The Ego Is My Friend

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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Fri May 08, 2015 1:26 am

Enlightened2B wrote: No, I actually totally understood what you said and I just don't agree with it because you're creating duality. You're calling the ego perspective 'misery' and claiming that there is something else that is 'not misery', but yet, 'peace and harmony'. That's duality. Instead of seeing the inherent value in that ego perspective, you choose to see it as misery, which is your own perception.


Again, re-read what I wrote, you've missed the point and you are misquoting me.

Also, I'm not a dualist, or non-dualist, I'm a truthist.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Fri May 08, 2015 4:33 am

Fore wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote: No, I actually totally understood what you said and I just don't agree with it because you're creating duality. You're calling the ego perspective 'misery' and claiming that there is something else that is 'not misery', but yet, 'peace and harmony'. That's duality. Instead of seeing the inherent value in that ego perspective, you choose to see it as misery, which is your own perception.


Again, re-read what I wrote, you've missed the point and you are misquoting me.

Also, I'm not a dualist, or non-dualist, I'm a truthist.


No, I'm not misquoting you at all. You called the ego 'misery'. That's not a misquote. While, I don't fully disagree with your assessment of awakening from the ego perspective, I don't agree with your asssessment of the ego as 'misery'.

I'm not calling you a dualist (whatever that means). I'm saying that by calling the ego 'misery', you're creating a form of duality, between what you are (peace/harmony), as opposed to something you are not (ego/misery/ugly) and this is very common in non-duality, instead of embracing the ego perspective as a necessary evolutionary tool and seeing its greater value. That 'misery' that you perceive is just your perception of the ego perspective. Sorry, but that's not misquoting someone Fore.

Then again, if I'm not understanding your point as you claim, then why not just clarify what you are trying to say instead of indicating that there 'is no point in engaging further'? Mis-communication happens. That's why re-iterating points with further clarification can help a healthy discussion along.

Just a thought 8)
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby DavidB » Fri May 08, 2015 11:21 am

Ego doesn't really exist, it is a manifestation of duality. Ego is a place holder, a reference, a label that refers to a self referential awareness of consciousness. Awareness of awareness potentially creates a feedback loop that enables the speedy and effective evolution of consciousness, it does also however and consequently create an illusory sense of self that can become the focus of awareness and then adversely create a kind of blind spot to evolution.

Ego is my friend, indeed, of course it is, it was created by consciousness. However, as I already stated, ego can become a type of blind spot, potentially taking human consciousness ( as it has so far) into a deluded sense of self, a perpetual merry go round of self referential, ego-centrism.

The awareness of awareness is in itself a jump so to speak, evolutionary, which has consequently created a sense of duality. The human mission is to overcome this self delusion.

Seeing everything as simply things happening, rather than things happening to me or things happening around me, is the next step in evolution.
Last edited by DavidB on Fri May 08, 2015 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby DavidB » Fri May 08, 2015 11:26 am

Further, feedback is totally and fundamentally pertinent to evolution. Consciousness does not evolve without feedback, or at least, not very quickly. It is the feedback that gives humans the sense of an individual self. What humans tend to ignore however is the relationship between feedback and feed forward.

Feedback and feedforward are 2 fundamental and vital attributes to manifest life itself, and without which evolution is lifeless.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Fri May 08, 2015 12:07 pm

Enlightened2B wrote: and claiming that there is something else that is 'not misery', but yet, 'peace and harmony'. That's duality. Instead of seeing the inherent value in that ego perspective, you choose to see it as misery, which is your own perception.


You are claiming that I am suggesting there is "something" else this peace and harmony. This is a mis-quote, this is not what i've said. Peace, harmony, and happiness are not things, this is the true nature and is beyond the apparent mind and body.

Observing the impermanent nature of perception, sensation, and reaction as mere vibrations coming into existence and passing one is indirectly observing contact(consciousness). One is seeing this apparent self from a gross perspective to subtler and subtler realities, the gaps in this egoic curtain of ignorance become more apparent.

