Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

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Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby Elle » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:17 am

I gained much clarity from this, it is a bit long but worth the length...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fKdOvsyKqE&feature=related
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby Pako Chubi » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:50 pm

Yes, it's brilliant, thanks :D
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby ashley72 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:41 pm

Elle,

That Mooji video has so many wonderful and beautiful pointers for the seeker. Watching the whole 26 mins can be of great benefit. :D

His pointers remind me of the ocean analogy. Where the surface of the ocean (waves) are the superimposing of thoughts, feelings, sensations, perceptions, memories over the space of now... The space of now is the deep silent and unmoving ocean!

The seeker only notices the surface waves... The mental labelling which occurs in the space of now. Once the seeker starts to dive below the mental labelling... Silence and peace is noticed more and more as the surface waves no longer become the focus. Eventually the surface of the ocean becomes calm and the seeker disappears. This is the direct knowledge which shatters the illusion of the seeker, thinker & doer.

Thankyou the video was incredibly enlightening!
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby snowheight » Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:54 am

Elle. Wow. Yeah. Thanks for that.

He actually throws down these profound breadcrumbs of implied practice/non-practice for the thinking mind even as he points directly to the fallacy and futility of the conventional individual.

If I told you what it takes to reach the highest high, You'd laugh and say 'nothing's that simple'. But you've been told many times before, Messiahs pointed to the door ... And no one had the guts to leave the temple!

...
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby ashley72 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:39 am

snowheight wrote:He actually throws down these profound breadcrumbs of implied practice/non-practice for the thinking mind even as he points directly to the fallacy and futility of the conventional individual.


"The thing we tell of.... can never be found by seeking, yet only the seeker finds it" - Bayazid Bastami - Sufi Mystic
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby snowheight » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:44 pm

ashley72 wrote:"The thing we tell of.... can never be found by seeking, yet only the seeker finds it" - Bayazid Bastami - Sufi Mystic


Ashley friend, you do know so well that key to my heart.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby goldieflower » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:24 pm

"Who" is seeking? :)

Whomever, here are some inquiry pointers from Mooji.


http://mooji.org/dialogues_inquiryseries.html
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby ashley72 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:54 am

goldieflower wrote:"Who" is seeking? :)

Whomever, here are some inquiry pointers from Mooji.


http://mooji.org/dialogues_inquiryseries.html


Goldieflower,

I really like this part of the inquiry...

"That's like space having mistakenly identified itself as wind, and then realising it is not wind, but that in which wind moves - and then asking: "I see now, I am space only and not wind, how can I remain as space when the wind comes again?"

I hadn't heard this analogy before but wind is a great way to describe the spontaneously arising, thoughts, feelings, sensations which come and go. If you identify with the wind you would be like the wind. If you identify with the space... You will be like the space... :D
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby lookandlisten » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:59 am

Hey Guys,

Could anybody open my mind to what Mooji means by "watching the sense 'I', without thought"? Or how to practice this? Referencing Mooji's words at the base of my post.

I find it easy to settle into being, accompanied with a sense of peace, calmness and openness.Thoughts can arise, mostly memories and I am unsure about how to go about inquiring into these memories.

Any guidance would be greatly recieved and appreciated.

Love and light,

Mike


"So the point here is: remain in the sense 'I am the witness,' but don't give any image or identity to this witnessing sense. Watch the sense 'I,' without thought. 'Feel' it out.

Stay with fixing the attention on this. Do not be hurried or put off the 'scent' of the 'I' by any distracting thought. Gradually, any personal quality attaching itself to the 'I' will begin falling away, leaving only the intuitive and imageless sense 'I am,' without the intrusion of the thought-current. Remain in this as this. Don't form any conclusion in mind. Stay as open, neutral non-objective awareness"
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby Sighclone » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:33 am

Welcome, lookandlisten.

inquiring into these memories.


Why do you care about the memories? They are usually memories of the separate self, the "I."

But if you choose to dwell on one, just let it surface...it will likely have some heaviness or physical tension about it...having to do with conditioning and/or failure of some kind. After his awakenings, Adya would be fascinated with old "stuff" that would arise. Essentially he would just sit there with the memory and let it thrash around -- remaining as the silent witness, not attaching to it. Same thing works for unwanted feelings as they accompany memories. Invite them "in" to dissipate. All thoughts arrive and then vanish.

