Non-Duality

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Non-Duality

Postby heidi » Fri Dec 03, 2004 7:59 pm

There doesn't seem to be an author, but this is an interesting Q&A interview.
http://www.nonduality.info/

and some good links.
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Postby DavidK » Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:54 pm

Hi Heidi,
Thank you for posting that link. I've now read the whole interview and it has been very helpful!
-Dave
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Postby phil » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:44 pm

Yes, good stuff, thanks Heidi.

The legal bit was interesting. Talk about taking one's mind and writings seriously...

Gotta run, have to go work up a legal disclaimer for the squirrel cage! :-)
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Postby heidi » Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:50 pm

That disclaimer is new. Obviously someone took them too seriously. :lol:
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Postby summer » Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:22 pm

What an interesting article and website.

Somehow I ended up on Leo Hartong's website. His name is new to me. He is the author of "Awakening to the Dream"

Here is a link to an interview with him.

http://www.awakeningtothedream.com/inte ... go-01.html
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Postby phil » Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:22 am

Heidi, another thanks, this is indeed an interesting article. Printing it out.

This is trivial compared to the subject of the article, but here's a weird detail.

See all that white space at the top and bottom of page? Whoever put this together is engaging in a primitive webmastering technique called "keyword stuffing" which is designed to obtain search engine traffic, at the expense of those who don't employ such techniques.

At this point in search engine history it's most likely counter productive, but at one time this was considered clever.

Anyway, this is a relatively minor sin in the scheme of Net manners, not a big calamity, but still it's interesting that someone in the mindset of the article would also be in the mindset of keyword stuffing.

Again, it doesn't matter, the article is useful or not on it's own merits. The webmaster in me just couldn't help notice that detail.
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Postby phil » Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:55 am

Question for those of you who read the article:

Would you consider this the same teaching as offered by Tolle, just a different way to say it?

It reads that way to me, but you likely know Tolle better than I, and I was interested in your perspective.
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Postby spatialbean » Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:32 am

Thank you for those two links Heidi, very helpful indeed.
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Postby phil » Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:42 pm

I converted the page Heidi referrred to in to a PDF for easier printing.

It's 100+ pages on my printer, too many pages to read online for me.

If anybody wants the PDF, just let me know.
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Postby DavidK » Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:41 pm

Thanks for doing that Phil.

I suffered through reading it in 3 sessions online and gave myself a headache twice. I'd love a copy of the pdf to print and then go at it with my highlighter. :D

-Dave
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Postby summer » Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:01 pm

This is such a great article. It reallys says it all, huh?

This part seems very important. And also it refers to Eckhart, so I thought that I would quote it here. It would make for an interesting discussion.

Q: Is it possible to be awakened yet still be swayed by the appearances?

A: Yes. Because even though someone has realised that the appearances are puppets, they may be valuing them more than the Awareness, so therefore the appearances are still holding sway.

Abidance as the Awareness must be made the TOP PRIORITY, all else comes a distant second. This is a very important point because people will become awakened... but then once this awakening has occurred the top priority must be to abide as the Awareness of the appearances, otherwise there will be a continued slipping back into being 'lost' in the thoughts.

Some non-dualists will say that this doesn't matter because whether you're awake or misidentifying with the appearances you can never not be in IT, BUT, to slip back into misidentification with the appearances after the initial awakening has occurred is the same as waking up to the fact that you have a billion dollars in the bank, but then you keep forgetting again. Yes, sure, you've ALWAYS got the billion dollars in the bank but what's the use if you keep forgetting? That's why, after the initial awakening, making 'abidance as the Awareness' the top priority, above any external priorities, will allow your life to be lived in the truth, moment by moment.

By abiding as the Awareness... the thoughts, emotions, actions, re-actions will continuosly be known to not be you.

It's an INSTANT BY INSTANT thing.... THAT'S WHERE THE CONTROL IS. Stay present INSTANT BY INSTANT and you will always be present.

But equally, when you slip back into being lost in the thoughts, it's not a big deal, just resume your abidance as the Awareness.

Q: So there needs to be a re-adjustment of the priorities? The inner state becomes much more important than the outer?

A: Yes. Abiding as the awareness becomes the top priority. Whatever you are doing externally takes second place. Eckhart Tolle goes into all of this with wonderful insight and detail in his latest book 'A New Earth'. It's a great book.

Q: So it's all about priorities?

A: Yes. The top priority is to enable abidance as the Awareness to flow in whatever you do, whatever the outside goal, it is always secondary.

