The Ego Is My Friend

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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Sun May 10, 2015 1:22 am

EnterZenFromThere wrote:As someone who is directly exploring the higher states of my being and interacting with my higher selves, I ask myself, what is the motivation to attain a state of permanence?

I am not talking of attaining a state of permanence. I am talking about liberating the ego from darkness to brightness. Any time we cling to a state we get stuck there eventually this clinging craving(greed), will turn to aversion(hatred), and we move in the darkness. A wise person sees that any state that presents itself is not self it is continuously changing, with this wisdom one does not cling to this state, and one moves from darkness to brightness. When a level of purity has been reached through mental purification, one is fit to transcend the field of mind and matter. No sights, no smell, no sound, no taste, no tactile sensations, no thoughts. Now can you imagine this, no you cannot because there is no thought, no imagination, just awareness(this all knowing ever present awareness). There is nothing for this awareness to be aware of, but awareness itself. This cannot be known, but as thoughts, tactile sensations, colours, smells, and tastes return, one can simply be this awareness.


EnterZenFromThere wrote: perhaps, you believe you have reached some state of permanence but it is actually something else? How can you be sure?

This awareness is always present.

EnterZenFromThere wrote:
I've encountered many people along my little journey here who have said things like you are saying here. Making grand claims based on their own individual experiences. Claiming universal truths and making sweeping statements about the experiences of others.

What have I said that is not truth? What have I said that you cannot directly experience for yourself? The practice is simple but there are traps people can fall into(spiritual seeking). If I don't agree with something on this forum I will speak out about it, if you disagree with a truth I speak of, you are free to question it. I will do my best to answer.



EnterZenFromThere wrote: In a reality that demonstrates fractal expression of Self how and why would anything be non-self?

You are confused, I have not claimed anything as not-self?

EnterZenFromThere wrote:How can a non-awareness exist? If it is not aware, how can it be?

Where did I say awareness does not exist?


EnterZenFromThere wrote:I'm trying to understand more fully how you perceive yourself. Are you saying you don't perceive? That you are non-self? And that this state of not being is some ideal state? Why is this state considered higher than any other state? What is so special about the state you describe? Why is it liberation? Why is something else non-liberation? What EXACTLY is liberation?

You will have to answer these questions, nothing I can say will satisfy your craving, but I do not have these questions.

EnterZenFromThere wrote:E.g. you say you have experienced interactions with higher beings. I have as well. So I can relate to the importance of not attaching to these experiences. They are like sign posts - guiding to deeper reaches.

They are not signposts guiding you, as soon as you identify with these you get stuck there, see these states as impermanent, do not identify with them, and you will rise to higher planes, until a level of purity is reached. Then and only then will one be ripe to transcend.

EnterZenFromThere wrote: I am so curious!
Yes, full of craving. You will not find these answers from me, but I do not have these questions. I am simply pointing you away from the dangers of this craving, or helping you to see this craving.


EnterZenFromThere wrote:What could this human being offer to me that my own higher self cannot? What answers will it give to these questions? Will it just give the same disappointing non-sense that I've heard so many times before? Will it provide a spark of insight that sets me on a new leg of my journey?! Who knows! Either way, can I lose??? Oh my friend - how can I lose?!

When I see people chasing higher states, NDE's, OBE's, I pop their bubble so they fall back to ground where they can pick themselves up and begin to walk the spiritual path again, also when I see people who have fallen into a pit of despair I reach in and try to pull them out so they too can begin to walk the path again. We are all walking the path my friend, we all need companions.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Sun May 10, 2015 2:06 am

Enlightened2B wrote:Energy healing in my own experience, is working through energetic blockages that occur on multiple levels of our being (considering that each of us has multiple selves across multiple frequencies and dimensions) that quite possibly gets carried over from lifetime to lifetime and also blockages that develop in this lifetime alone. Blockages that manifest physically within the body as well. Consider that one of the many reasons we incarnate here is for healing, healing of old emotional blockages. Healing occurs on a greater level in the physical frequencies because of the gain on this level. That's what my experience of energy healing is. But, what I'm starting to learn is that you don't necessarily need another person to heal you. Energy healing can seemingly occur on an even greater level when we have access to our past lives and understanding who we truly are as energetic beings and why we incarnated in this life in the first place and a true connection to our higher selves and our soul group.


When someone uses energy to heal you what wisdom have you acquired? When you go to the chiropractor and they open you up, what wisdom have you acquired to prevent this blockage from re-occurring? None, zip, nada. You go home feel good for some time and then go back to taking the same actions that create these blockages. Insight practice is about acquiring the highest wisdom, the wisdom of direct experience, you will experience first hand blockages being formed and blockages passing away, you will directly feel the burn of thoughts you produce and you will come out of creating these. How many times did your mother warn you not to touch the stove, countless times until you finally touched the burning stove, and then she never had to tell you again, you acquired the highest wisdom, you first hand experienced the burn and you did not do this again. Well at least I hope you didn't :wink:

Enlightened2B wrote:In regards to your comment about out of body experiences....who's implying that they are something to chase after? So, in other words, I can't find any interests in life because anything I find an interest in is impermanent? Welcome to nihilism if that's how you choose to perceive reality.

This depends on your level of spiritual growth, as you come out of craving, you will renounce much. But the path is a gradual development of ones perfections.

Enlightened2B wrote:Did you consider possibly the enlightening experiences that people have had from exploring out of their body or channeling or going through a life between life regression session?
Enlightening maybe for a moment but has any wisdom been acquired to prevent future self creation.

Enlightened2B wrote:That these people are experiencing something far deeper than you and I can possibly experience by formal meditation?

Now what exists in this universe that cannot be directly experienced through meditation.


Enlightened2B wrote:Have you considered that what we call Oneness or impermanence is merely us connecting to our higher selves?

Selves indicates more than one.