This ego is misery, there is nothing permanent to satisfy, even the most pleasant sensation experienced is not eternal it arises and eventually passes away, a wise person sees this as misery(danger). Clinging to this pleasantness is dangerous it keeps one from going beyond the curtain of egoic ignorance. This pleasantness is unsatisfactory this is misery. The self is misery.

We have been down this road before E2B, if you do not accept this as your truth that's fine, but this is the truth of this universal experience.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Fri May 08, 2015 12:27 pm

DavidB wrote:Ego is my friend, indeed, of course it is, it was created by consciousness.


Yes, ego should be looked at as a friend, this is where the practice of insight lies, developing in compassion to all suffering beings. But this is not the case, the habit pattern of mind is to cling to that we find pleasant and push away that we find unpleasant. In essence creating more self more misery. This is why everything is misery, everything(energetic entity) in existence requires to be seen with compassion, to be allowed the freedom, the space, to rise up and come out of misery(liberation). We are to let go of this past selves and stop generating new selves.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Fri May 08, 2015 4:30 pm

Fore wrote:
This ego is misery, there is nothing permanent to satisfy, even the most pleasant sensation experienced is not eternal it arises and eventually passes away, a wise person sees this as misery(danger). Clinging to this pleasantness is dangerous it keeps one from going beyond the curtain of egoic ignorance. This pleasantness is unsatisfactory this is misery. The self is misery.


Based on the part in bold, and based on the fact that you claim to know how universal experience works, can you tell me what it's like to be beyond ego? Have you connected with your higher selves? Have you discovered your reason for incarnating here on earth? Have you encountered other entities in other frequencies/dimensions? Have you encountered your true nature as a multi-dimensional Being of energy? Most of all, what have you learned personally about the role of the ego in our human experience and why it's here?

I'd love to hear your own answers from your own personal experience.
Last edited by Enlightened2B on Fri May 08, 2015 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Fri May 08, 2015 5:41 pm

DavidB wrote:Seeing everything as simply things happening, rather than things happening to me or things happening around me, is the next step in evolution.


Ego, to me, is merely the belief in separation. It's a limited perspective of self, but an intentionally limited aspect of Self. Self is a vantage point for All That Is to explore itself across multiple dimensions simultaneously through every molecule and through every dimension. To even question whether Self still exists beyond this tiny blip on the radar known as physical exploration, simply means we can't grasp the larger picture from our limited human perspective. Ego is an act of love. The intentional blindness enables us to achieve what we needed to achieve by incarnating here in the first place and while can be perceived by some as 'misery', depending on your own perceptoin, can be greatly appreciated when we can see the greater picture of why we incarnate here in the first place once we go back to the higher frequencies.

Meaning, sure it's fun to speculate, but the limited human view simply can't grasp the greater meaning to our incarnation, largely because we can't understand it's value and yet only until we ourselves have connected with our higher selves through OBE's by exploring other dimensions and frequencies/channeling through meditation/past life/live between live regression/NDE's, etc, can we truly learn to understand the bigger picture of the 'veil'. Experience is everything.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Fri May 08, 2015 7:59 pm

Some insight that came through. No universal truths here. Just my own perspective. The ego is not an actual entity in and of itself. It's merely the intentional act of forgetting who we are as interdimensional beings of light due to the denser physical frequencies of this dimension. Therefore, what we call ego is merely, us, as Beings of energy.....losing a good portion of contact with our higher selves that are still (and always) in the higher frequencies.