But please DO NOT understand this to mean that you just sit there and physically do nothing but abide as the Awareness. It's all about acting in the world, yet keeping abidance as the top priority. In this way your whole life is lived consciously, awake... not trapped in a misidentification with the temporary dream.

It's a TOTAL FLIP on the way that the average person lives their life.

In this way even standing in the queue at the supermarket can be used to further consolidate the abidance as the Awareness and therefore it goes from being a tedious experience to an action which is infused with an awake presence, full of life in the present moment... fully awake and connected to the source. That's what true success is!

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Postby phil » Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:07 pm

Will do Dave, check your PM.

Could we boil the 100 pages down to something like this?

Change:

"I am thought."

To:

"I am what perceives thought."

And a chief technique being, returning our focus continually to now?

That's my take, what's yours?

I'd be interested in how many different ways we might be able to make the core point in as simple as possible bite-size language.
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Postby summer » Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:10 pm

"I am what perceives thought."



This is still a dualistic thought. Still identified with an "I" who puts his/her attention on awareness. This is still the "thinking mechanism' chattering.
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Postby phil » Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:44 pm

OK good, keep it coming. What words do you prefer for stating the core message?

Also, is there an interest in discussing methods for weakening the I identity that are less at the heart of the matter, but perhaps more easily understood?

As example, we can observe that we inherited our bodies from others who came before, thus it's kinda goofy to have shame or pride (I identity) about how we look, as we (the me) had nothing to do with it. Less I identity with our body.

I like to reflect on how much my personality mirrors that of my Dad. It tends to weaken the seriousness with which I take my personality when I reflect on how little I had to do with that either. Less I identity with our personality.

Another game is to identity the original source of various thoughts. I'll be typing up some um, brilliant insight of um, mine, and then I'll reflect, "Ah, stole that one from Krishnamurti." Less I identity with our ideas.

None of these kind of observations reach for the heart of the matter as well as the teachings we've been discussing.

But perhaps enquiry along these lines is more accessible, and thus has some limited practical value for a greater number of folks?

If you agree, what's your favorite ways of escaping the I?
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Postby DavidK » Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:45 pm

phil wrote:Will do Dave, check your PM.

Could we boil the 100 pages down to something like this?

Change:

"I am thought."

To:

"I am what perceives thought."

And a chief technique being, returning our focus continually to now?

That's my take, what's yours?

I'd be interested in how many different ways we might be able to make the core point in as simple as possible bite-size language.


Thanks for the PDF.

As for your plan.. I'll tell you. Right now my mind is pretty boggled between reading that page and listening to Tony Parsons and ET constantly on my i-pod and reading Sri Nisargadatta before dropping off to sleep. (not to mention hanging out here with you all!)

Every boiled down nutshell loses it's sense of accuracy for me very quickly. (by the way, do your squirrels enjoy boiled nutshells?)

In my limited ego's opinion, both sentences make some sense. Neither completely does it for me. I like what they kept saying about every perception being downstream of your true SELF. So I've been looking at anything and everything I perceive as not the true SELF. My true SELF lies further back upstream. That has been helpful. It keeps me stepping back and back and back from every thought or perception that arises.

As for the technique you suggested. I would guess that it is good. It's what I have been trying to do since I began reading ET.

After listening to Tony Parsons, though. I've been thinking about his statement that trying to abide in the Now implies that there is such a thing as time.

He seems to say that not only is there no Past or Future, there's no Now either.

On the surface, that may not seem to be a particularly useful statement. Just playing with semantics.

However, lately it seems that every statement I read, that knocks me off my block of thinking that I partially grasp all this, pushes me into a frustrating sort of confusion. In this state of chasing my tail (keeping the squirrels in the picture), I've started to get weird feelings, like something is happening.

Where as before, I would reflexively back off when the confusion would make my head hurt. Now I'm trying to stick with my train of thought despite the rising uncomfortable feeling. Last night I was doing this in bed before going to sleep and I began feeling strange waves of peace and excitement, and fear, and joy wash through me. The waves would rise and fall. I intuitively felt like I was getting close to something and I was both excited and afraid.

At some point I guess I just fell asleep.

So for me, right now, my practice is to pull back back back further upstream from anything, ANYTHING, in my awareness and try to abide in that "place".

It's doing something. What that is, I'm not sure... :shock:

Namaste!
:D

Dave

P.S My mantra for today "Eye-Am upstream of this."
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