Enlightened2B wrote:And the higher self is merely an even smaller fractal of a greater Source which is a smaller fractal of something even greater and on and on? Meaning, invididuality is an expression in fractal form of an even greater and greater and greater reality with possibly no end ultimately meaning that individuality is an intended manifestation with complete free will, of an on going greater and greater fractal.

I assure you one is not this complicated.

Enlightened2B wrote:I'm studying out of body techniques right now and am scheduled for a life between life regression session with Robert Schwartz in 4 months from now because I have a lot of shit in my life anxiety wise still that comes up.

You can't escape from your past my friend, you need to look at and feel this anxiety, but you need to be taught how to do this. I personally would not waste my time chasing after out of body experiences.

Enlightened2B wrote:I've come a long way in my own life from where I was three years ago. But, I'm starting to see that the fears that are being mirrored back to me in my daily experience, all stem from old emotional wounds that have not been healed and likely stemming from previous lifetimes. So, I feel true healing can occur if I can access my higher selves through non-physical exploration.

The higher selves are already liberated to some extent, you need to focus on whatever presents itself now, not go looking for past wounds, let things work naturally, just look at whatever is occurring within the framework of the body now.

Enlightened2B wrote:However, I've also been listening to a bunch of Eckhart Tolle videos lately because his advice is so practical and is applicable to every one of us that I cherish his teachings still. Yet, Eckhart's teachings are not in opposition to non physical exploration. If anything, they all teach us to go within.

Yes, Eckhart is guiding one into the body, to be with the present moment at a deep level, where you can witness the process of mind and matter, and gain the experience to come out of suffering.


Enlightened2B wrote:It's merely a matter of our own beliefs when we do go within.

No, belief has nothing to do with direct experience.

Enlightened2B wrote: Surrendering and embracing 'what is' is the focal point of most all discussion on this forum and is the first aspect of awakening that most of us resonate with and is the gateway to freedom, no doubt, while resistance is suppression and quite the opposite. But, I'd suggest that who we truly are in the greater frequencies is far far far more complex than what we possibly can understand by a formal meditation practice. So, why not explore it first hand deeper?

You are not those higher frequencies, they are no greater than any other frequency, frequency is frequency, see that this is not you, you are not the pain in the lower frequencies, and you are not the pleasantness in the higher frequencies, you are simply the awareness of this experience.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Sun May 10, 2015 5:04 pm

Fore wrote:When a level of purity has been reached through mental purification, one is fit to transcend the field of mind and matter. No sights, no smell, no sound, no taste, no tactile sensations, no thoughts. Now can you imagine this, no you cannot because there is no thought, no imagination, just awareness(this all knowing ever present awareness). There is nothing for this awareness to be aware of, but awareness itself. This cannot be known, but as thoughts, tactile sensations, colours, smells, and tastes return, one can simply be this awareness.


I've been to a place that fits with some of this, though I suspect it differs from what you are describing - I'll summarise what happened as I'd like to hear your take on it. I should say before I begin I realise the importance of craving for experience and wouldn't say I crave the experience I'm about the describe, but I do inquire as to it's meaning and where I can go from here. I was out of body and interacting with a teacher entity. It asked me to feel the awareness in my right hand. Then in my left. It said, the hands are different, but the awareness is the same. As I felt that awareness something shifted in me, like my entire body collapsed in on itself. I was then in a tunnel of darkness moving toward a bright light in the distance. As I moved closer to the light a part of me became an orgasmic sensation while another became utter terror. It reached a kind of peak where the terror and pleasure were both immense. I then moved through that and became the light. All I experienced was unchanging light and a kind of peak unchanging orgasm. After an unknown period of time I came back into my physical body with the sensation of lightening shooting up and down my spine. Similar experiences happened a few times that night. That was about a year ago. I did crave after it for a time (perhaps I still do). These days I'm more interested in focusing on presence than these kinds of experience - so what you are saying here in your reply is resonating with me strongly. I am aware I am full of craving - of desire and fear. I feel I am in a process of cleansing this, and have been since my first contact with presence almost 2 years ago. It feels as if some big shift is building within me - I feel various energies within my inner body moving and my awareness on different levels changing - clarifying somewhat. I don't know what this shift will mean , and suspect that even giving attention to whether a shift is or is not occurring is counter intuitive - but it's a part of the process within my present awareness. Are you familiar with the experiences I describe here? Do you have any advice from your perspective?

Fore wrote:If I don't agree with something on this forum I will speak out about it, if you disagree with a truth I speak of, you are free to question it. I will do my best to answer.


That's fair enough - can't really ask for more than that.

Fore wrote:You are confused, I have not claimed anything as not-self?


I'm not sure where I got that from. And yes, I am confused - probably best that I just admit that - life is confusing to me :P

Fore wrote:They are not signposts guiding you, as soon as you identify with these you get stuck there, see these states as impermanent, do not identify with them, and you will rise to higher planes, until a level of purity is reached. Then and only then will one be ripe to transcend.


I'm unsure how to do that within those planes. I'll explore and see what happens.

Fore wrote:Yes, full of craving. You will not find these answers from me, but I do not have these questions. I am simply pointing you away from the dangers of this craving, or helping you to see this craving.


Yes it is something I'm growing in awareness of. My current practice is to remain present with these experiences. Sometimes I get lost in them, sometimes I don't.

Fore wrote:When I see people chasing higher states, NDE's, OBE's, I pop their bubble so they fall back to ground where they can pick themselves up and begin to walk the spiritual path again, also when I see people who have fallen into a pit of despair I reach in and try to pull them out so they too can begin to walk the path again. We are all walking the path my friend, we all need companions.


