The Limitations of Non-duality

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The Limitations of Non-duality

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:59 pm

Came across this article and while I think the article is rather limited, due to its failure to understand the role of spirit and soul in the greater reality, I agree with the premise of why many non-duality teachings are quite limited and missing the mark by far due to its over simplification and misunderstanding of who we TRULY are.

http://anaditeaching.com/freeing-the-mind-from-the-prison-of-non-duality/
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Re: The Limitations of Non-duality

Postby Rob X » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:59 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:Came across this article and while I think the article is rather limited, due to its failure to understand the role of spirit and soul in the greater reality, I agree with the premise of why many non-duality teachings are quite limited and missing the mark by far due to its over simplification and misunderstanding of who we TRULY are.

http://anaditeaching.com/freeing-the-mind-from-the-prison-of-non-duality/


Well of course he would write this, it's obvious that he's an out and out dualist.

I'm not sure why you're on this nonduality bashing path these days E2B. Sure, there are plenty of hollow and inauthentic teachings out there but why not just ignore them?

Strictly speaking, nonduality is not a teaching or even really a philosophy. What is referred to as (true) nonduality is a realisation not an intellectual understanding. The 'penny dropping' felt-sense-recognition of our true nature (as Reality itself) is a form of paradigm shift. It's hard to explain it but when it happens it's unmistakable. If that shift hasn't occurred then representations of what a nondual sensibility is, is just hearsay and guesswork.

When this recognition has occurred you will see that it doesn't intrinsically reject anything. Be it quantum physics or witchcraft - it can all have a place so long as it's acknowledged as a relative truth. If there is a philosophy that insists that all is mind then that is idealism. If there is a philosophy that insists that all is energy then that is materialism. A truly nondual sensibility does neither - it points to the already obvious This-ness of present experience from which all appears.
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Re: The Limitations of Non-duality

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:09 am

Hey Rob.....He's not a dualist at all. Here's why:

Duality is sacred. Non-duality is the passive principle of existence; duality is the active spirit of creation, the precious force through which anything and all can exist.


He's asserting clearly that non-duality is already,what is, by calling it the 'passive principle of existence' or as some like to say the 'feminine spirit'. Non-duality is already the case. What is, simply is. He's saying that duality, on the other hand, is the reason we are here and is how and where expression takes place and is where everything actually happens and is asserting that many non-dual paths simply jump to this non-dual conclusion based on indoctrination of previous teachings, without actually embracing the inner part of ourselves to get there. Certain modern day non-duality teachings (neo-advaita) will have you believe that there is nothing BUT, non-duality, and often dismiss duality as an illusion of sorts or 'maya' (as if they've seen the grander perspective beyond the body) and completely miss the entire meaning of life itself....meaning....duality. That doesn't make him a dualist. It means, he simply sees much of the same pitfalls that I see with certain non-duality teachings. We are here for a reason and non-duality teachings refuses to touch on that.

I'm not trying to bash non-duality in general as far as a principal of BEing. I agree that what is....IS and that everything is ultimately one at the core and if that is what some call 'non-duality', well that's fine by me, because I've had the same experiences, but, I'm criticizing a portion of the (largely neo-advaita teachings), which often miss the mark by jumping to the absolute without doing any of the inner work to understand who we truly are. Embracing those dark aspects of ourself including fear is the only true way (I feel) to understanding the greatness that we actually are.

For myself personally, I've had a lot of health issues over the last 10 years and I'm only 34, and when I started down the non-dual path about two and a half years ago, I constantly searched for answers for why I was sick and how I got sick and none of these teachings could possibly provide even a glimpse of understanding because the teachings and teachers themselves missed the mark on so much on the level of cause and effect between the levels of absolute and relative ( to put it simply) because they were/are so focused on dismissing 'duality' as an illusion and getting PAST duality that they forgot why we are here in the first place which is to work WITH duality.

I emailed Greg Goode once about my crohns disease and my chronic fatigue and his response to me was that....he too had diverticulitis and that it was just another 'random' arising within consciousness. I knew at that point that this stuff was not the path for me. When I met Scott Kiloby in person and asked him the same thing, he agreed with Greg Goode. Both awesomely good guys, but both completely missing the mark on a greater understanding as so many do. Adyashanti on the other hand, is one of the few non-dual teachings who I resonate with as I think he truly grasps a greater understanding compared to other guys like Greg Goode.

In reality there is so much more going on between the lines (between Absolute and relative) which is where the true understanding of disease (physical and emotional) comes into play that can only take place with a true understanding of the workings of energy I find, in other words.....duality. Duality is where all of the work and play gets done, and where all of the interconnections takes place. It's where good and bad happens. Non-duality is simply the roof for it all. A house is nothing without a roof and a roof is nothing without a house. If you focus too much on the roof that encloses the house, then you miss the beauty and purpose of what the house offers. Our job incarnate is to BE as much as we can that -non-duality' while also embracing the separation world of duality.