From the limited human mind who believes itself only to be a human, an experience can be perceived as incredibly miserable, just like the ego can be perceived as incredibly real. All of us that are operating in human bodies still very much experience this on some level. Yet, from the greater perspective (meaning, once we connect non-physically to our spirit guides, higher selves, soul groups, by leaving the body), we can see the greater meaning of any experience and realize that there is no misery in ANYTHING, nor was there ever. All is/was always peace and harmony. That, which we call 'misery' is/was an intended aspect in order for us to learn and evolve in this physical dimension in order to gain access to learn who we truly are through whatever means necessary. All experience has value and virtue and that includes every single aspect of the ego. It's the ego itself which is the entire purpose for our physical incarnation. It's the ego that we come here to experience in the first place. It's the ego which serves as our greatest learning tool. Yet, operating strictly out of the ego prevents us from seeing this. It only appears to be miserable for that intentionally limited perspective that simply can't grasp the greater meaning while still experiencing in a human vehicle. When one might come to see that they planned pre-birth certain aspects of their life and they planned to come into this life to experience a certain theme, perhaps, the entire meaning of that word 'misery' can be completely changed and true realization is that there never is, nor was there any misery, but the greater appreciation for those challenging experiences/ego, can be further felt and experienced. The ego if viewed from the perspective of appreciation, can be a tool of love.

That's why having a life between regression therapy session or learning to go out of body and channeling and learning to heal those energetic blockages by embracing fear, can serve us oh so incredibly much for the rest of our human experience to gain a greater understanding of any and every experience. To gain a greater understanding of why perhaps we might have incarnated here in the first place.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Fri May 08, 2015 10:34 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
Based on the part in bold, and based on the fact that you claim to know how universal experience works, can you tell me what it's like to be beyond ego?

Nope, as this is beyond the senses it cannot be expressed or understood in a conventional sense. And I claim to know how this("my universal experience") works. You figure out your own universe of experience.

Enlightened2B wrote:
Have you connected with your higher selves?

Sure, higher vibrational fields are experienced from time to time.

Enlightened2B wrote:
Have you discovered your reason for incarnating here on earth?


Yes, to liberate all beings within this universe from suffering.

Enlightened2B wrote:
Have you encountered other entities in other frequencies/dimensions?

Yes, and there have been some deep vivid experiences, but nothing to cling to or crave after, or give much importance to, I simply try to give my attention to whatever presents itself now.
Enlightened2B wrote:
Have you encountered your true nature as a multi-dimensional Being of energy?

I would not call this the absolute true nature, but apparently I am the sum total of volitional actions(energetic entities).
Enlightened2B wrote:
Most of all, what have you learned personally about the role of the ego in our human experience and why it's here?

It's here because of ignorance.

Enlightened2B wrote:
I'd love to hear your own answers from your own personal experience.

I always speak from experience, but some details are not important to share, but I do try to share the insights gained.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Sat May 09, 2015 1:42 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:Some insight that came through. No universal truths here. Just my own perspective. The ego is not an actual entity in and of itself. It's merely the intentional act of forgetting who we are as interdimensional beings of light due to the denser physical frequencies of this dimension.

You're getting confused here, The ego is the intentional actions created by forgetting(no awareness) the true nature. You are the sum total of this, these interdimensional beings of light were created the same way, just with lighter more wholesome intentional actions, they are also ego, they are also impermanent, they are ultimately misery. Do not cling to this as true self or you will get stuck at this station.

Enlightened2B wrote:Therefore, what we call ego is merely, us, as Beings of energy.....losing a good portion of contact with our higher selves that are still (and always) in the higher frequencies.

Yes, the ego is the sum total of these energetic entities, from the depths of hell to the highest brahmic plane, but none of these being are stuck in any plane of existence forever, beings can be liberated from the depths of hell, and beings can fall from grace. This is why a wise person sees all states as impermanent and ultimately unsatisfactory(misery).

No form(frequency) is permanent, there is no safety clinging to any plane, no matter how high.

Enlightened2B wrote:From the limited human mind who believes itself only to be a human, an experience can be perceived as incredibly miserable, just like the ego can be perceived as incredibly real. All of us that are operating in human bodies still very much experience this on some level.

To be born as human one must have created very wholesome volitional actions, this is why humans have this delicate balance of pleasure and pain, we can experience all the fields of existence and come out of them.

Enlightened2B wrote:Yet, from the greater perspective (meaning, once we connect non-physically to our spirit guides, higher selves, soul groups, by leaving the body), we can see the greater meaning of any experience and realize that there is no misery in ANYTHING, nor was there ever. All is/was always peace and harmony.

