Mindfulness... looking for a way out

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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby merlin41 » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:00 pm

Hi emcconnell
I hear what you are saying, and I have been in your position for a large part of my life, and for me the only way out of my mind completely running my life with its constant barrage of thoughts, and rationalisation of all my life experiences, was a tragedy (a death) I am not wishing that on you, god forbid, but I sense that some breaking down of your mind may be the only solution in the end, as it was with me, after some 50 odd years of therapy and life experiences.

I don't feel any of the suggestions that have been made or possibly will be made here will get past the intense grip of your mind. I feel that rideforever's repeated "accept accept accept" in his signature is the only way for you. You have to accept there is no answer to be found in the minds on this forum, or anywhere else outside of you for that matter. I sense that possibly the only way for you to breakthrough is to breakdown. In other words sit with the constant flow of thoughts accepting them and allowing your journey to unfold, which it will, it always does.

I have no wish to be harsh or dismissive, I do feel great compassion for you but that is my heartfelt take on the situation

Namaste

Terry
“I would like my life to be a statement of love and compassion--and where it isn't, that's where my work lies.”
― Ram Dass
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby emcconnell » Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:16 pm

I hear what you are saying, and I have been in your position for a large part of my life, and for me the only way out of my mind completely running my life with its constant barrage of thoughts, and rationalisation of all my life experiences, was a tragedy (a death) I am not wishing that on you, god forbid, but I sense that some breaking down of your mind may be the only solution in the end, as it was with me, after some 50 odd years of therapy and life experiences.

I don't feel any of the suggestions that have been made or possibly will be made here will get past the intense grip of your mind. I feel that rideforever's repeated "accept accept accept" in his signature is the only way for you. You have to accept there is no answer to be found in the minds on this forum, or anywhere else outside of you for that matter. I sense that possibly the only way for you to breakthrough is to breakdown. In other words sit with the constant flow of thoughts accepting them and allowing your journey to unfold, which it will, it always does.

I have no wish to be harsh or dismissive, I do feel great compassion for you but that is my heartfelt take on the situation


My mimd has (quite literally) "broken down" a number of times over the years. Trying to avoid another one is a motivating factor for all of this.
The last "breaking down" about three years ago with the death of my father (the well spring of much of this angst).

As I have stated in previous post the "sitting with the constant flow of thoughts and accepting them" gives them more strength. It is this very process that I now find myself "looking for a way out" of
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby rideforever » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:00 pm

You are a very curious character. And I am sensing that your whole approach is underlined with untruth.

We are on Page 7 of this thread. You keep telling us how terrible things are and nothing will ever change. Anytime anyone suggests something you say it is no good.

You are enjoying it. Somewhere inside, you are really enjoying this ... situation.

Really you reveal very little when you post. If someone suggests something you throw it into the "won't work bin", without any explanation, clarification ... without any real reflection or analysis.

It's a game.

But occasionally something slips out, whether you like it or not.

When you talk about your external situation you say :
But I have no control over the actions/reactions of others I can not change these.


... really ? Why are you talking in terms of "controlling" others ? Hmmm ...

So, inside you have a trait of wanting to control others.
Is that what you are doing here ? You have a large audience, and as long as you never accept help, the audience will grow and grow.

Or this :
I accept my situation (I don't have to like it but I do accept it) and I can not change it.

If you don't like it ... then you aren't accepting it.

... and you say you can't change it ... well that's just a belief that you are enjoying.

You aren't accepting anything, you aren't noticing anything ... because you have secret enjoyment of your suffering.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby rachMiel » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:34 pm

emcconnell wrote:
You're making it too complicated. (I speak from experience!)
Who (or what) is reading these words now? Who/what is interpreting them, forming associations with them, perhaps experiencing emotions from them? Who/what is deciding to respond or not respond?
I am.
Simplify! Go with the subjective feeling, intellectual analysis is in this case not invited to the party.


I am reading these words with my mind it has learned the alphabet and how to string the letters together to form words (and those words in to sentences).
My mind is interpreting these sentences and forming associations with other words and events that I have experienced. I am deciding to respond with words and thoughts that I have experienced throughout life.
There is no subjective feeling, intellectual analysis is throwing the party. I do not understand how there can be any interpretations or associations without intellectual analysis.
To me THIS is simple.

Well, there ya go: Your intellect has taken over. It's like a switch that's stuck on ON. Sounds unpleasant!
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby emcconnell » Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:56 pm

"And I am sensing that your whole approach is underlined with untruth".

