Sam Harris on Free Will

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Sam Harris on Free Will

Postby Mariposa » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:26 pm

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Re: Sam Harris on Free Will

Postby rideforever » Tue Mar 05, 2013 9:42 pm

On his podium it says : "Festival of Dangerous Ideas".

Very interesting. An Idea or Concept is a fragment within the mind, and this is indeed where Harris lives.

To not notice that the sign on your podium indicates that you are lost in your mind ... is unconsciousness.

He is a very aggressive man.

Or ... he has become so lost in his mind that he has allowed it's aggression to take control of his other functions.

Yes, a "Festival of Dangerous Ideas".

The USA seems to be the centre of this radical shift into unconscious ignorant aggression, and it this that is referred to as : "The Fall of Man".

When you begin to take pleasure in your own violence, in your own hatred, in your own small mindedness ... it is selling your soul.

Extinction looms for man.
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Re: Sam Harris on Free Will

Postby Mariposa » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:34 pm

What? :idea: I'm so taken aback by your reaction... I've seen him on different conferences talking about meditation, and consciousness... I don't think he is living in complete unconsciousness... I think by seeing the dellusional quality of free will, he is slowly seeing the delussional quality of self... he is only seeing one piece in the puzzle, but he is right on track... I know he is still in the realm of mind and mind talk but... I recommend watching his video on death...

http://youtu.be/ITTxTCz4Ums

You may see what I see...
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Re: Sam Harris on Free Will

Postby rideforever » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:29 am

I am sorry I don't have the time to watch more than about 10 minutes of it, but I would make the following observations :

This is the name of the conference : "A Celebration of Reason - Global Atheist Convention".

As I understand the aim of "Atheism" is to not cling to belief. But clearly this is a belief. People are very angry about Christianity etc... so they want to move away from it - that is very understandable. But the opposite of one belief ... is not another belief.

The opposite of belief is to live freely without any preconception. You cannot describe who or what you are, because there is no preconception. You just live in the moment, moment to moment.

If you say you are an "Atheist", you have a preconception. You are saying what you are.

There is no such thing as "Atheism", there is just confusion in the mind.


Free Will. His position is that there is no Free Will.

Big deal. I would say a more important question is how do we create Free Will. Gurdjieff for instance has a very comprehensive teaching in order to create the capacity for Free Will in humans.


"We are the only people who admit death is real" (let's assume he means death is final).

Well, we don't know. It's just that simple. For somebody to say they know what happens after death is a sign of that arrogance has overtaken intelligence.


"We don't believe in an Iron Age War God".

I assume by this he means that he doesn't share stupid beliefs like those "idiot religious people". Well here are some names of stupid religious people :

Einstein, Nietsche, Michaelangelo, Leonard da Vinci, Socrates, Aristotle

... perhaps you have heard of them. Yes all these morons were religious.



He is not a man that can take you anywhere because he enjoys his ignorance too much. This is becoming very common as man slides towards his own extinction. For instance in the UK today it was proudly announced that the Tories (Republicans) will abandon the Human Rights Laws made in Europe. Next week they are bringing back slavery over a champagne cocktail.

As Anglo-American culture is spreading through the world the only contact people have with da Vinci is probably when they are drunk on a Friday night and urinate on only his sculptures. Yes this is the direction of the world currently. Down.

It's amazing to me that people like Harris encourage violence against religion, they enjoy it, attacking people. In the USA senators talk openly about terminating other people, even their own people.

It's over basically. Mankind is finished. This kind of enjoyment of your own base desires multiplied by the kinds of weapons and technology that exist now equals extinction. I see no other possibility.

I agree with Harris that Christopher Hitchens was a good man. Because he took great risks to understand. Hitchens ... he didn't really understand much, but he had courage. He understood that.
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Re: Sam Harris on Free Will

Postby Mariposa » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:25 am

If you go straight to minute 26 in the video, that's when he talks about consciousness and such...