I think I needed my bubble to be popped. It feels better this way. It's interesting exploring how what you say here relates to what my guides are saying and how the advice from this level and their advice from theirs can be seen as the same thing - vibration guiding to liberation: though, as they would say, "even this, a pleasant fiction".
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun May 10, 2015 5:52 pm

Fore, I sense some compassion within your posts and I feel you have good intentions, but until you describe your own experience in detail, I say you're just another internet poster dogmatically trying to throw a set of teachings that you've resonated with on someone else. Here's why I say this....

E2B:And the higher self is merely an even smaller fractal of a greater Source which is a smaller fractal of something even greater and on and on? Meaning, invididuality is an expression in fractal form of an even greater and greater and greater reality with possibly no end ultimately meaning that individuality is an intended manifestation with complete free will, of an on going greater and greater fractal.

Fore:I assure you one is not this complicated.


You assure me? :lol: Now, tell me Fore, what is your direct experience that you can possibly know that this is not the case to the comfort level that you can assure me of this?

I think you have some valuable insight on the main jist of presence and awakening which as I described in the first post to you in this thread, I resonate with. And if you remember from last year, when you used to post here, you and I did resonate on certain things. Yet, what I described above pertaining to fractals, has been reported by many many people who have gone out of body and channeled in the higher frequencies, and have had profound NDE's like Nanci Danison who talks about there being multiple Source Entities on going, and intuitively has come to mind for me. I don't claim it as a fact at all, but a mere possibility. Instead, what you are saying, is that you are beyond all of that where you know for a fact (since you said you assure me that one is not this complicated) that fractals do not exist in the way I describe.

Therefore, like those before who come on to this board before to claim such knowings, I now contest that unless you describe your direct experience in your own journey, that you can 'assure' me that reality is not as complicated as I describe in terms of fractals, I can't take you seriously. And I want to take you seriously, but you have not described any part of your own journey here. All you've done is say 'this is how it is'. You keep saying that you're talking from personal experience, but where is the experience? You're not describing it. If you want to be a teacher, then you have to share your own journey as well. Otherwise, you're just another hack on an internet forum throwing ideas around that they've possibly read out of a scripture or something. And I'm not labeling you as such. I'm saying, this is how you can possibly be perceived to others when you preach without any resume to back it up. I want to read your own experience where you've come to the conclusion that you can know directly that reality is not as such as I describe above pertaining to fractals. So, I will await for your response to hear from your own experience in detail.

Thanks Fore
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Sun May 10, 2015 8:07 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote: I was out of body and interacting with a teacher entity. It asked me to feel the awareness in my right hand. Then in my left. It said, the hands are different, but the awareness is the same. As I felt that awareness something shifted in me, like my entire body collapsed in on itself. I was then in a tunnel of darkness moving toward a bright light in the distance. As I moved closer to the light a part of me became an orgasmic sensation while another became utter terror. It reached a kind of peak where the terror and pleasure were both immense. I then moved through that and became the light. All I experienced was unchanging light and a kind of peak unchanging orgasm. After an unknown period of time I came back into my physical body with the sensation of lightening shooting up and down my spine.


Firstly, understand that I am in no way trying to downplay this experience, it is definitely coming in contact with the higher vibrations(selves).
As you describe the experience, in no way were you out of body. You can describe the experience, there was light(lightwaves) there were sounds(the entity talking to you). The orgasmic sensation you experienced, this is all indication that you were in contact with the bodily senses, also mind sense was still there as there was thoughts occurring analyzing the experience. You did not transcend mind and body you remained within your universal experience.

The hands are a place we can go to when we are experiencing intense suffering, perhaps this entity is aware of your anxieties, and is offering advice, usually when there is intense suffering in other parts of the body the hands are usually experiencing subtler realities. The point below the nose and above the upper lip is also a place to go.

The experience definitely opened up the spinal chakras for a moment, this created craving within the mind and intensified the experience, as this occurs more often and your level of attachment towards this experience decreases the experience will become more subtle. there is a fine energy to be experienced when we pierce the spinal chord.


EnterZenFromThere wrote: I did crave after it for a time (perhaps I still do).


This experience is no more important than experiencing moments of anxiety, if we learn to observe the vibrations experienced on the body and see their impermanent changing nature we are with present moment as it is and not as we would like it to be. Some sensations are pleasant some unpleasant and some neutral. Simply observing these sensation with a calm balanced mind, we stop creating more self and we begin to liberate past selves. This is how we purify the mind.
EnterZenFromThere wrote: I don't know what this shift will mean
Don't try to figure this out, just be with this moment. We are meant to come out of thinking analyzing will create more thought.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun May 10, 2015 9:52 pm

Fore wrote:As you describe the experience, in no way were you out of body. You can describe the experience, there was light(lightwaves) there were sounds(the entity talking to you). The orgasmic sensation you experienced, this is all indication that you were in contact with the bodily senses, also mind sense was still there as there was thoughts occurring analyzing the experience. You did not transcend mind and body you remained within your universal experience.


I'm sorry to bud in here, but this is kind of what I was talking about. You claim outright that this is not an out of body experience, because of the reasons you describe above. However, what you probably are not taking into account, is that what Jack is describing above (whether he did actually go out of body or not) is exactly what many people who have OBE's describe to a tee!

You're saying that because there was experience of light and sound, that this is an indication that he was still in the body. I'm saying that near deathers and out of body travelers all still experience sounds and light very very much so. Blind people have seen after leaving the body! So your dismissal of this has no backing and in my opinion is un justified and likely shows your lack of understanding of non-physical experiences.

I keep questioning your own experience here because you continue to talk as a guru, and I believe you have had experiences of your own, but from reading your posts, it sounds like you're taking your own experiences to be the 'be all end all'. Some of your comments are quite dismissive, such as my definition of ego, (which you claimed I was confused about), my post about fractals (which you claim to know is not the case) and then when someone claims to have gone out of body, knowing nothing about their direct experience, you claim it also to not be the case either, likely because neither of these experiences match your own experience. But, perhaps your own experience in spirituality is just that....your own experience and perhaps is not nearly as deep as others have gone. I have not had ANY profoundly deep spiritual experiences to write about, nor do I desire them, but then again I don't claim to be enlightened or know anything. I'm just my own unique expression of the whole. I don't go around telling people how they should be living or what they should or shouldn't be experiencing. I'm extremely skeptical of people who come on this forum (like former poster Phil2) and claim this 'enlightened' status (whether they use that word or not), when they don't back up their claims with any personal experience.