What is the untruth? It is my truth, I am sorry if it is not yours.

"We are on Page 7 of this thread. You keep telling us how terrible things are and nothing will ever change. Anytime anyone suggests something you say it is no good.
You are enjoying it. Somewhere inside, you are really enjoying this ... situation"

I'm on 52 years of this thread.
I have NEVER stated that nothing will ever change. If that is your understanding of this I accept that.
This all seems to be getting under your skin a little bit. Not my intentions I assure you, but perhaps you should take a look at that.

Perhaps it's just that all of the suggestions that have been made have already been explored. I have never said that they are "no good". Again your interpretation, not mine. Why would I have tried them if I though they were no good? Why would I continue to try them? I'm not that crazy.

Enjoying this? Really? That's your take on this... I'm having fun!
Do you honestly believe that or is this just your frustration arising form that fact that I just don't get this. I understand that this is my interpretation of your reply. But I don't KNOW it to be true the way thay you apparently KNOW that I am enjoying this. Get frustrated all you want, but the tone of your reply is very angry and accusatory. Enlightened indeed.

"Really you reveal very little when you post. If someone suggests something you throw it into the "won't work bin", without any explanation, clarification ... without any real reflection or analysis"

What exactly is it that you think I have not revealed?
I have not thrown anything into the "won't work bin" without explanation or clarification.
I have explained how either: 1. I have tried the suggested methods or 2. I just don't understand them and have never been able to achieve the results that I believe they offer.


"It's a game"
Again, your interpretation, your truth not mine. And quite frankly it's rather insulting.
You throw this out there as if you KNOW it to be true, when you most certainly do not.
Thank you for calling this a game. I have a VERY difficult time even talking about these types of issues with anyone. Mainly because of the fear that I have that my thoughts/opinions/emotions will be dismissed. It's very painful for me when the-y are dismissed. So thank you for dismissing all of this as "a game". Just reinforces the old belief that I should never open up to any one or ask for help because it will be dismissed as foolish. Perhaps you should choose your words a little more carefully in the future. Sorry I'm not as enlightened as you... to me THIS hurts.

"But occasionally something slips out, whether you like it or not.
When you talk about your external situation you say :
But I have no control over the actions/reactions of others I can not change these.
... really ? Why are you talking in terms of "controlling" others ? Hmmm ..."

Hmmmm, taken totally out of context to further fortify your illusionary interpretation of me.
I was simply trying to explain the fact that I have no control over the outside forces in my life, and that the only things that I can control are the ways in which I deal with them.
This statement was not something sinister slipping out about controlling people. Don't know how you ended up thinking that.

"So, inside you have a trait of wanting to control others."
REALLY this is what you have arrived at. Are you actually serious about this?
Exactly where along the way did you discover that you have this ability to understand others and judge their intentions.
Can you do this when you first meet then, do they even need to speak?
Is this your "true self" or an illusionary figment of your mind.

"Or this :
I accept my situation (I don't have to like it but I do accept it) and I can not change it.
If you don't like it ... then you aren't accepting it."

What? I, unlike you, can actually accept something without having to like it.
Mind blowing to you perhaps, but maybe this ability actually exists outside of your narrow perspective.


"... and you say you can't change it ... well that's just a belief that you are enjoying."
When have I said that "I can't change" I said that I can not change the outside forces in my life, BIG difference! You might have picked up on that if you'd actually read what I was saying and not read what YOU perceived me to be saying. Whey the hell would I be trying so hard TO change.
Have you actually read any of these post or just skimmed through the picking out the imaginary pieces that help you rationalize your opinion of me?

"You aren't accepting anything, you aren't noticing anything ... because you have secret enjoyment of your suffering"

Where does this come from? If this is the perspective that one can achieve with a so called "enlightened mind" then you can keep it.
Enjoyment in my suffering, Oh yeah I revel in it on a daily basis. You know nothing of me or my struggles, but you assume THIS as your truth.
WOW, just plain WOW!

"You aren't looking for anything. You enjoy where you are."
You might as well carve this in stone as an absolute truth, because this is the THIRD time you have told me that I am ENJOYING this.
I assure you I am not, nor have I ever enjoyed this. Perhaps you should really look at these "mind based" illusionary opinions that you have. Maybe that would be a good start for you.