I am not really an atheist, and I do appreciate his "attacks" on religion actually... don't see it as violence though, it's just what is required, I actually see him as a vert gentle speaker and he throws some reality checks that religion pretty much needs... anyhoot, have a nice weekend!
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Re: Sam Harris on Free Will

Postby rideforever » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:19 pm

It's a brave thing to introduce mindfulness to a group of atheists. Which is great.

Aside from that everything else he says, his reasoning and understanding, is very poor in my opinion.

But I suppose that's how it is ... you tell people whatever they want to hear and then they come close and then ... you get them to meditate.

There are lot of people like him around at the moment, Richard Dawkins, for instance ... who do have an urgency to find the truth ... and reject the wisdom of spiritual teachings because they are angry about Christianity ... and so are quite limited in their penetration of the truth.

They are not able to be objective or free to investigate, because they cling to the title of Atheist which is often just veiled anger at Christianity. The part of his philosophy where he says it's ok to attack religions, is just this very anger ... and some excuse making for it.

This is the way people are. They are emotional, but they are uncomfortable saying "I am really angry" ... so they make reasons in their head to make them feel good "I am angry BECAUSE he made me".

The entire Atheist sub-culture is incredibly emotional : "We are Atheists !!" "Down with religion !!" ... their understanding of themselves is that they are somehow RATIONAL ... but the slightest look at them tells you how the whole thing is emotionally-fuelled.

I wish it was better than this.

It seems to me that people who wake up are few, because most people think they are totally awake. And such gatherings of people inevitably end up in emotional social dynamics where everyone is unconscious.

Buddha left the palace, he left the ascetics, he left his teachers, he left the group he formed, and sat under a tree by himself. Time and again he left every group he was in, because only when you are by yourself can you do it.
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Re: Sam Harris on Free Will

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:26 pm

I once watched either this video or something like it and emailed to ask Mr Harris about a contradictory notion that irked at me. He was talking about getting braces on his child's teeth, not for medical reasoning, but for cosmetic reasoning if he - they - society thought her looks would be improved by them, so she could have a 'better quality' of life (based on the perception in their cultural arena)
- what is that if not culterised believing?
He didn't answer (funny that :wink:) but it points to the hypocrisy of condemning others for their culterised believing while not recognising the effects of ones own cultural beliefs and agreements.

The 'best' explanation of free will I've ever heard came from Neale Donald Walsch - it merely means

'I would not presume to choose for you'.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
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Re: Sam Harris on Free Will

Postby far_eastofwest » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:21 am

I did reply on this topic sometime ago, but the post was removed (no idea why.... perhaps the girl in the closet link to dr phil... i am sure she doesn't believe for a moment her carers had no free will in what they did to her, and how they used discerment to just choose one child to torture, and how they carefully hid her predicament, showed quite a lot of free will to me).

So I will just do a very basic one on Sam.
He uses persuasive argurment tactics. With these you can basically sell airconditioning to people in Antartica. He sells what people want to hear... your life a mess? kids out of control? beat up your wife regularly? Have extramarital sex and give your husband a nasty std? its okayyyyyyyy.... you can't help it... you have no free will. Every loser on the planet will be lapping this stuff up.
His ability to set up a conference.... clearly shows he knows WELL IN ADVANCE what is going to come out of his mouth! Not that stuff is just going to pop up there with no control over what he will say.

Genetics? Didn't hitler have something similar.... the master race or some such? Just fix it at gene level!
There is nothing harder to find than a black cat in a dark room
Especially when there is no cat....
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Re: Sam Harris on Free Will

Postby Mariposa » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:15 am

The entire Atheist sub-culture is incredibly emotional : "We are Atheists !!" "Down with religion !!" ... their understanding of themselves is that they are somehow RATIONAL ... but the slightest look at them tells you how the whole thing is emotionally-fuelled.


Yep! The more we want to set ourselves apart from others, the more we are all the exact same! Just trying to find an identity through thought.

Ego is just everywhere, so everybody watch out! :lol:
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