There's no one path Fore. I love what you say about Eckharts teachings because that resonates with me, especially when you talk about presence. For me, it always comes back to the 'Now' and presence. It's so easy to get so caught up in spiritual ideas and such and forget the basic, most important aspect which is 'Being' itself....or....the NOW. It happens to me at times when I get caught up with NDE studies. However, there's also an incredible amount of insight to be gained, if you allow yourself to attain that within presence. I don't think you have a full understanding (nor do I, but I don't claim to either) of non-physical experiences and realities, and it really shows more and more in each of your posts. This is exactly why I'd like to know more, in detail, about exactly what your direct experiences are. What is like for you to go out of your body? Can you tell me the pre-cursors you feel within the physical body prior to leaving your body. I've had numerous lucid dreams and almost OBE's and I know first hand what the pre-cursor symptoms are within the body. If you're going to tell someone what an out of body experience is and what it isn't, you should have the back up claim of your own experience to prove this.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Mon May 11, 2015 3:00 am

Enlightened2B wrote:Fore, I sense some compassion within your posts and I feel you have good intentions, but until you describe your own experience in detail, I say you're just another internet poster dogmatically trying to throw a set of teachings that you've resonated with on someone else.


I am trying to share the details of my experience, and the insights. You are defensive(not open) towards what I have to say. Perhaps what I have to say threatens your current belief structure. There is some vocabulary that we need get on the same page with, the sharing of my experience is not going to benefit you or satisfy your curiosity, nor will it be understandable to you. This is why I am simply discussing practical theoretical aspects as they can be experienced and understood as absolute truths. Understanding all the planes of existence is not necessary for liberation, experiencing all the planes of existence and transcending them through the wisdom that you are not these planes is.
Understand that I am a student not a teacher, and I am not trying to guide and teach you through this experience, if you are interested I can provide you with an appropriate facility for this, but only if you are interested.


Enlightened2B wrote:Yet, what I described above pertaining to fractals, has been reported by many many people who have gone out of body and channeled in the higher frequencies, and have had profound NDE's like Nanci Danison who talks about there being multiple Source Entities on going, and intuitively has come to mind for me. I don't claim it as a fact at all, but a mere possibility. Instead, what you are saying, is that you are beyond all of that where you know for a fact (since you said you assure me that one is not this complicated) that fractals do not exist in the way I describe.


Where did I disagree with your assessment of this complexities of self? I am saying that it is unimportant to understand this complex self, you only need to directly experience this self as it presents itself now, you should not go seeking any experience in particular, this is craving. Also how is experiencing this selves going beyond body, or near death? If there is the senses of self you are in body, whether this is a heavier body from a lower field or whether this is a body of light from the higher field this is still body(form) and you are still present. To me this is not out of body, this is what I would like to clarify. I understand many consider these experiences to be out of their body, but in reality one is merely, moving from a particular frequency(human experience) to a lower or higher frequency, the senses remain intact during this experience.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Mon May 11, 2015 3:42 am

Enlightened2B wrote:


You're saying that because there was experience of light and sound, that this is an indication that he was still in the body. I'm saying that near deathers and out of body travelers all still experience sounds and light very very much so. Blind people have seen after leaving the body! So your dismissal of this has no backing and in my opinion is un justified and likely shows your lack of understanding of non-physical experiences.


I'm hoping that my previous post shed some light on this discrepancy, if not keep the questions coming.

Enlightened2B wrote:I keep questioning your own experience here because you continue to talk as a guru

I am not a teacher or guide. Yes, I have had vivid experiences of this nature, and am willing to share them, but think of me as a fellow traveller, in close proximity to you all here on this forum, perhaps a few steps further than some, and perhaps a few steps behind others.

Enlightened2B wrote:There's no one path Fore. I love what you say about Eckharts teachings because that resonates with me, especially when you talk about presence. For me, it always comes back to the 'Now' and presence. It's so easy to get so caught up in spiritual ideas and such and forget the basic, most important aspect which is 'Being' itself....or....the NOW. It happens to me at times when I get caught up with NDE studies. However, there's also an incredible amount of insight to be gained


You are right that there is not one path, and mastering the mundane states of concentration, and developing powers to read minds and cross from one plane to another, and perform miracles is one way to go, but this is not the wisdom of experience that will take one beyond mind and matter and eradicate attachment to self. To go beyond mind and matter direct wisdom of experience must be developed, this will produce a special type of concentration (supramundane) that takes one beyond mind and matter.

This is what Eckhart teaches, a practical way for you and I to come out of our suffering, slowly bit by bit one step at a time. For this we work with direct experience, whatever is experienced on the body now.

To induce mundane states of concentration one can use hypnosis, chantings, mantras, church singing, counting, observing different coloured discs, staring at a candle, projecting or imagining leaving the body, etc... these will develop concentration very quickly and one may have vivid experiences of other realms as we have been describing. Very stable orbs of light become present, beautiful colours swirling around, turning into vivid images can occur, all kinds of stuff can come up. These states feel awesome and one comes out of these states feeling lighter and great, but when the same old mundane stuff of daily life occurs like that guy cuts you off on the highway, we react in blindness and create self. Slowly our peaceful state becomes one of agitation and we find ourselves searching for another experience, we become addicted to chasing after other states instead of being with this moment as it is with all its boredom and misery, and seeing that we are not this stuff.