No, you have not left the body if you are still in contact with spirit guides, higher selves, soul groups, etc... you are experiencing something, some vibration or another, this is still within the framework of the body, you are experiencing the six sense doors fully. In these states the arising and passing will be very fast, the vibrations will be very subtle, very pleasant, you have to pay close attention but a vibration is still experienced in these high states. Staying with this vibration and seeing its unsatisfactory impermanent nature one will not cling to these higher states and one can pass through this stage.


Enlightened2B wrote:That's why having a life between regression therapy session or learning to go out of body and channeling and learning to heal those energetic blockages by embracing fear, can serve us oh so incredibly much for the rest of our human experience to gain a greater understanding of any and every experience. To gain a greater understanding of why perhaps we might have incarnated here in the first place.


Your playing games with these higher states by trying to induce them in hopes that they will heal you. This is unwise, as this healing is superficial, it does not eliminate our craving for these states. This will simply create moments of bliss which will last for some time but eventually pass away, you will end up chasing after this bliss, very dangerous, like a drug addict(bliss bunny).
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Sat May 09, 2015 4:22 pm

Fore wrote:You're getting confused here, The ego is the intentional actions created by forgetting(no awareness) the true nature. You are the sum total of this, these interdimensional beings of light were created the same way, just with lighter more wholesome intentional actions, they are also ego, they are also impermanent, they are ultimately misery. Do not cling to this as true self or you will get stuck at this station.


Fore, you're preaching dogma here and to me it sounds like, it's based off of something you've never truly experienced outside of perhaps a teaching. You're telling someone they are confused as if you know that there is a right definition of the word ego, which the other perspective doesn't match up to :lol: . Here's a news flash. There is no true definition of ego. Do a search on this forum and see how many different definitions have been used on this very forum over the years. The definition has different meanings to different people. It sounds to me like you're just regurgitating the definition of ego based on eastern teachings that you've resonated with, instead of realizing that your own view is just your own view and it's neither more right nor wrong than my own view and my experience. Your perspective is your perspective. Perhaps your definition of ego differs from mine. Does that give you the power to claim that another perspective is 'confused' on a certain definition? Sure, to you, it might seem like I'm confused because my definition of ego doesn't match yours.

This is why a wise person sees all states as impermanent and ultimately unsatisfactory(misery).


Guess what? I don't see anything as misery. I see it as beauty and wonderful opportunities to learn about my own soul perspective. Individuality is where it's all at as this where we gain true healing. Well, I guess I'm not a wise person according to you. Oh well. 8)

No, you have not left the body if you are still in contact with spirit guides, higher selves, soul groups, etc... you are experiencing something, some vibration or another, this is still within the framework of the body, you are experiencing the six sense doors fully. In these states the arising and passing will be very fast, the vibrations will be very subtle, very pleasant, you have to pay close attention but a vibration is still experienced in these high states. Staying with this vibration and seeing its unsatisfactory impermanent nature one will not cling to these higher states and one can pass through this stage.


You should look into a study of OBE/NDE's to better educate yourself on this subject matter because it just doesn't sound like you have any idea what I'm talking about here. Once again you're responding based on some sort of spiritual dogma that you've resonated with. Basically, anything is unsatisfactory if it is considered 'impermament' which completely misses the value of our own individuality. Unsatisfactory to you perhaps. Not to me though. This is neo advaita bullshit at its best.

Your playing games with these higher states by trying to induce them in hopes that they will heal you. This is unwise, as this healing is superficial, it does not eliminate our craving for these statesT. This will simply create moments of bliss which will last for some time but eventually pass away, you will end up chasing after this bliss, very dangerous, like a drug addict(bliss bunny).


You sound quite limited in your understanding or even attempted understanding of anything I am talking about here in my post above and I don't think this conversation is worth going any further because I'm talking about apples and you're talking about pandas. Do you even know what energy healing is? I'm talking about energy healing and you respond with the part in bold above which goes to show you and I are talking on two completely different wavelengths here. You're stuck in your own dogma and preaching it as though it's utter truth instead of realizing that it's only true for you.

