Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby dijmart » Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:49 am

It seems I'm not the only one to "notice" this about Phil after all. I just had to take a time-out from posting and he started..well.. doing what he does ...to others here also.

and Phil, I know this is my ego and I know you'd like me to be quiet and that what irritates me... how does it go?? well, whatever :lol:

Also, you can save whatever quote you're going to post cuz I just don't really care.... I don't think anyone else does either.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Clouded » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:46 am

I noticed that I like participating in this forums' drama, especially the ones concerning Phil (they're probably the only drama-causing posts here LOL!) To be honest, I didn't even watch the video or read the most of the intelligent posts on this thread, I just skimmed through and saw that there was Phil drama and decided to pitch in my two farts so I could cause more drama because watching drama unfold is entertaining to me, I feel like I participated in every bit of drama here. Btw, sorry dijmart of accusing you of not letting go of your grudge towards Phil, I'm no better because I keep coming back to drama. I'm attracted to this like a moth is to a flame.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby karmarider » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:07 am

Enlightened2B wrote: The study of the physical universe is not the problem. The problem is the belief in physicality alone like another form of religion which is where the modern atheist movement seems to be heading. Anything that can't be proven physically is said not to exist, not understanding that physicality and what you are as Being are one and the same. Therefore, mainstream science is not being true to itself by intentionally limiting itself to only part of the picture via belief.


Yes, true science is limited by its own assumptions. Still, I have hope for science. I think it can meet up with spirituality. I see the progression in western science over the centuries, In the last few years especially, there is more acceptance of possibilities which seem to defy the conventional physical-only view of reality.

Sam Harris is a neuro scientist and believe it or not is NOT on board with the Universal Consciousness idea. He is an avid meditator, but somehow on this very forum, Sam Harris has become an icon for science in the direction of Universal Consciousness, but he actually argues vehemently against the notion.


I didn't know--thanks for pointing it out. It's my lesson--I really should read Harris' book before I talk about it.

The double slit experiment to me has been misinterpreted by some as I've come to see. Some have taken it to mean that a human observer is all that is needed to bring physical reality into existence which is simply not the case. As a result, people have convinced themselves that reality fails to exist when a human observer is not looking at it which is just silly and dangerously delusional if you ask me as it borders on solipsism. Instead, it's the interaction of particles with each other which can also be an act of observation. Meaning, particles themselves are observers in their own right and not just a human consciousness. Meaning, the greater thing I've taken out of the experiment is that consciousness exists at every level of Being including particles. It's just a different degree of Awareness for a particle than that of a human.


I agree--the double-slit experiment (good title for a porn movie) and related experiments about the regressive time and so on, don't prove the absence of an objective universe. They do indicate that there are cracks in the assumption that reality is entirely physical.

Awakening to me is no longer the realization of a non-dual Awareness. Well, that's part of it. But, awakening is having the willingness to go beyond the scope of the limited conditioned perspective to understand that all of the answers have been there always if we are merely willing to look and embrace that which is considered ludicrous by some. That perspective widens more and more as awakening happens over time. It's not a static event as I see it.


Agree. It's the progressive move towards clarity. It's quite humbling.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby karmarider » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:14 am

Clouded wrote:Btw, sorry dijmart of accusing you of not letting go of your grudge towards Phil, I'm no better because I keep coming back to drama. I'm attracted to this like a moth is to a flame.


That's quite honest.

This energy, the attraction to drama, fighting fire with fire, seems to be persistent. It can take me over before I realize it. It shows up in me when I'm dealing with people who are attached to fixed mental positions. I want to shake them and make them see, sometimes by ridiculing them. Which is of course exactly the same energy in me--fighting fire with fire. It's a lesson I seem to need to learn over and over again...
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Phil2 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:40 am

Webwanderer wrote:My guess is Phil will make most any post about someone else's ego including this one. To bad. Phil is a smart guy and often insightful. Unfortunately his obsession with making others the problem obscures the real value he could offer. No doubt he will retort something about my ego or point out some envisioned error to deflect from the real issue he could address and make some valuable progress. Waiting....

WW


Hello WW and all,

I don't think I make an "obsession" about this, but I said that ego is what interests us fundamentally ... the opinions and points of view we have are less important than the reasons why we defend those opinions and the emotional reactions (anger, irritation, fear etc), which is ego at work ...