Enlightened2B wrote:This is exactly why I'd like to know more, in detail, about exactly what your direct experiences are. What is like for you to go out of your body? Can you tell me the pre-cursors you feel within the physical body prior to leaving your body. I've had numerous lucid dreams and almost OBE's and I know first hand what the pre-cursor symptoms are within the body. If you're going to tell someone what an out of body experience is and what it isn't, you should have the back up claim of your own experience to prove this.


I have no problem describing an experience, but are we on the same page with these OBE/NDE experiences still being within the realm of the bodily senses? What I will attempt to share is the experience of going beyond the body, and ultimately going beyond mind and body. In an attempt to show a difference in these experiences.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon May 11, 2015 5:29 am

Hey Fore

Fore wrote:
I am trying to share the details of my experience, and the insights.


Well.....I appreciate that

You are defensive(not open) towards what I have to say. Perhaps what I have to say threatens your current belief structure.


I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'd say that is your own perception if you think I'm being defensive. On the other hand, I have been irritated by your posts haha and it's evident in my responses of course and that's my own issue I need to work on, with a lack of patience at times for perspectives that differ than my own and you've made me aware of that just now once again and I thank you. Yet, I have absolutely nothing to defend. Trust me, every time I think I'm 'there' (whatever that means), my bubble is constantly being burst with new insights. So, I don't find anything threatening anymore. And if I do, it's a good wake up call for me 8) But, thank you for pointing that out anyway.

I'll explain more at the bottom of the post.

I think you're referring to liberation as freedom from the ego perspective and I can respect that of course. Yet, I don't agree with your perspective of calling the ego misery or ugly though, at least from my own perspective. I have chosen to look at human life with appreciation, in the understanding that every challenge is an opportunity for growth and learning for my own evolution as me as an individual, yet, not separate aspect of Oneness. And there's a chance that I planned some of these challenges myself pre-incarnation.

There is some vocabulary that we need get on the same page with, the sharing of my experience is not going to benefit you or satisfy your curiosity, nor will it be understandable to you.


I very much disagree. The sharing of our experiences is what makes each perspective credible and how we relate to one another.

Understand that I am a student not a teacher, and I am not trying to guide and teach you through this experience, if you are interested I can provide you with an appropriate facility for this, but only if you are interested.


Interested in what? appropriate facility for what?

Where did I disagree with your assessment of this complexities of self? I am saying that it is unimportant to understand this complex self, you only need to directly experience this self as it presents itself now, you should not go seeking any experience in particular, this is craving. Also how is experiencing this selves going beyond body, or near death?


But, who is talking about seeking an experience? That always seems to be the line from people who like to dismiss NDE/OBE's and I think I'm just getting tired of hearing it all of the time. Now I see where you and I differ as well. You seem to think that NDE/OBE and other non physical exploration is more of a thrill seeking experience of sorts for some and a form of craving and you're saying that it's unnecessary for liberation. However, many of us have gained incredible insight and clarity as a complementary tool in researching and exploring first hand the non physical realms. This is why I said to you, unless you have directly read reports yourself or have traveled out of your body, then you can't possibly understand the insight that countless other people have gained from these experiences directly or indirectly. I'm not saying that people should be substituting 'presence' work such as meditation and such in place of seeking out of body experiences. I'm saying as a complementary tool, there can be so much further clarity on our nature through this avenue of exploration if one chooses to explore it. Is it necessary? It depends on the person entirely. Yes, it can be a distraction as well.

As for the other part of the quote above. You disagreed with my assessment of the complexities of self when you wrote this exact line "I assure you one is not this complicated."

If there is the senses of self you are in body, whether this is a heavier body from a lower field or whether this is a body of light from the higher field this is still body(form) and you are still present. To me this is not out of body, this is what I would like to clarify. I understand many consider these experiences to be out of their body, but in reality one is merely, moving from a particular frequency(human experience) to a lower or higher frequency, the senses remain intact during this experience.


Thanks for clarifying. In general, based on what you say above, I'd say this is not accurate from what I've come to understand about out of body exploration. Experiencing frequencies has nothing at all to do with merely being a human experience. The human experience is merely one potential incredibly dense frequency....possibly one of the lowest. However, moving from frequency to frequency and dimension to dimension is a regular occurrence in out of body exploration from my own understanding. You should look into Guy Needler's work if you're interested. He channeled (supposedly) up to the 100th frequency and discovered that our sense of individuality never ends! As the choice to keep our individuality is completely ours once we reach the highest possible frequency and come to point of 'merging' back into Source.

You talk about transcending the planes or dimensions. Yet, how do you know that what you're experiencing is as deep as you're describing it when other people have seemingly gone deeper and came to different realizations than you? It seems that awakening to our true nature as Oneness, is paramount in going to the higher frequencies once we leave these bodies for good. However, regardless, we are all going back to the same "place/non place" once this life is over likely. If some of us still have stuff to deal with healing wise, then maybe we will continue to incarnate here on earth or move to a different planet. But, leaving your body has nothing to do with transcending anything and is an incredibly common occurrence and happens every single night when we sleep. Thousands of people go out of body every day.

Since this video was posted earlier on this board, I've gained so much more clarity on what out of body experiences actually are, as I, myself have been basically experiencing the early stages of OBE's for years (I've been lucid dreaming since I was a kid) apparently and never realized it. Going through sleep paralysis and experiencing the vibratory stage of leaving my body with the buzzing feeling all through my body and in my ears and also experiencing (what I used to perceive) as evil entities by my bed who would tickle me, which left me in crippling, crippling fear when I was young, always left me wondering what on earth i was experiencing. Now when the fear arises, when I lucid dream, I realize that it's a sign to me that I have a lot of fear in my life that I need to embrace. I'm not sure what else I need to do at this time though with that fear and I'm still waiting on some insights as to where to go further with this. Anyway, what I was experiencing was actually an out of body experience at the earliest stage. Please watch this video if you'd like to have a better understanding of OBE exploration. This guy appears to be the ultimate expert. No spiritual dogma associated with this. Simply a basic understanding that we are all interdimensional Beings and we are meant to explore the other realms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omKS82YDjIY
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon May 11, 2015 5:51 am

Fore wrote:I have no problem describing an experience, but are we on the same page with these OBE/NDE experiences still being within the realm of the bodily senses? What I will attempt to share is the experience of going beyond the body, and ultimately going beyond mind and body. In an attempt to show a difference in these experiences.