"Noticing that ... would be a good start."
Notice some things about yourself, I don't know what your "inner self" is like, but I'm not really digging your outer self right now.
You may be all enlightened and happy on the inside but on the outside... not so much.

Perhaps this forum "just isn't for me".
I honestly came here looking for some direction and perhaps some insight into all of this and I would like to thank most of the members for their suggestions and opinions.
Thank you for caring and taking the time to reply. I mean that whole heartedly.

Sorry "rideforever" this does not apply to you.
Might be a good idea to remember in the "future" that not everyone is as "enlightened" or "aware" as you, and that your word DO hurt and they are taken personally.

Good by
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby Sighclone » Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:01 am

Ed –

I have read every post in this thread. Please do not give up on rideforever – yes, his last post was provocative and harsh, perhaps wrong and cruel. But many of his earlier posts were heartfelt and dedicated. This one is just another tack. Not one I happen to agree with, in style, but I do understand his intent which is to say to you that your ego has an element of “poor me” going on.
I say “an element” with intention. Your egoic identity is far more complex than that; it is also in complete control. We know that because of the persistent suffering. When egos control, suffering happens. I do hear that you are here (and in 15 years of therapy, all the other techniques, etc.) to relieve that suffering. One theme in the Story of Ed is “nobody and nothing can really help me...now here I am in this mature forum with many sensitive caring folks who have thrown many hours into helping me, and YAY, no help yet...WHOOPEE...I am still the Boss.” You are not the first one to arrive here with this theme. It is a very familiar place for you, and therefore, despite being a damned miserable place, it is your comfort zone, fully supported by all the compulsive thinking.

But beyond the mind I find nothing

Actually this is a good start. Because nothing is another word for Emptiness. What you haven’t found, (or if you have found it for a microsecond, your hyperactive monkey mind has co-opted that tiny instant of true relief into some kind of negatively-twisted thought) is more than a second or two of real peace. (This is an assertion you have made repeatedly here.) This is a hunch, but I think your egoic identity (“False self created by unconscious identification with the mind” – ET) is, of course, very threatened by this. But Emptiness is really the absence of thought. It is Pure Awareness, and it is very easily hijacked by the mind. (Adyashanti calls it a ‘trance.’) By the way, don’t forget to forgive yourself for having this dysfunctional egoic identity...you sure as hell did not create it for the fun of it!!

So keep finding nothing. Whatever technique allows you to “find nothing,” do that several times a day.

Which brings me to my first main suggestion: Find a meditation technique which uses a mantra to be repeated. This is a very organic way of using the mind to still itself. In his book “The Joy of Living,” Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche suggests OM AH HUNG – this is about 2/3 of the way through that otherwise wonderful book. There are many other mantra techniques – I recommend you get some training in one of them. And use it periodically through the day...yes I heard that your days are way too full. Find a way to change that. (And yes The Story of Ed will resist any change to that.)

Facts are not the same for everyone because everyone has not had the exact same set of life experiences. The lenses are formed by our life experiences and will always be our lenses. You can pretend that they are not there but they are you just don't realize it or you've convinced yourself that they are not there. You can not un-ring a bell.


This is pure ego in control speaking directly. It is a deeply held belief, but it is true only for an egoic identity...which you both are and aren’t. When you think of you as Ed, you are identifying with and as your egoic self. Hey, we all have these things. (David Carse in his fine book “Perfect Brilliant Stillness,” calls it “this David thing.”) When you experience Stillness, Presence and Unity (all inadequate words, of course) you will not be experiencing a “separate inside self.” And it will be more real and immediate than any “virtual self” the ego can construct. Which is why another word is Awakening.

We also like Candace O’Denver’s site, greatfreedom.org for simple techniques.

Separate and acting on its own, a separate entity? In no way shape or form do I believe this. It IS me. There is no separate being.

Pure ego in full song. Yes, you have a “body-mind-personality” known as Ed. No denial. However, that is not the “real you.” And for you to set Ed down, even for a tiny bit of time is very scary. This suggests that you probably had some very early trauma...and constructed an identity to cope with that deep level fear. (Yes, I heard that the therapy was a disaster...I know of several therapists who are familiar with nonduality both personally and professionally – PM me for more on that, some work by Skype.)

And I was seeing more clearly before I started on the path of mindfulness, but now there is no way back.


I interpret this as the egoic identity Ed being very threatened. Please describe the “Seeing more clearly” condition that is now worse. Was there less suffering in the “Seeing more clearly” place?

to stop compulsive thinking.