I even started a thread to explain this, so no hidden agenda here for me ... I hope this clarifies my so-called "obsession" about ego :)

Emotional Intelligence ?

What we discuss here is not that much important finally ... it is all intellectual stuff ... what is important is the way we experience it ... our emotions that those discussions trigger inside ... as long as we are ready to fight or struggle to defend opinions or beliefs, to 'make points', to be right and make others wrong, then it is a sure sign of emotional (and spiritual) immaturity ... and we have seen some examples here ... and elsewhere too ...


... and this is not at all in contradiction with Eckhart Tolle's teachings btw ...

Edit: I would even add to this that speaking of ego can never be 'off-topic' in a discussion ... because ego precisely is the one and only root cause of ALL 'topics' and thoughts ...

In fact any discussion topic could start with an implicit statement like "As I see things etc etc ..." or "As I understand etc" or "I find this interesting and I give some information or link etc" ... ego is always implied in anything we say or think ...
Last edited by Phil2 on Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Phil2 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:47 am

karmarider wrote:
Clouded wrote:Btw, sorry dijmart of accusing you of not letting go of your grudge towards Phil, I'm no better because I keep coming back to drama. I'm attracted to this like a moth is to a flame.


That's quite honest.

This energy, the attraction to drama, fighting fire with fire, seems to be persistent. It can take me over before I realize it. It shows up in me when I'm dealing with people who are attached to fixed mental positions. I want to shake them and make them see, sometimes by ridiculing them. Which is of course exactly the same energy in me--fighting fire with fire. It's a lesson I seem to need to learn over and over again...


Well said KR ... ego comes back whenever we want to be right and make others wrong ... when we defend our fixed mental positions ...

However the seeing (or observation) of ego at work is NOT the same as defending our opinions (which is ego vs ego) ... because the seeing precisely is the only action (or 'non-action' in fact) that can dissolve ego ... like the seeing of a mirage dispels the illusion ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby karmarider » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:06 am

Phil2 wrote:However the seeing (or observation) of ego at work is NOT the same as defending our opinions (which is ego vs ego) ... because the seeing precisely is the only action (or 'non-action' in fact) that can dissolve ego ... like the seeing of a mirage dispels the illusion ...


True. And perhaps what people are trying to point out is whether it's more important to see this energy in oneself than it is to point it out in others.

The Buddhists say that whatever offends you in others is always something you fear in yourself. I've found this to be true 100% of the time. So perhaps the desire to indicate the ego in others comes from the same energy in oneself, yet-not-fully-observed. This is something I have to work on myself continually. The solution, in my view, is to always turn observation inward. I look for it in myself. Others will work it for themselves.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Phil2 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:27 am

karmarider wrote:
The Buddhists say that whatever offends you in others is always something you fear in yourself.


iow. "What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves" (Carl Jung)

:)

karmarider wrote:I've found this to be true 100% of the time. So perhaps the desire to indicate the ego in others comes from the same energy in oneself, yet-not-fully-observed. This is something I have to work on myself continually. The solution, in my view, is to always turn observation inward. I look for it in myself. Others will work it for themselves.


Right, this is what could be called "the mirror of relationships" ... reflecting to others their own emotions ...

And once again the mere observation of ego at work (in ourselves and in others) is NOT in itself an emotional reaction ... just a factual (nearly 'scientific') observation ... just 'what is' ... and there is no problem to say things as they are ... just facts ...

But of course ego does not like to be 'unmasked' ... hence the irritation and emotional reactions one can observe here and there ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Phil2 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:34 am

dijmart wrote:
Also, you can save whatever quote you're going to post cuz I just don't really care.... I don't think anyone else does either.


Your reaction here just contradicts what you just said ... if you really didn't care you wouldn't have posted this ... neither would gossip about me in other forums ... (First Agreement broken here)

:lol:
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:22 pm

Phil wrote:Edit: I would even add to this that speaking of ego can never be 'off-topic' in a discussion ... because ego precisely is the one and only root cause of ALL 'topics' and thoughts ...

No doubt you see things this way, but it yet avoids the issue. It's not that ego can, and often does, play a role; it's your constant pointing to what you deem as other's ego while ignoring your own very active egoic input. You might find a study in humility to be quite helpful. Seriously.