Not at all. Not even in the slightest chance ha. We are definitely not on the same page with this. But, it's perfectly ok. We don't have to be. :D

I've gone beyond the mind and body myself, at least what I deem to be beyond the mind and body, and discovered that there is only Awareness. How could there be anything else? However, I've never been able to tell for sure where that Awareness stems from. How can I know that it's not a product of the brain? That's why non-physical exploration has become so valuable to me. My own realization of Awareness as my nature, is something far far different than actually going out of body and gaining that direct 'knowing'. I would like that direct knowing personally which I don't have right now. I'm not sure if that makes sense or not.

But, if you'd like to talk about it, I would absolutely love to hear about your experience of going beyond the body to see if it's anything like what I've experienced. I'm curious too, what you mean by this.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Mon May 11, 2015 12:55 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
Not at all. Not even in the slightest chance ha. We are definitely not on the same page with this. But, it's perfectly ok. We don't have to be. :D


It is important, that we have an understanding of what each other is discussing to a certain degree or else expressing experience is lost.
When you say you have OBE's or lucid dreams, you witness other beings and interact with other beings, I imagine you doing this in a subtler body than that which you experience in human form, am I correct. My question is do you ever merge with these apparently separate beings and directly experience the mind they carry, when those beings as a child would come and tease and tickle you did you ever experience what it was like as one of them, their thoughts bodily sensations? Or were you more of an outside observer, observing as yourself, just in a subtler form? Could you experience their suffering, and reasons for troubling you? Could you develop compassion for their intense suffering? Either way you were in touch with the sense doors in this experience.

Enlightened2B wrote: I've gone beyond the mind and body myself

E2b went beyond mind and body, this sense of self went beyond mind and body? This seems impossible or am I misunderstanding, I know it is extremely difficult to discuss this level of experience.


Enlightened2B wrote: That's why non-physical exploration has become so valuable to me.

But you have only described physical experience, albeit a subtler form but still form, this is not beyond body. The bondages must be broken within this physical(body) there is no liberative wisdom to be gained in non-physical realms.


Enlightened2B wrote: My own realization of Awareness as my nature, is something far far different than actually going out of body and gaining that direct 'knowing'. I would like that direct knowing personally which I don't have right now. I'm not sure if that makes sense or not.

It makes sense that a level of awareness has been experienced, partial penetration of the egoic veil, but there has not been awareness of awareness, you are still capable of falling into darkness(states of extreme misery).

Enlightened2B wrote: But, if you'd like to talk about it, I would absolutely love to hear about your experience of going beyond the body to see if it's anything like what I've experienced. I'm curious too, what you mean by this.


I have already begun discussing this, we need to come to common ground about these experiences within this samsaric realm as they pertain to sensation, before we can discuss going beyond, otherwise no insight into how to stop generating self and come out of the bondage of self can come to fruition. This anxiety you have is caused from yes, possibly many past life traumas, and this has wound you up into a very complex set of knots. You need to learn how to let go of the ropes so they can naturally unbind(come out of tension). Giving importance or searching for a past life trauma and reliving this is like going to the chiroprachtor, you may untie one knot, but you will not have learned how to stop generating these actions that lead to new knots. You naturally bound yourself up you need to naturally unbind. This involves observing bodily sensations at a depth of experience where one can experience mind and reaction to these.
My fear is that you crave knowledge of experience in a hope that this knowledge will somehow act as a quick fix, instead of walking the path and observing this reality as it presents itself in whatever uninteresting or sometimes painful manifestation. You seem to want to experience something that is going to fix you, but seem to ignore the mundane beings tugging at you right now.
I understand that I can come off a preachy, and I accept this about my forum presence, but this is how you present yourself.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon May 11, 2015 4:08 pm

Fore wrote:
It is important, that we have an understanding of what each other is discussing to a certain degree or else expressing experience is lost.
When you say you have OBE's or lucid dreams, you witness other beings and interact with other beings, I imagine you doing this in a subtler body than that which you experience in human form, am I correct. My question is do you ever merge with these apparently separate beings and directly experience the mind they carry, when those beings as a child would come and tease and tickle you did you ever experience what it was like as one of them, their thoughts bodily sensations? Or were you more of an outside observer, observing as yourself, just in a subtler form? Could you experience their suffering, and reasons for troubling you? Could you develop compassion for their intense suffering? Either way you were in touch with the sense doors in this experience.


First of all, I've never had an OBE. I said I've experienced the very early stages of them, meaning the pre-cursors to them in the vibrational stage. I've had countless lucid dreams, which is another pre-cursor to OBE. But, I think we are simply going to have to agree to disagree here, because it seems like both have vastly different understandings of OBE. I've researched them plenty and from our conversations, it doesn't sound like you really have an understanding of what out of body exploration actually is. I mean this politely. Nor will you explain your experience with out of body exploration as I've asked, so that at least, i can understand if you have actually experienced it or not. I'll leave it at that.

