Converting (light) energy to matter

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Re: Converting (light) energy to matter

Postby ashley72 » Mon May 26, 2014 10:47 pm

Phil2 wrote:
Ashley,

When you see an oasis in the desert, you run for water, but when you know that this oasis is just an illusion, a mirage, then you don't run for water any more ... you know there is no water to be found there ...

So the seeing of the illusion ends the illusion ...

So the title of this movie could be called "The Power of Illusion" ...

8)

... and the "Power of illusion" can be destroyed by the "Power of Now" ...

:-)



Image

Phil,

Are you aware that being in the "Now" whilst walking thru a desert and seeing a mirage for the uninitiated is going to get you killed?

What saves a person lost in the desert from the illusion of a mirage is certainly not the "thoughtless" NOW.

What prevents you from chasing after a mirage is scientific knowledge about the changing density of air near the hot surface of the desert sands and knowledge about the refractive index of light.

Understanding optical illusions about physical reality has absolutely nothing to do with being in the present moment... you've been brain washed to believe that knowledge just mysteriously bubbles up from Unmanifested (present moment)... it doesn't!

Knowledge about mirages comes from knowledge about the refractive properties of light, and the medium through which light travels.

The knowledge is acquired from scientific know how.... Science is about predicting outcomes based on scientific models which fit the experimental (physical) data.

Visual Illusions arise because of changing physical conditions that mimic something else. A rope can pass off as a snake in dim light because the changing physical conditions have caused the rope to mimic a snake in dim light. Not because the Unmanifested (POWER OF THE NOW) reveals to you the knowledge it's an illusion.

I just needed to set the record straight, this was just another lame attempt by someone trying to pass of gibberish as esoteric knowledge!

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Re: Converting (light) energy to matter

Postby Phil2 » Tue May 27, 2014 7:18 am

ashley72 wrote:
Phil2 wrote:
Ashley,

When you see an oasis in the desert, you run for water, but when you know that this oasis is just an illusion, a mirage, then you don't run for water any more ... you know there is no water to be found there ...

So the seeing of the illusion ends the illusion ...

So the title of this movie could be called "The Power of Illusion" ...

8)

... and the "Power of illusion" can be destroyed by the "Power of Now" ...

:-)

What prevents you from chasing after a mirage is scientific knowledge about the changing density of air near the hot surface of the desert sands and knowledge about the refractive index of light.




Ashley,

The mirage we speak of here is EGO... what is the scientific knowledge that ego is an illusion ?

:?:
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Converting (light) energy to matter

Postby ashley72 » Tue May 27, 2014 10:36 am

Phil2 wrote:
The mirage we speak of here is EGO... what is the scientific knowledge that ego is an illusion ?

:?:


Visual illusions & Self perception (Ego) both have a neural basis.

For the Ego see the neural basis of self => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_basis_of_self

The neural basis of self is the idea of using modern concepts of neuroscience to describe and understand the biological processes that underlie human's perception of self-understanding. ~Wikipedia


The human Ego is a product of a very complex nervous system. If you consider that humans have up to 100 billion neurons in the average brain with trillions of individual connections. The scientific basis around the illusionary nature of the
Ego is not something that can be outlined here in a few paragraphs. But a good start is Douglas Hofstadter's book "I Am A Strange Loop".
Last edited by ashley72 on Tue May 27, 2014 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Converting (light) energy to matter

Postby Phil2 » Tue May 27, 2014 11:01 am

ashley72 wrote:
Phil2 wrote:
The mirage we speak of here is EGO... what is the scientific knowledge that ego is an illusion ?

:?:


Visual illusions & Self perception (Ego) both have a neural basis.

For the Ego see the neural basis of self => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_basis_of_self

The neural basis of self is the idea of using modern concepts of neuroscience to describe and understand the biological processes that underlie human's perception of self-understanding. ~Wikipedia


The human Ego is a product of a very complex nervous system. If you consider that humans have up to 100 billion neurons in the average brain with trillions of individual connections. The scientific knowledge based around the Ego is not something that can be outlined here in a few paragraphs. But a good start is Douglas Hofstadter's book "I Am A Strange Loop".


Seems you are making a confusion between ego and awareness ... ego is an erroneous identification (thought) of formless consciousness with a form (body/mind) ... how could you find awareness (formless) in neurons (forms) ?

??
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Re: Converting (light) energy to matter

Postby ashley72 » Tue May 27, 2014 11:33 am

Phil2 wrote:Seems you are making a confusion between ego and awareness ... ego is an erroneous identification (thought) of formless consciousness with a form (body/mind) ... how could you find awareness (formless) in neurons (forms) ?


Human Perception (being aware of objects) is not formless, photons which have a physical basis, are electromagnetic force carrying wave packets which interact with photo sensitive neurons in the human eye. These electromagnetic waves in the visual spectrum of light are the carry of colour and in-formation.

Human vision is extremely complex, way too complex for a forum like this... but this illustration of the brain will give you a rough idea of different functions and their brain location.

Image

There is a two stream hypothesis for attention (or awareness). The Ventral & Dorsal stream. => http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-streams_hypothesis

Dorsal stream is associated with the ego-centric or viewer-centered viewpoint. Whilst the Ventral stream is associated with the Allo-centric or object-centered viewpoint.

Dorsal Stream - Spatial Awareness

The dorsal stream is involved in spatial awareness and guidance of actions (e.g., reaching). In this it has two distinct functional characteristics—it contains a detailed map of the visual field, and is also good at detecting and analyzing movements.

The dorsal stream commences with purely visual functions in the occipital lobe before gradually transferring to spatial awareness at its termination in the parietal lobe.