One wonders why you are here in this forum, and are you succeeding in your interests? Do you wish to learn and develop, or do you wish to help those seeking insight in their own growth and understanding? Your posts indicate much more of the latter. But you have to see that your 'contributions' create more conditions of animosity through your constant criticism than they do helpful insight and expansion. Look at the feedback you get.

Consider, we've all had a lifetime of others telling us how wrong we are. In a forum that in large part is based on what's right about us and reclaiming what our essential nature is, that doesn't set very well.

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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Phil2 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:48 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
One wonders why you are here in this forum, and are you succeeding in your interests? Do you wish to learn and develop, or do you wish to help those seeking insight in their own growth and understanding? Your posts indicate much more of the latter. But you have to see that your 'contributions' create more conditions of animosity through your constant criticism than they do helpful insight and expansion. Look at the feedback you get.


Well WW, I don't think that the feedback I get is a sure sign of being wrong ... why is it so ? Because the fact is that ego does not like to be unmasked and criticized, therefore egos will always react when they are challenged by the evidence of their own lies and reactions ...

This is the sense of the Tao's statement:

"Pleasant words are not true and true words are not pleasant"

Truth can be the most challenging factor for ego ...

There is an old saying "Give a horse to the man who tells the truth" (so he can fly away quickly)

In the same vein you might also consider those words from Jesus:

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
"
(Matthew 10:34)

"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!" (Luke 12:49)
Last edited by Phil2 on Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Phil2 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:00 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Consider, we've all had a lifetime of others telling us how wrong we are. In a forum that in large part is based on what's right about us and reclaiming what our essential nature is, that doesn't set very well.


I think there is a huge difference between what society told us about "how wrong" we were ... and what happens here ...

Society asked us to build our ego: to acquire beliefs, knowledge, identities, roles, possessions, social status and conventions, rules, desires and fears, opinions etc ... while here it is about unknitting/unraveling the whole ego structure we have constructed during all those years ... we have to come back HOME ... to our real self ... and leave the 'mind-made sense of self' (ie. ego) as Eckhart put it ... and this is not at all 'conventional' as society would define it ... but rather quite the opposite ...

And the way to do that is to observe our self attentively ... which is the only way to finally KNOW ourselves ... this is why I consider that ego's observation is so important ... while I would agree it might be unpleasant and discomfortable to face our (un)realities most of the times ... no one said life was a long quiet river WW ...

:)
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:36 pm

Phil, you never disappoint.

This is special.
Phil2 wrote:In the same vein you might also consider those words from Jesus:

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Jesus among us. Who knew?

It's interesting that you use such a quote to justify your behavior.

If you ever get around to exploring humility, consider also hubris.

By the way, I don't think you know what this quote means. It's not about Jesus attacking people as you so often do, it's about inspiring change from within that has the power to restructure misconceptions within ourselves.

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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby dijmart » Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:35 pm

Phil2 wrote:
dijmart wrote:
Also, you can save whatever quote you're going to post cuz I just don't really care.... I don't think anyone else does either.


Your reaction here just contradicts what you just said ... if you really didn't care you wouldn't have posted this ... neither would gossip about me in other forums ... (First Agreement broken here)

:lol:


Meaning...your quotes no longer interest me. They are repetetive, I've read each at least 50 times and this has become dull and boring. So, I said ya might as well save it.

Also, funny you'd mention the other forum, seeing that you were asked by the forum moderator there to no longer post on their general discussion forum any longer. You can't behave no matter what forum you frequent. Isn't this so Jean?

Here's what the mod Dev said to you-

Please refrain from posting in the General Discussion Forum except for on the odd occasion when you can avoid confrontation.


:lol:
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Phil2 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:49 pm

Webwanderer wrote:Phil, you never disappoint.

This is special.
Phil2 wrote:In the same vein you might also consider those words from Jesus:

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Jesus among us. Who knew?



Since when does quoting someone mean that I am this person who made the original statement ?

??

I did also quote many others: Eckhart Tolle, Krishnamurti, Einstein, Blaise Pascal, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Buddha, Lao Tsu, Socrates, Ramana Maharshi, Arnaud Desjardins, Arthur Janov, Jon Kabat-Zinn, Michael Brown, René Descartes, Byron Katie and many others etc ...

Am I all those persons ? ... in a sense yes, we are humanity after all ...

As J. Krishnamurti often said "We are the world"

:)
Last edited by Phil2 on Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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