Enlightened2B wrote: As you keep bringing up this same issue that any form of sense perception, basically indicates they are still in the body,, when I'm trying to get you to see that just perhaps, maybe there's more to understand about OBE's than you and I already do?
I watched most of the video, it was not different to what my current understanding of what these people are experiencing. Even this man being interviewed says that the term out of body(OBE) is not a good expression as you are not leaving the body but going deeper. His example leaving the skin of the apple and going in to the apple. This is exactly what I am trying to get across to you and others, it is not an out of body experience, it is simply a depth experience within samsara, you are simply experiencing subtler or heavier realms of existence. The body is still there in these higher realms it is just not that apparent it is extremely subtle but if you pay close attention a slight subtle vibration is experienced. This is not permanent this state also is in a continuous state of change, therefore it is unsatisfactory. Seeing this and not getting caught up in identification with this experience, one can let go of this experience and progress beyond this. You are not this subtle body of experience, this is not your true nature. Only when the six sense doors cease to function, you are "that" which remains, which is eternal.
The man in this video is confused, you are not separating consciousness from body with these experiences, you are simply examining the apple. This will not end suffering as long as you remain in belief that you are any part of this apple. This attachment to form must be come out of, also attachment to formless must also be come out of.
He may be using some interesting methods to bring about these experiences, but this will not end suffering, this will not lead to your true nature(peace). He even states how exciting this is and that after your first experience you want more to occur, this is craving, the root cause of self creation. He is not coming out of craving in the least. He is intensifying his desire for these experiences. This is already the habit of mind, and not something to further feed. I mean the universe is infinite, there is something new around every corner. There is no realm that will satisfy your craving for answers.
Examining the apple, looking deeply at the apple is necessary, but you must look to see that, this is not you, to break the attachment towards this form, otherwise we are simply doing Samadhi practice, there is no wisdom.
If we have a sex addiction(and everyone here does to some degree), will more sex ever satisfy this addiction. Will you ever have that perfect sexual partner that brings satisfaction? No, you won't, it is not possible. The sense doors are continually experiencing colours and sounds, and smells and sensations, and mind is continually reacting towards these. These are experienced as vibration, they are moving, they are agitated, they are ripples on the pond. How can one be at peace with this agitation, if they believe to be this agitation. Being your true nature, you are observing this agitation(misery) for what it is, you are not creating stories to identify with, you are not hoping to be something after you die, you are merely this observing presence. This observing presence can witness anything, the darkest most painful depth of hell and there is no fear, only peace and tranquility. It is like when you hurt yourself, I observe this, but feel no pain.
Enlightened2B wrote: I only pose this idea to you to open yourself up to a wider understanding perhaps.
If you want to explore the apple and see all the different realms first, go ahead. But this will not cure the anxiety you experience, it may temporarily uplift you but you will still have these lower realms accessable to you. It may be interesting perhaps, but no liberative wisdom will come from this. If you incorporate the field of wisdom, I'm certain all these mysteries will unfold naturally for you, and you will gradually come out of these anxieties. You will not crave for these experiences, you will see them for what they are(part of the veil of ignorance).
Enlightened2B wrote: I'm simply asking you to hold aside all opinions on this subject matter and to watch a link on what an OBE actually is from a guy who is one of the world's leading expert's on OBE's. But, it's not just him. Smiley Jen had a NDE and it's been described in detail on this board. Nanci Danison had one of the most profound NDE's recorded ever, and she too had much sense perception in her experience in the early stages as have Mellon Thomas Benedict, Lani Leary, Natalie Sudman, Anita Moorjani, plus the majority of other NDE's and the millions upon millions upon millions of people who have had OBE's, while they were still in the lower, dense realms. Unless you'd like to discount millions upon millions of people's experiences in near death experiences and out of body exploration, perhaps it's safer sometimes to say.....'I don't have all of the answers right now'.
These experiences are simply what they are, experiences of the sense doors, they have come and gone but we dredge them up, we can't let go of them, we are attached to them and give so much importance to them. All the time the sense doors are experiencing stuff NOW, but we don't care to look closely at this, this does not interest us. Don't nearly die, but die, experience death over and over again. Every moment observe the arising and passing of phenomenon, the birth of a new breath and then its passing. Observe death continuously. Look deeply at this continuous cycle of birth and death, its right under your nose, it's been happening from the time you were born. We want answers, and they are right there in plain view. No need to go out of body.
Enlightened2B wrote: Onceler wrote a very lovely post earlier in this thread that sometimes it's ok not to know and to simply to surrender to the idea that 'I don't have all of the answers right now'. Meaning, even in our experiences, they are just our own experiences.
They are just experiences, no need to label them or give ownership to them. They have come and gone, no need to hold on.
Enlightened2B wrote: Have a great Memorial Weekend, if you live in the States.
I'm in Canada, took Friday off and took the kids to Canada's Wonderland , rode a bat and a dragon, golfed all weekend, blissful misery. Hope you had a great long week-end also.