Have a good day Fore
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Sat May 09, 2015 5:45 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
Guess what? I don't see anything as misery.

Is anything satisfactory, have you found anything that brings you everlasting permanent satisfaction? Please tell me of this unicorn, because even science has proven that all matter is in a constant state of change, nothing remains the same, nothing can satisfy eternally. This is not dogma but a truth that every human being can experience for themselves. I'm not talking of any belief structure so please do not continue to label me as a dualist, a non-dualist, a neo-advaiten, an eastern practitioner, as I mentioned previously I discuss the truth as I and you and anyone can experience for themselves, no belief involved what so ever. If you cannot respect this then our conversation is over, I am not interested in your emotional responses, I am interested in discussing personal experience which is what I'm doing and all I ever really discuss.

Sound fair?



Enlightened2B wrote: You should look into a study of OBE/NDE's to better educate yourself on this subject matter because it just doesn't sound like you have any idea what I'm talking about here.

OBE/NDE's are not something to chase after, they involve looking for something in particular, trying to induce some state or another, instead of simply being with this moment as it is, as it presents itself, and seeing through the veil of ignorance. If through simple observation an experience of this presents itself, there is nothing special about this, the practice remains the same, to see that oh yes this experience to will pass away no need to crave for it to last.

Enlightened2B wrote: Do you even know what energy healing is?

Energy healing is when energetic entities have been liberated from greed hatred and ignorance.



Enlightened2B wrote: I'm talking about energy healing and you respond with the part in bold above which goes to show you and I are talking on two completely different wavelengths here.

You seem to be talking about using this energy to heal. Do not become dependent on the higher subtle vibrations, this is playing games, and is a dangerous practice that will lead to much suffering in the future. I do not advise you to follow this practice, especially if you plan to heal others. Just give others the space to come out of their own misery, do not try to manipulate the process.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Sat May 09, 2015 7:32 pm

This is a very interesting back and forth.

"Staying with this vibration and seeing its unsatisfactory impermanent nature one will not cling to these higher states and one can pass through this stage."

Fore, you talk a lot about the misery of anything you perceive as impermanent - whether that be human experiences or experiences in higher states.

As someone who is directly exploring the higher states of my being and interacting with my higher selves, I ask myself, what is the motivation to attain a state of permanence? E2B asked you to describe this state as you experience it, and I would also ask this. You say "it cannot be expressed or understood in a conventional sense". I assume you realise this kind of expression could be given by someone who has read about these states in a book and is simply regurgitating them here. Or perhaps, you believe you have reached some state of permanence but it is actually something else? How can you be sure? The phrase that comes to mind here is: if someone can't describe something simply, they don't understand it well. If your purpose here is to assist others in what you call 'liberation', how can anyone be expected to trust you if you cannot even describe the state that the individual is intended to reach?

I've encountered many people along my little journey here who have said things like you are saying here. Making grand claims based on their own individual experiences. Claiming universal truths and making sweeping statements about the experiences of others. I wonder, is there any difference between their claims and your own? Are they simply perceiving what they choose to perceive - just like everyone else? In a reality that demonstrates fractal expression of Self how and why would anything be non-self? How can a non-awareness exist? If it is not aware, how can it be?

I'm trying to understand more fully how you perceive yourself. Are you saying you don't perceive? That you are non-self? And that this state of not being is some ideal state? Why is this state considered higher than any other state? What is so special about the state you describe? Why is it liberation? Why is something else non-liberation? What EXACTLY is liberation?

I'd be very interested to hear the answers to your questions. Preferably with a high degree of specificity and personal experience to support them.

E.g. you say you have experienced interactions with higher beings. I have as well. So I can relate to the importance of not attaching to these experiences. They are like sign posts - guiding to deeper reaches. Though I relate in some ways to what you say, I am wary of people who speak like you do. I have met people in the past who seem totally fixated on notions of ego and attaining some state or other that they have created for themselves within their perception. These people often speak like you do - with grand claims of universal truth. Why should I trust any of these beings? Why should I engage more with what they say than with what I feel within my own heart? I wonder - are they frauds? How can I discern for myself with greater clarity? I ask of their experience. So - what are your experiences in the higher realms. What have you experienced there specifically? How has what you have learned there related back to your experiences here? If you have attained the highest state of being then I would assume you would be at liberty to discuss such things to satisfy the confusions of a growing being who is curious to go deeper within their being and explore reality and their place within it.

