things at once, it is not limited to 'this or that' ...Now we discover time moves in both directions and also it does not exist at all. I am no longer a product of time, I become free from the past, the Wonder and Joy is we can be free from the lies that hold us from this Living Presence of real Self and we are free to being the Glory of Who we really are.

This New View releases us from the binds and restrictions of the false thinking, and brings us Home to the Life and Light of Truth we have always been.

It is important for others to see that our Liberation is not about getting rid of our Identity, that the only thing we lose is our limited view of our self....and Now we are about finding out we are so much more than we could have ever dreamed.

Much Love to all, Sandyjoy
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.

unbornawakened
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by unbornawakened » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:29 pm

Just the right words. Can't agree more !
samadhi wrote: I feel there are a great many people out there who genuinely believe they're enlightened simply because their mind has latched onto a certain set of perspectives and beliefs relating to nonduality. They maybe indeed have awakened a little, but if they have to spend all their time 'teaching' others how wrong they are and how 'enlightened' they are, then...meh. There's nothing stinks more than the spiritual ego. In fact, I sometimes find non-spiritual people much more genuine and better to be around than some 'spiritual' people. For me, they serve as a lesson as to how easy it is for the ego to hijack virtually anything. Truly, nothing is sacred to the ego and nothing requires greater vigilance than the 'spiritual path'.

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ashley72
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by ashley72 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:05 pm

Samadhi,

Yes, I agree with what your saying. Neo Advaita definitely can be taken to the extreme and become very annoying. I've been annoyed by the approach as well. But at the same time, I could separate and label a few other spiritual practices & approaches being peddled on this forum which are as equally annoying to me. But in saying that Neo Advaita is probably the most polarising approach to the majority of seekers. So point taken. :D

Stella 7
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by Stella 7 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:04 am

I suppose this should go on the "books you recommend page", however I have not actually read the book yet, but, I think the guy who wrote it has views which are pertinent to this topic.
The book is called "Liberation from the lie" by Eric Goss. You can read the introduction at
http://theliberationbook.wordpress.com.

He also has a web page at
http://liberationfromthelie.com

I only came across these pages the other day , when I typed into google " is non duality a load of ....."(was feeling a bit lost with it all)

He seems to have followed the "spiritual path" for many years (Krishnamurti for 30 years), and a lot of reviews for his book are from ordinary people who have been "seeking " for most of their lives.

I realise I am sounding like an advertisement for him, I just think, for me ,this book sounds interesting, and wanted to let others know about it,whatever helps I say.
Hope my links work! Can`t seem to get a grasp of how you do it properly, even after having read the technical guide page!!
On his blog he speaks of his years of seeking,its interesting to read of someone else`s "journey" I think.
Thanks : )

the key master
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by the key master » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:59 am

Cool post samadhi. You've created thoughts over here, allow me to express.
I feel there are a great many people out there who genuinely believe they're enlightened simply because their mind has latched onto a certain set of perspectives and beliefs relating to nonduality.
Right, they’re delusional. One useful spiritual practice you can try: Look in the mirror every morning, and say, how am I going to bullshit myself today? How am I going to lie to myself and remain blind to what’s actually going on in my own mind? Dunno why anyone would want to do this LOL.
but if they have to spend all their time 'teaching' others how wrong they are and how 'enlightened' they are, then...meh. There's nothing stinks more than the spiritual ego.
Yea most spiwitual teachers are complete ego maniacs from where I’m standing. Whether or not they are transcended ego maniacs, dunno, don’t care. Debating the presence or absence of delusion in someone else’s mind is total masturbation and it makes me want to spew every time i see it. Half of the posts on this goddam forum are nothing more than that, escapism and avoidance, slumber maintenance at all costs. A bunch of delusional minds projecting delusional mind states, which is actually rather fascinating. Everyone mirroring each other's bullshit, with 1 out of every 100 actually looking at themselves instead of at the other person(this tends to side step that transcendence thingy which peeps seem to think they want).

If that offended you, you can notice that and take a look at why, or, in contrast, just deny that it happened, which is probably what you’ve done anyway. PS---that’s the "core issue". Its a mind split, wanting to feel a certain way and then denying the opportunity. What this leads to is the unconscious creation at "some other point in time" for mind to express the already existing desire to feel a certain way. Mind identified mind control is the issue there.