E2B: But, if you'd like to talk about it, I would absolutely love to hear about your experience of going beyond the body to see if it's anything like what I've experienced. I'm curious too, what you mean by this.

fore: I have already begun discussing this, we need to come to common ground about these experiences within this samsaric realm as they pertain to sensation, before we can discuss going beyond, otherwise no insight into how to stop generating self and come out of the bondage of self can come to fruition. This anxiety you have is caused from yes, possibly many past life traumas, and this has wound you up into a very complex set of knots. You need to learn how to let go of the ropes so they can naturally unbind(come out of tension). Giving importance or searching for a past life trauma and reliving this is like going to the chiroprachtor, you may untie one knot, but you will not have learned how to stop generating these actions that lead to new knots. You naturally bound yourself up you need to naturally unbind. This involves observing bodily sensations at a depth of experience where one can experience mind and reaction to these.
My fear is that you crave knowledge of experience in a hope that this knowledge will somehow act as a quick fix, instead of walking the path and observing this reality as it presents itself in whatever uninteresting or sometimes painful manifestation. You seem to want to experience something that is going to fix you, but seem to ignore the mundane beings tugging at you right now.
I understand that I can come off a preachy, and I accept this about my forum presence, but this is how you present yourself.


Fore, you make some good points above, and you could be dead accurate with certain points.

However, look at the quote above and read your response. I asked you once again to describe your experience with going out of body and going beyond body/mind, and you have once again.....not done so. Conveniently, you write "I've already begun discussing this". Really? Where? You haven't written a single thing about your own experience, but you keep saying that you are. I'm only writing what I see here Fore.

You seem to claim to know so much about out of body exploration, past lives, and the fractal nature of reality, but yet, you have not shared a single shred or aspect of your own personal experience to back these claims. What is your own personal experience with life between life regression therapy and what is your own personal experience with the healing aspect of it that you can judge it? Yet, you're asking me a ton of questions, which I would absolutely love to share with you, but will not do so, until you provide your own experience. Understand, there is no agitation in my post right now. I'm speaking strictly from the heart here to you at this point and it's not that you're coming across as preachy. No. You're coming across as someone on the internet pretending to be an enlightened guru who might have read a few teachings here and there and is no spouting this information, with no actual experience to back it up. There's a huge difference between the two. Thus far, I've found you have very little understanding of actual out of body exploration, nor have you shared any part of your experience with past life and life between life regression that can you judge in the way you have. Therefore, how can you claim that these are 'quick fixes', when you, yourself don't seem to even understand the greater context to these healing therapies? Not to mention, that once again, I never claimed for these therapies to be a permament fix, but a complementary addition to a practice of presence.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon May 11, 2015 5:04 pm

Fore wrote:You naturally bound yourself up you need to naturally unbind. This involves observing bodily sensations at a depth of experience where one can experience mind and reaction to these.


This is the part where I do resonate with. I wanted to point that out, so that you don't think I'm just ripping you apart. I have been meditating for many years. (on and off), but recently been working with 'The Presence Process', kind of incoporating it into my daily life. You'd probably like the book.

My fear is that you crave knowledge of experience in a hope that this knowledge will somehow act as a quick fix, instead of walking the path and observing this reality as it presents itself in whatever uninteresting or sometimes painful manifestation. You seem to want to experience something that is going to fix you, but seem to ignore the mundane beings tugging at you right now.


Another part of your post that I resonated with, but who says I'm not walking the path already, just because I find other areas of spirituality to provide greater clarity as well? Who says I don't practice meditation in my own right, whether it's formal or not? I don't believe in dogmatic sitting practices anymore (although I used to), but I do incorporate meditation (mindfulness) into every aspect of my experience. Do I get lost in life at times? Absolutely. And I'm learning more and more not to beat myself up for it because I love myself up enough these days to realize that I'm not perfect, but the problem with me, is that I have control issues that cause anxiety in my life. Everytime anxiety comes up, it's always do to resistance and control and I've seen that and it's been quite healing in its own right! It's related to sleep and other areas of my life as well. Observing it has worked wonders for me at times, but, but, but it doesn't get to the root cause, because it still pops up. I've come to realize that much of it likely stems from childhood issues and also past life issues that have not been resolved and are not fully coming to light and I don't know how to get to those aspects of myself to bring them to light and I feel I'm struggling at times and I want to bring those aspects that are currently in the dark to light so that i can embrace them with love and I know they are there, but hard to access for me personally. So, what is your advice going forward on this? What is your own personal practice that has worked for you? This is why I want to know your own experience, to see if I can apply it to my own experience as well?
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Tue May 12, 2015 1:35 am

Enlightened2B wrote: First of all, I've never had an OBE. I said I've experienced the very early stages of them, meaning the pre-cursors to them in the vibrational stage.

This is the depth of experience, where we can work to cleanse the mind. As long as we can see the arising and passing(impermanent nature) of the experience then this is good enough. What one practices to activate this can depend on ones individuality and past conditioning, but it is not necessary to gain deeper experience than this to begin. This activation will shake up the past traumas, and we are to work with whatever presents itself. A deep misery may come to the surface and this is what we need to work with, generally deep miseries come to the surface and we must muddle our way through them. At any time a deeper subtler experience may present itself, and then this is what we work with. In your case its likely these anxieties will manifest and you will experience much tension in the chest and stomach, the practice is to simply observe these tensions(sensations) and see that they are in a continuous state of change, you will also observe mind while experiencing this, is mind balanced, or is mind full of aversion, when balanced what is the experience like, when full of aversion how do these thoughts affect this flow of energy. This is where wisdom is developed.