With that said, everything is seemingly evolving towards Oneness one way or another on Earth and beyond Earth.

Thanks for the response.
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Re: The Limitations of Non-duality

Postby Rob X » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:51 pm

Well I don't want to get into the merits or faults of this article or author, but it is clear to me that he is proposing an outlook that amounts to dualism.

Okay, there are a couple of things that spring to mind here.

1. Nondualism (with a small 'd') simply means not-two or not multiple. This sense/understanding points to the fact that even now as you read this there is only a 'singularity' (for want of a word) at play. There is not Source and a me or Spirit and a me or God and a me - there is simply Spirit/God/Reality at play. When we hear a term like 'separation', it simply refers to a sense of separation from the cosmos/Source/Reality etc. But the thing is, no one has ever experienced separation - they experience a sense of separation. To experience separation would entail actually being separate from Source/Reality/God. Yet nothing is or ever was separate from, independent of, other than, an expression, effect or product of Source.

What we experience is a sense of separation - and this delusion occurs because Reality presents as individuation, variation and differentiation at every turn. Reinforced by our conditioning, thought and language from a very early age, we mistake this seamless presentation of differentiation for a collection of fixed, enduring, independent objects. But there are no such self-existing things. If we pay special (present) attention we might grasp that there is simply this… and now this…. expressing and modulating as the apparently separate forms of experience.

I do get your point about some forms of neo-advaita. If that's where your criticism lies, I have no disagreement with that.

2. It's funny that you mention Greg Goode, I too had correspondence with him about ten years ago. You're right, he's a good guy, but his insistence on metaphysical idealism was ultimately off-putting for me.

But something he said to me really stuck. He said (something along these lines) that phenomenal problems require phenomenal solutions. By this he means that looking to spiritual teachings to cure phenomenal problems can never be ultimately successful. I agree. Spiritual insights can change our relationship to our problems but in most cases a phenomenal solution is the best course to take - for instance if you have a deep psychological issue then there is no harm going to see a therapist - it would be an error to cling to the hope that some notion of enlightenment might just make all your problems dissolve.

Like yourself I have health issues (I'm sure that everyone here has phenomenal issues of some kind - and if you don't right now, you will.) It's the way the life of the organism has progressed - mainly genetic with some lifestyle factors of the past contributing. That's just how things are - I do what I can to deal with it but understand that it's the play of nature taking its course. I don't see that there has to be a 'why' in this.

Apart from the projects that we involve ourselves in, I don't see that humans have a purpose any more than dogs or cats do (I don't actually think that we are any more special than them - just more complex, creative and devious ;).) If there is a purpose or meaning to existence I suspect that it's at a level far deeper than we can currently understand.

Despite our obvious differences over certain issues I sense your genuineness and it's always nice to chat with you.
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Re: The Limitations of Non-duality

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:29 pm

I don't disagree with your premise of non-duality. I would agree that it's our own thinking which creates more separation and even more so, beliefs. I think that's where most of us, if not all, share the same experiences in agreement.

But, where I differ from you and possibly others, is that I believe there is very much a purpose here and each of us has the power to claim that purpose if we tap into our intuition, which in itself has been difficult for me all of my life.

Physical illness is not separate too, from the energetic constructs of our nature. Meaning, chronic illness often (not always) stems from an energetic place primarily and manifests in the body physically and that can be healed through a combination of spiritual and physical healing including DNA activation on an energetic level (dealing with beliefs). Treating something strictly as a physical ailment is also believe it or not, creating more separation.

You're right in that spiritual teachings like non-duality are not meant as a cure for disease and I should not find fault with them in creating expectations pertaining to them. And again, it's not the essence of non-duality itself that I have an issue with, but I feel non-duality itself, or the Self realization is merely a stepping stone to something greater that we are here for in the form of expression and creation. Personally, that's why I find some of the actual teachings, such as neo-advaita and such somewhat limiting. Not just for healing purposes, but even other spiritual teachings which incorporate non-duality as the premise, bring us more into power of what we are capable of, by expanding further including Abraham Hicks, energy healing, non physical experiences, Quantum healing, etc combined with an understanding of Self, really incorporate a lot more in a clearer picture of who we are, why we are here, and how to incorporate true healing.

It's like yes....non-duality is already the essence of reality, but now what? Some will have you believe that's all there is to it and I disagree. Everything builds upon that essence of non-duality including our personal growth.

And yes, even though we might differ on certain things, and it's expected, I feel all of us still have the same focal point of understanding that who we really are is not in any concept alone.

Thanks Rob... :D
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Re: The Limitations of Non-duality

Postby Rob X » Wed Sep 23, 2015 11:16 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:And yes, even though we might differ on certain things, and it's expected, I feel all of us still have the same focal point of understanding that who we really are is not in any concept alone.


I reckon that'll do to put this to bed (at least for now ) :D

Cheers E2B.
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