Oh, on a side note,this isn't to say that if you take someone else's thoughts personally, or that if someone hurts your feelings, that you're implictly delusional. So if I offended you "for no good reason", I'm sorry.
In fact, I sometimes find non-spiritual people much more genuine and better to be around than some 'spiritual' people. For me, they serve as a lesson as to how easy it is for the ego to hijack virtually anything. Truly, nothing is sacred to the ego and nothing requires greater vigilance than the 'spiritual path'.
Yea I think so. I think most spiwitual people are completely full of shit. The way things like desire and shit get intellectualized is so wacked out that im glad someone else sees it. Realizing you aren’t a person isn’t going to help you get laid. On the other hand, I think “not being unconscious” is about the most attractive thing to notice in another human being, second perhaps only to “the eyes”.

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Midnight
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by Midnight » Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:13 pm

Ha TKM I love you, sick post

bf2
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by bf2 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:22 pm

the key master wrote:I think most spiwitual people are completely full of shit
Amen.

arel
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by arel » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:49 pm

Key Master wrote:Debating the presence or absence of delusion in someone else’s mind is total masturbation and it makes me want to spew every time i see it.
Key Master wrote:Half of the posts on this goddam forum are nothing more than that, escapism and avoidance, slumber maintenance at all costs. A bunch of delusional minds projecting delusional mind states, which is actually rather fascinating.
"Wow" is what I thought when I read this your post Key Master. How you can say these two sentences one after another I do not know? How the fuck would you know others are delusional? Isn't that by noticing something from your perspective conditioning and pointing that out? So why not say it like it is? Don't say it is my view, or anybody else, it's yours only.

Yes I can relate to the feelings you are describing towards some posts on here, makes me cringe, but so what. I know it is a uniquely personal reaction that happens here, and I state it that way. And I'm doing it now, writing this reaction to your post.

Yes my theory is people on here mostly do not fit the regular mold. Not "fitting in" creates suffering. Or suffering makes one not fit in, or I don't know what it is, but I sense it is about suffering. "Fitting in" does help with suffering, but means nothing. Spiritual people seek out others to "fit in" as well. To me it sounds like you try to put a "cool" spin on your posts, but it makes them no more true to me, or less of bull shit.

Regarding neo-advaita. I don't know what is advaita or neo-advaita, only by connecting the dots from the video and what I read here. It's probably meant to be New Advaita, I don't even care to look it up. It's probably a No! Advaita, rejecting things. Rejecting something without offering something to be seen. Like "you don't exist", "ego doesn't exist", things like that. Ineffective teachings in my view.
What I say is only my viewpoint.

nightowl
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by nightowl » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:15 pm

the key master wrote: Half of the posts on this goddam forum are nothing more than that, escapism and avoidance, slumber maintenance at all costs. A bunch of delusional minds projecting delusional mind states, which is actually rather fascinating. Everyone mirroring each other's bullshit, with 1 out of every 100 actually looking at themselves instead of at the other person(this tends to side step that transcendence thingy which peeps seem to think they want).
Well heck, we all gotta start somewhere.

Reading this forum is a good measuring stick. Some posts resonate, some don't. Some used to cause my stomach to ball up in knots. Now I just roll my eyes, laugh and move on. :)

randomguy
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by randomguy » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:45 pm

Hang the delusional! They are clearly what is wrong with reality!

(kidding of course - I couldn't resist give something for nightowl to roll the eyes at) :)
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

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SandyJoy
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Re: The (neo) advaita trap

Post by SandyJoy » Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:47 pm

I can understand why so many are angry at things that sound spiritual. But, you are barking at your own veils of definitions, not at the Truth.

The Truth is that we live as God's Self Awareness and no matter how far we think we go from that Truth, That Truth remains right here and right now the Living Fact. We cannot avoid or leave It. We can do a very good job of covering our eyes to it, but those covered eyes are not going to make The Living Fact go away. 8)

"My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them forevermore;
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, to there! for,
behold, the kingdom of God is within you."

Much Love, Sandy Joy
You are not finished, until you play in that meadow and live there. You can, you know. But only you can take yourself there.

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