Nah – let it be. Attempting to force a “stop order” on thinking (compulsive, random, whatever) is like opening your eye and telling it to “not see.” It is simply what the mind does. And even after Awakening, thoughts will continue to arise as needed. And get verbalized or written down, etc. Breathing happens, heart-beating happens, sweating happens, thinking happens.

but I find nothing there.(For me) there is nothing beyond physical form and thought.

OK. But you have been reading that maybe that is a false belief, because some other folks out there appear to be having a different experience and, as a result of their experiences, have discovered more than ‘physical form and thought.’ And you sure as hell hope they are right, because your current and persistent physical form and thought[s] ain’t all that much fun.


Work (generally 6 days a week 55 - 60 hours)
Family (a two year old daughter) who I get to spend precious little time with because of my work schedule. A marriage that I am hoping to salvage. An elderly parent that needs assistance.
This does not leave a lot of time in my daily schedule to take off for a few days to work on "me".
This does not really leave much time for "me". Period.


If that is true, then you are being a very good boy. Taking care of everybody else. Problem is, you are not sharpening the saw. And there will not be a good little boy around for very long (did you quit smoking?) unless you find some time for yourself. You have managed to find a few hours to type these posts...which so far have mostly reinforced the earlier theme “Alas and alack, nobody can help poor me, my disorder is greater than all the helpers in the world...it is, frankly, the Greatest Disorder Of All Time. There I am, the wondrous Me...Larger in My Disorder than all forms of relief.” As I say, Ed, I’ve seen this one before – it’s kind of a reverse snobbery of the super tough Little Me. And so far, it’s been very content. It would actually be funny if it didn’t drag along excruciating misery as an anchor and keystone. “See...I’m still caught up in all this tail-chasing thinking...and still miserable.” And I do hear that you have not, since infancy, had an experience which would suggest that maybe the source of this grindingly sad identity is the mental fiction of egoic Impossibly Miserable Ed. And that primitive memory is so foggy and buried that it cannot bring any solace. I have great compassion for you. Again, please PM me if you like.

Separate and acting on its own, a separate entity? In no way shape or form do I believe this. It IS me. There is no separate being.


Of course this is your experience to date.

I have never been able to understand how "the answer doesn't exist in thinking". How can you find an "answer" without thinking? Without thinking there is no question so how can there be an answer? How do you understand the question... by thinking, by evaluating these thoughts against past experience and reaching a conclusion.


Awakening is nonmental. Actually it is transmental. And until you get a glimpse of it, that whole concept “nonmental” will bring you up cold. The mind can stand down, and still be fully functional when needed. You have no reason to believe that, Ed, so have to take it on faith. But there is a glimmer of faith in you or you would have given up years ago. Grace happens, Ed. You have probably seen it happen to friends.

You might try contacting Dr. Roland Griffiths at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. He is experimenting in a sanctioned program with psilocybin to trigger a shift in the “default mode network,’ in the brain. It appears to work so far. The “autobiographical thinking mode” is the normal default mode network, which involves certain areas of the brain. But long-time Theravadan Buddhist meditators have a completely different network of neural activity as a default mode. Gary Weber’s blog touches on this and many other fascinating areas:
http://happinessbeyondthought.blogspot. ... ng-no.html

Hope we didn’t lose you with one confrontational post...

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby Onceler » Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:44 pm

Great response, Sighclone. Rideforever was using a stick to jar something loose, and from the response, maybe he did. Your follow up is well considered and compassionate. I know the forum wishes Ed well, but it's an interesting dilemma for our egos.....what happens when we are not helpful, heard? It's hard to let someone suffer, especially when we've all been there.....
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:55 pm

The following is from Emerson's 'The Oversoul'. As good a description of our true nature as any. None of it matters however so long as there exists the primary belief that we are matter - which only exists as a perception. That belief can be transcended through clarity in being.

"Yet there is a depth in those brief moments which constrains us to ascribe more reality to them than to all other experiences. . . .

[T]hat great nature in which we rest, as the earth lies in the soft arms of the atmosphere [is] that Unity, that Over-Soul, within which every man’s particular being is contained and made one with all other. . . . We live in succession, in division, in parts, in particles. Meantime within man is the soul of the whole; the wise silence; the universal beauty, to which every part and particle is equally related; the eternal One. And this deep power in which we exist, and whose beatitude is all accessible to us, is not only self-sufficing and perfect in every hour, but the act of seeing and the thing seen, the seer and the spectacle, the subject and the object, are one. We see the world piece by piece, as the sun, the moon, the animal, the tree; but the whole, of which these are the shining parts, is the soul. . . .