The posterior parietal cortex is essential for "the perception and interpretation of spatial relationships, accurate body image, and the learning of tasks involving coordination of the body in space". ~ Wikipedia
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Re: Converting (light) energy to matter

Postby Phil2 » Tue May 27, 2014 11:52 am

ashley72 wrote:
Phil2 wrote:Seems you are making a confusion between ego and awareness ... ego is an erroneous identification (thought) of formless consciousness with a form (body/mind) ... how could you find awareness (formless) in neurons (forms) ?


Human Perception (being aware of objects) is not formless, photons which have a physical basis, are electromagnetic force carrying wave packets which interact with photo sensitive neurons in the human eye. These electromagnetic waves in the visual spectrum of light are the carry of colour and in-formation.

Human vision is extremely complex, way too complex for a forum like this... but this illustration of the brain will give you a rough idea of different functions and their brain location.



What you are describing here is the 'form-ation' of images from external objects to inner brain mechanisms ... but you do not describe WHAT sees those images ... where is awareness located ?

You cannot find awareness in any place ... because awareness is not in space ... awareness IS the space in which all forms happen ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Converting (light) energy to matter

Postby ashley72 » Tue May 27, 2014 12:16 pm

Phil2 wrote:
What you are describing here is the 'form-ation' of images from external objects to inner brain mechanisms ... but you do not describe WHAT sees those images ... where is awareness located ?

You cannot find awareness in any place ... because awareness is not in space ... awareness IS the space in which all forms happen ...


Are you aware of the physical basis of positive & negative feedback loops? An example of a negative feedback loop is a flushing toilet or a thermostatically controlled furnace...whereby devices oscillate around a centre point. An example of a positive feedback loop is the loud squealing or howling sound produced by audio feedback in public address systems: the microphone picks up sound from its own loudspeakers, amplifies it, and sends it through the speakers again.

Well Self-perception is a type of feedback loop, but a loop that doesn't have a clear highest level.... It's a kind of level-crossing.... Douglas Hofstadter calls it a strange loop... and it appears in Kurt Gödel's incompleteness theorem relating to number systems.... sufficiently complex systems which have no clear highest or lowest level.

If your struggling by what i mean by strange loop, it might be helpful to think about the game... Rock, Paper, Scissors... This is example of a loop that has no clear highest level.

Image

In a strange loop each part of the hierarchy is linked to another but there is no highest or lowest level. Unlike a deck of cards, where there are clearly high value and low value cards, when you play “Rock, Paper, Scissors” there is no single element that sits at the top of the stack. Think of Escher’s illustration of a hand emerging out of the paper to draw a hand, emerging out of the paper to draw a hand. Bach’s “Canon a 2, per tonos” is another. Bach used an audio illusion, now called a “Shephard’s scale,” that convinces our ears that the tones of the music are climbing ever upward in pitch and yet never actually get any higher. A strange loop is a sort of feedback loop that shifts paradoxically across levels. Douglas H


Image

Spatial awareness appears to be on a different level than objects/images but in fact it's not...it's an illusion of the strange loop! 100 billion neurons with trillions of connections is a sufficiently complex system for a strange loop to emerge.
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Re: Converting (light) energy to matter

Postby Sighclone » Mon Jun 02, 2014 4:37 am

Relating back to the op, but expanding it, this blogpost below suggests the recent discovery of gravitational waves confirmed at the first instant of the Big Bang implies the immanence of consciousness in the bigger picture, suggesting that Consciousness may precede matter:

http://happinessbeyondthought.blogspot. ... -what.html

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Converting (light) energy to matter

Postby Phil2 » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:07 am

Sighclone wrote:Relating back to the op, but expanding it, this blogpost below suggests the recent discovery of gravitational waves confirmed at the first instant of the Big Bang implies the immanence of consciousness in the bigger picture,
suggesting that Consciousness may precede matter
:

http://happinessbeyondthought.blogspot. ... -what.html

Andy


Thanks Andy for this very interesting link, which refers to another interview of Andrei Linde (Professor of Physics at Stanford University.) which you can find here:

http://www.closertotruth.com/interviews/2613

(didn't know this web site which I really recommend to all - contains wonderful interviews of top scientists):

http://www.closertotruth.com/

Here is what they say about themselves:

Closer To Truth gives you access to the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover the fundamental issues of existence. Enjoy new ways of thinking. Appreciate diverse views. Witness intense debates. Express your own opinions. Seek your own answers. Get smarter.

I cannot resist to quote here some excerpts of this interview of Andrei Linde:

As the wave function of the whole universe does not depend on time, it only starts depending on the time on my watch if I subtract myself and observe the rest. In a certain sense, the rest of the universe is alive only if I am alive. My observation is my consciousness. Without my recording it, all the rest of the universe will be dead. It presumes that consciousness may have some independent importance.




Physicists of the Copenhagen interpretation school say that everything becomes real at the moment that it is observed. You put the wave function of the universe into a certain state after you observe it, but everything looks as if it existed all the time before it happened. That is the theory of consistent histories. When you observe the galaxy in the sky, everything looks as if was there even before you start observing.




I particularly liked what Andrei Linde says at the end of this interview, he says that he did include his theories in a book that he published in 1990, and the editor did not like this and she asked him to remove that from the book because "he would lose the respect from all of his friends" (his colleagues and scientific community) ... and Andrei Linde answered: If I remove that from the book, I will lose my own self respect, which is more important for me ... so it is still in the book" ...

Sometimes courage is needed to express our opinions ...

:)
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Re: Converting (light) energy to matter

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:09 pm

I too would like to say thank you to Andy for posting that link above. Fascinating!
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Re: Converting (light) energy to matter

Postby Clouded » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:34 pm

I hope that the first article proves that teleportation can become a possibility one day if you can switch from matter to light to matter again.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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