On one retreat, I began to really miss my kids, I began to become anxious, and this let to darker thoughts, I began imagining people locked in solitary confinement, never seeing their kids again, as I was working in isolation I had no stimulus to distract the mind, for six days I sat with these terrible thoughts, I had slipped into a very dark place, my chest was aching it felt like there was boulder in there, my meditation sittings were full of pain and discomfort. Finally on the sixth day, I simply started to look at the anxious sensation instead of trying to push it away. I began to realise that on its own it was not really that bad, it was like a strong hunger pang, little by little I came out of this fear and probed deeper and deeper into the body, my thoughts of fear and anxiety were replaced with those of curiosity and excitement, then this tension began to break apart and this very fast vibration was experienced. I realized this is excitement, my mind was full of craving for this excitement, sitting with this for some time, my mind calmed and the flow of energy became softer, and subtler energies became apparent in different parts of the body. Now this is not the out of body experience, but in this retreat I worked not only through the aversion but also the craving. As soon as the energy flow regained stability I sat with this for some time and then another trauma came to the surface, and initially I pushed it away craving for the calmness to come back, and it strengthened, until I began to look at it, and then I worked with this, in similar fashion to the other trauma. Some traumas are very deep, and I've noticed sitting long retreats, that sometimes something I was working on in a past retreat resurfaces on the next one and I carry on looking at this, it seems like, my practice on retreats is working with one trauma(storm) after another. Nothing spectacular just trauma after trauma as they naturally come to the surface.

For the first two year of my practice, I brought up so much stuff that I was working as intensely at home as on retreat, I thought I was going to get divorced I was so miserable at times, I was continually aware of tension within the body, not much of a break from this.

I returned for another retreat, and I'm telling you fire and brimstone came to the surface, I sat with what felt like acid pumping through my veins, for whatever reason this extreme pain propelled me into a very deep concentrated state, I think it was that when I was not concentrated the meditation sittings were absolutely unbearable, nothing but gross pain burning and misery, when I concentrated and really looked within, there was the subtle flow of vibration underneath the burning heaviness, I bounced back and forth for many days experiencing moments of subtleness and greater moments of this burning pain, then the body began to open up, like the hard crust broke apart and out poured the lava, this hurt like hell but finally the lava was moving instead of just sitting in there, little by little it cooled and by the end of the retreat I felt fantastic, I mean fantastic, I had never felt this light before it was as though a huge weight was removed.

I left the retreat and was in the bus station, I'm telling the truth here, I could look at every individuals facial expression, and I knew exactly what they were thinking, a homeless man came into my view and I could tell he was sad and lonely, I was so unbelievable happy that he just kept coming towards me, and he just started to pour out all his problems to me, and we just talked like to human beings it was beautiful, it was as if this joy just kept running out of me and anyone I came into contact with became happy.

When I got home my kids just attacked me daddy, daddy, daddy, they were clawing at me, we were hugging and kissing, it was great, then all of a sudden this feeling of incredible darkness came over me, this really thick heavy darkness, it was coming like a wave, and I knew there was no stopping it. I asked my wife to be excused to go lie down. It was as if death was approaching and like an animal who senses death approaching, it finds a quiet place to lie down, this is what I felt and instinctively I went to lie down in privacy, there was no fight in me, no resistance to this, just total surrender.

Before my head hit the pillow, I was in the body of an older man, he lived in a dusty ashram type setting, he was walking about interacting with people. Now this experience was just like any experience in my day to day life the only difference is that I was this other person, I(my identity) was in this other being. The difference was in the purity of mind, none of my normal sarcastic impure thoughts were there, whomever this person came in contact with he saw a his children there was nothing but thoughts of love and kindness, and everyone loved this person.

Suddenly, I became aware that the people in this ashram were beginning to panic, and as I turned around I saw a band of men with swords killing the residents, still no thoughts of hatred or fear arose in the mind, just a calmness, then I spoke, Oh my this is not good, then a feeling of crushing weight became apparent, but like when you are at the dentist and they freeze your mouth, no pain, just thuds and plunges, and extreme pressure. All the subtle sensations flowing through the body began to fizzle out, I knew I was going to die, A womans voice, an angelic voice, said "you will be missed so much, I love you" and this seemed to further calm the mind, the subtle sensations remaining grew even finer until they were gone.

Instantly, mind expanded, it had been released from body, there was no sense of self, this is difficult to express in words, there was none of the 5 senses active, no pain no sensation whatsoever, just mind expanding out infinitely, and in an instant, this was not a long experience, it was instantaneous, the link from body was severed and mind was free to expand freely into space.

Then it was as if mind approached a what I would describe as a black hole, mind was drawn to this point of nothingness, again no feeling perhaps merely perceiving this occurring, mind then proceeded into this point of nothing and then ......

Can't describe the next part other than no perception mere conscious awareness, no self whatsoever not a trace. This experience had no concept of time associated with it but when I woke up back in this familiar body, 45 minutes had passed.

I cannot explain it but this experience has brought an incredible amount of insight, I have no real questions anymore, just understanding, and a huge boulder of heavy self has been eliminated, I still have plenty of stuff coming up but the real heavy burning stuff has not ever returned, and I simply do not generate thoughts of ill will as I use to be capable of.

It is like being reborn, I still look the same but the identity has changed, the old me has literally died. This conscious awareness is always, Its beyond subtle, unknowable to the self, but I can simply be this awareness observing past traumas arising and passing.

Enlightened2B wrote: it doesn't sound like you really have an understanding of what out of body exploration actually is.

This was one experience there have been others, but this was definately the deepest. But I don't crave for this to happen again or try to induce these experiences, I simply work through whatever trauma presents itself as best I can from moment to moment. If a being desires to make contact, I do my best to observe this entity in a calm balanced fashion. Little by little the universe is unfolding, I have no doubts that this is the path to purification.


Enlightened2B wrote: You seem to claim to know so much about out of body exploration, past lives, and the fractal nature of reality


Not really, I just know how to work through these traumas.
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Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue May 12, 2015 3:40 am

This is fabulous Fore and I'm incredibly appreciative that you shared this with me and shared this publicly. I mean that. I'm kind of blown away by reading what you wrote. I might not see eye to eye with you on every issue, but I now can approach your posts with a new light coming from your own experience, in seeing that you are most certainly sincere and likely have a lot of wisdom to share. I'm going to read your post again a number of times because I think there's a lot of insight I can probably use for myself in my own experience. Thanks again.
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