Even the awakened person has a screen on which thoughts appear (or perhaps better said, "is a screen...") The frequency of arising thoughts declines over time, as does their 'stickiness,' or ability to put awareness into a "trance."

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby randomguy » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:11 am

lookandlisten wrote:I am unsure about how to go about inquiring into these memories.
"So the point here is: remain in the sense 'I am the witness,' but don't give any image or identity to this witnessing sense. Watch the sense 'I,' without thought. 'Feel' it out...

He is saying to find the sense of being, the recognition of existence that preceeds what is thought. For example, when no thoughts occur, what are you? Is there a felt sense of being and is it independent of the thoughts that come and go? What is this existence? Can it really be known?
If existence is thought to be known, doesn't that too come and go and what sees this coming and going of the thoughts that are known? Another Mooji type question; what is that that sees and can that itself be seen and is that anything knowable?

When he says not to give any image or identity to the witnessing sense, consider for a moment what that experience is of being 'unsure about how to go about inquiring'. Who is it that thinks he is unsure? What identity has formed here and what is the nature of this identity? Does the witnessing exist and continue without this identity? Does awareness preceed this identity? Does existence go on with or without knowing anything? Is the sense of 'I am' felt and known without thought or understanding? To what is it felt and known? What experienes and witnesses experience? Could what you think you are in any possibility have created this existence? Is it possible to just see how it is when it is all just let alone to be as it is with no identity and no thought beleived or entertained? Can this be allowed, now by just staying with the very simplest recognition of being?

When he says the "I" will fall away, does he mean the I that is thought to be, or the sense of "I am" that always is? What sees? When he says, "Stay as open, neutral non-objective awareness" is there awareness now, is it open and neutral and does it exists this way when thoughts are simply left alone to come and go as they please?

Here is a similar question, is existence seen as it is or how it is thought to be? This sense of "I" that is unsure of how to inquire, is it thought to be, is it an experience founded upon thought? Can the witnessing of this experience of unsureness be recognized and the thoughts just left to do as they may and the world left to be as it is, the entire me-universe landscape left to unfold as it may as seen from the open, unbiased, unchanging awareness with the sense and story of "me" left entirely alone as something fairly uninteresting?
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby Sighclone » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:46 am

Aw c'mon random, we want answers, not hard questions!!

Which is, of course a compliment about your fine post -- thanks very much. The problem with questions (and I ask them all the time) is that they trigger the mind to grind away. All of your questions address the "I-thought." For many people, even the concept that "I" might be a thought is radical...let alone how to deal with memories, this ghostly "witness place," and Mooji's big question "Can you, the Perceiver, be seen?" -- these are all wonderful food for the mind.

But, of course, the mind cannot answer them. Which is why your post is so special. Full of unanswerable questions. The brain just starts to hurt. Maybe it will go away long enough for me to wake up :mrgreen: Because I am not going to wake up answering all these questions!!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby Pako Chubi » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:30 am

For me there's not much to discuss about Mooji's statements, along I don't know if I got them completely, but something yes, some sense of I.
But this path is so small, so little, that it brings almost nothing to talk about... Ego and suffering and ilussion instead bring lots of things to talk about and discuss. Also joy and peace and love bring thoughts and words... Becouse that are experiencies, so we can conceptualize them...
but this path, awakening, is almost invisible, almost nothing... Well, it is nothing
How to find it, how to find that path, that consciousness? Maybe not seeking for nothing bigger than nothing
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby ashley72 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:03 am

In this Eckhart Tolle video he says something along the lines..... Being.....your true state, the present moment, Enlightenment is always permanently here. You don't need to "do" anything to reach it... Your always here you just need to realize it... By energizing deeply into the now.

So yes Enlightenment is permanent for everyone all the time, it never can't be the case.... It the same as saying the present moment is permanent.... Or the space of Now is permanent.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgO4UDrwm8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Re: Is Enlightenment Permanent?... Mooji

Postby snowheight » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:43 pm

ashley72 wrote:So yes Enlightenment is permanent for everyone all the time, it never can't be the case.... It the same as saying the present moment is permanent.... Or the space of Now is permanent.


Everhthing has Bhudda nature.

All is Brahman.

Not a sparrow falls.

Submission.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.
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