You have a strong trust in scientific "truths." My trust is more limited.ashley72 wrote:So what EB2 & I are saying is you can remove the sense perception process (mapping or target layer) and the primary layer (physical tree A.K.A quantum bits) would still exist. The primary layer doesn't need to co-exist with sense perception.
Evolution basically says rudimentary sense perception (mapping from primary to target layer) probably didn't arise on planet earth until a 2500 million years ago when photosynthesis occurred. The trees arrived before mammal perception at 250 million years.
I trust that science gets things (more or less) right when it comes to conventional reality: the world of form, appearances, matter/energy, physics.
But when it comes to the big questions about the ultimate nature of being ... I don't trust any thought-based system.
What if, for example, our understanding of time/history/evolution turns out to be as fundamentally flawed as our understanding of physics was 300 years ago?
So, yeah, I'm inclined to agree: Stuff existed before the advent of mind. But I recognize that this is ultimately speculation, a reasonably educated guess. It's not ... The Truth.
“Penetrating so many secrets, we cease to believe in the unknowable. But there it sits nevertheless, calmly licking its chops.” ― H.L. Mencken