Free Will (yet again)

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Re: Free Will (yet again)

Postby rachMiel » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:36 pm

Phil2 wrote:
rachMiel wrote:Personally, I can only accept reincarnation in the metaphorical sense that we all leave our marks on the world, all affect the totality as it flows along.

Ramana Maharshi used to say that there is no reincarnation ... because there is no 'incarnation' ... just an erroneous identity with the physical body ... you are the Self ...

As for Eckhart Tolle, from what I remember, he said that each thought you make reincarnates you ... so you re-incarnate thousands of times every day ... but of course this incarnation is illusory because what you are is formless awareness ...

Both of these takes make sense to me. Thanks for sharing, M. Jean de Belgique!
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Re: Free Will (yet again)

Postby runstrails » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:35 pm

Yes, I agree. Re-incarnation does not make sense with the knowledge that all is the self. But when the focus is at the level of the soul, then re-incarnation comes into play.
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Re: Free Will (yet again)

Postby karmarider » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:10 am

The question of free will is a tough one. My guess is most people who consider the question go back and forth on it.

I have some axiomatic beliefs around it--that is, beliefs which I think are true but I cannot prove them nor am I completely certain of them.

1. In the unexamined mind, there is no free will. There is mechanical conditioning.
2, When there is a clearer mind--that is, a mind which is not unconsciously identified with thoughts and beliefs, and is not driven by fear, and does not react mechanically according to conditioned patterns--there may or may not be free will.
3. The purpose of life is to experience love. As an experience. The soul journeys from fear to love, and calls on itself the experiences it needs to experience love as an experience. Free will must be a part of this equation. We must be able to choose love over fear. And so we must have free will to choose.
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Re: Free Will (yet again)

Postby Boni » Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:40 pm

"Find out who is subject to free will or predestination and abide in that state.
Then both are transcended.
That is the only purpose in discussing these questions.
To whom do such questions present themselves?
Discover that and be at peace".


Quote and transcript from Ramana Maharshi > Youtube - Ramana Maharshi - Free Will
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)
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Re: Free Will (yet again)

Postby Enlightened2B » Fri Jun 27, 2014 12:22 am

Boni wrote:"Find out who is subject to free will or predestination and abide in that state.
Then both are transcended.
That is the only purpose in discussing these questions.
To whom do such questions present themselves?
Discover that and be at peace".


Quote and transcript from Ramana Maharshi > Youtube - Ramana Maharshi - Free Will



I would say that Physicality is a gameboard of exploration for us. Love is our nature at its core. There is only love. It is only thought that claims otherwise and clouds this love by the grand belief of 'separation'. So, with free will, the game is all about making choices within the context of physicality to better explore possibilities through physical existence that further serve the greater whole, almost within the context of karma yoga as I see it. Meaning, any choice we make should not be second guessed ultimately, because it already is 'what is'. Whether we are ignorant of our true nature or not, still serves the whole. The advantage of awakening in my opinion, is merely to navigate through life, stress free and making decisions out of love as opposed to out of fear.

In essence, free will does not exist at our core (Source) since everything is merely happening within the context of Awareness/Source and there is nothing that is actually separate, so there is nothing or no one to actually make decisions, but, without falling into the 'neo-advaita trap', within the context of the game, free will does exist relatively/physically speaking on the game board. What I'm gradually learning is that life is not just about 'awakening' to the illusion of separation. Rather, I see it as actually living the game of physicality which I'm still learning to do after the awakening, which means enacting our free will relatively speaking and exploring avenues of life, even through our fears which have held me back previously which I'm still in the process of working through. No, we are not separate people enacting free will. There is no person making any choices. Rather, we are source/awareness exploring through physicality and that aspect of choice is based on a number of factors including conditioning, past experiences, knowledge of the universe,etc, but that choice still exists as an inherent quality of our nature because of our brains. Without our brains, there are not choices. To say there is no free will because everything is already one and whole, in my opinion, is missing the point of actual life. I could very well be wrong of course, but I think that too is a choice, whether we choose to explore life, or not explore it.

It's not a matter of choosing between love and fear as love is what we are at our core as I see it. Love is already 'what is'. It's merely seeing through the fear/beliefs we have developed that covers up the love lies that lies present through it all and once we find that, I think choices are still made within the game, yet, they are now made from a place of conscious/presence/unconditional love, as opposed to unconscious decisions based on the idea of separation. I think it's all about finding that love that we are at our core and then living life from there.
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Re: Free Will (yet again)

Postby Boni » Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:37 pm

@Enlightened2B: Very nice post!

Enlightened2B wrote:Whether we are ignorant of our true nature or not, still serves the whole.

Indeed, i do totally agree, it's all part of the cosmic web. Nobody is to blame or judged if he is ignorant or not of his true nature.
He / she can only act out of the awareness he has in that moment. Who would be blaming who anyway?

"Even the psychologist, should be aware not to be a tomato studying tomatoes. That is absolutely necessary. The psychologist can be anything else. The state of the awakened person is a state beyond mind. He can see from the top of the hill into the dark valleys of the mind. The hilltop is full of sunlight. His vision is clear, he has no prejudices, he has no preconceived ideologies. He has left them far behind in the valley where everybody is a bigot, everybody is conditioned, everybody is either a Christian, or a Hindu, or a Mohammedan, or a Buddhist, or a communist.
"Everybody has become identified with a certain ideology. He has lost the clarity of vision, he is clouded. And he looks through those clouds, and everything becomes perverted
".
quote: From Bondage to Freedom
- If everything is God’s Will, then there is a ‘total acceptance of what is’.
- Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof.
- Words reduce reality to something the human mind can grasp, which isn’t very much. (E.T.)
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Re: Free Will (yet again)

Postby Turmeric » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:25 pm

I came across this : Esoteric Quotes. It seems very interesting!

From that :

“All know that the drop merges into the ocean, but few know that the ocean merges into the drop.”

It's in essence about the few seeing the delusion of the so-called "free will".
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