I am so curious! What could this human being offer to me that my own higher self cannot? What answers will it give to these questions? Will it just give the same disappointing non-sense that I've heard so many times before? Will it provide a spark of insight that sets me on a new leg of my journey?! Who knows! Either way, can I lose??? Oh my friend - how can I lose?!
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Sat May 09, 2015 8:51 pm

Hey Fore,

In response to your post, I don't see a purpose in furthering the discussion here because we clearly have vastly different views on things. I really don't understand where you're coming from in your posts. I mean...your comment on energy healing makes no sense to me at all and ultimately has nothing to do with what energy healing actually is from my experience of having it performed on me and my experience in studying it. It sounds like you're commenting on something you're reading out of a text. Energy healing in my own experience, is working through energetic blockages that occur on multiple levels of our being (considering that each of us has multiple selves across multiple frequencies and dimensions) that quite possibly gets carried over from lifetime to lifetime and also blockages that develop in this lifetime alone. Blockages that manifest physically within the body as well. Consider that one of the many reasons we incarnate here is for healing, healing of old emotional blockages. Healing occurs on a greater level in the physical frequencies because of the gain on this level. That's what my experience of energy healing is. But, what I'm starting to learn is that you don't necessarily need another person to heal you. Energy healing can seemingly occur on an even greater level when we have access to our past lives and understanding who we truly are as energetic beings and why we incarnated in this life in the first place and a true connection to our higher selves and our soul group.

In regards to your comment about out of body experiences....who's implying that they are something to chase after? So, in other words, I can't find any interests in life because anything I find an interest in is impermanent? Welcome to nihilism if that's how you choose to perceive reality.

Did you consider possibly the enlightening experiences that people have had from exploring out of their body or channeling or going through a life between life regression session? That these people are experiencing something far deeper than you and I can possibly experience by formal meditation? Why does it always have to be that people are 'chasing a form of impermanence' as if to say that physical reality is literally shit and that the only goal is to reach some impermanent state of oneness. I'd suggest that the true focus and meat of our existence as individual, but not separate aspects of the whole, is right here, in experience itself. Not to mention, who's to say that there is an actual impermanent Oneness? Have you considered that what we call Oneness or impermanence is merely us connecting to our higher selves? And the higher self is merely an even smaller fractal of a greater Source which is a smaller fractal of something even greater and on and on? Meaning, invididuality is an expression in fractal form of an even greater and greater and greater reality with possibly no end ultimately meaning that individuality is an intended manifestation with complete free will, of an on going greater and greater fractal.

I'm studying out of body techniques right now and am scheduled for a life between life regression session with Robert Schwartz in 4 months from now because I have a lot of shit in my life anxiety wise still that comes up. I've come a long way in my own life from where I was three years ago. But, I'm starting to see that the fears that are being mirrored back to me in my daily experience, all stem from old emotional wounds that have not been healed and likely stemming from previous lifetimes. So, I feel true healing can occur if I can access my higher selves through non-physical exploration. However, I've also been listening to a bunch of Eckhart Tolle videos lately because his advice is so practical and is applicable to every one of us that I cherish his teachings still. Yet, Eckhart's teachings are not in opposition to non physical exploration. If anything, they all teach us to go within. It's merely a matter of our own beliefs when we do go within. Surrendering and embracing 'what is' is the focal point of most all discussion on this forum and is the first aspect of awakening that most of us resonate with and is the gateway to freedom, no doubt, while resistance is suppression and quite the opposite. But, I'd suggest that who we truly are in the greater frequencies is far far far more complex than what we possibly can understand by a formal meditation practice. So, why not explore it first hand deeper?
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