All goes to show that the soul in man is . . . the background of our being, in which they lie, — an immensity not possessed and that cannot be possessed. From within or from behind, a light shines through us upon things, and makes us aware that we are nothing, but the light is all. A man is the facade of a temple wherein all wisdom and all good abide. . . . When it breathes through his intellect, it is genius; when it breathes through his will, it is virtue; when it flows through his affection, it is love. . . .

Of this pure nature every man is at some time sensible. Language cannot paint it with his colors. It is too subtle. It is undefinable, unmeasurable, but we know that it pervades and contains us. We know that all spiritual being is in man. . . . We lie open on one side to the deeps of spiritual nature, to the attributes of God."


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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby Sighclone » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:05 am

Yes, Onceler...all we can do is try.

Webby -- What a fine Transcendental quote from Emerson! I've copied it to my 'favorites' folder. A professor friend of mine, Robert Richardson, wrote a great biography of Emerson, which I have read. I wrote my Master's thesis on Thoreau, a good friend of Emerson...back in 1972. These two guys were some of the very first to read translations of the Upanishads as they came to the West in the 19th century. They were pioneers, we are in their debt...and I, in yours.

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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:25 am

Glad you enjoyed it Andy. Emerson has always been a favorite of mine.

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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby SandyJoy » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:20 pm

Or as the old Navaho proverb goes:

"You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."

Profound in its simple truth. 8)

And if you really think about that-- it makes perfect sense---Because, alternately, it's not too difficult to wake someone who is actually asleep.

Although you might get a groan and "leave me alone, I'm sleeping"--
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby Sighclone » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:53 am

"You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."


Wow - that is a great one - thanks, Sandy.

Andy
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby karmarider » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:55 am

SandyJoy wrote:Or as the old Navaho proverb goes:

"You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep."


Beautiful.

I don't really see any problem here. EMC feels he is stuck--we've all been there in this process.

This is an iterative process of personal investigation. Wash, rinse, repeat. Sometimes we feel we get stuck for a while. In my experience, those times have been fruitful. And better than the times of delusional clarity. In either case, the process sorts itself out.
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby rideforever » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:24 am

Hmmm. Well I truly wonder if I should say something further.

Ed, perhaps you would prefer if I didn't. Let me know if that is so.

I can only say what I see.

The techniques work. All these techniques go back 10,000 years in one form or another. They are precious. So ... if you try many of them and they don't work, they that tells me that something fundamental is not in the right configuration.

It's very easy for the mind to be 'hiding', and for a person to think 'I am doing it'. But ... it's not what it seems, and they are not really doing it.

This might be hard to take, because it feels like ... "well are you saying I am a liar ?" ... or "are you saying I am not in control of myself".

But ... the entire "investigation" into what's happening inside you is a big part of the journey. How actually does your inner state work ? When you are "doing the techniques" ... who is doing it, and what is occurring. This is the path ... this investigation into your very self.

Often a typical position people find themselves in is something like this ... their own existence is denied when they are young ... and so as they got older they start doing things against their own interests (working too hard, or not at all) ... and the pressure escalates and escalates ... but they are so used to being "untrue" to the themselves ... it has been such a long time ... that it is hard to understand how to fix it. And of course not being yourself hurts ... and so the desperation increases and increases.

But, the techniques DO work. By all means try what other technique seems to be calling you ... but if one after another doesn't work ... then I would look deeper into myself ... and say to myself ... am I stuck ?

On Secret Enjoyments :

When I am angry ... I feel STRONG. Watch that happening next time you feel angry.

When I am miserable ... I feel CERTAIN.

These fixations give me a SECURE feeling. That is "enjoyable". Much more comfortable than to feel like I don't where I am.

Working yourself to the bone ... you feel I AM A FIGHTER ... you feel I AM A WORKER. Something like that. Again it is a feeling of security ... which keeps you doing it.

If you stop, if you drop it all ... suddenly there is a emptiness ... and it can feel bad. Initially.

So this is the secret enjoyment that can prevent change.

On Acceptance :

Now when one of these politicians says "I am going to start a war and I accept the consequences" ... what does that actually mean ?

Are they really accepting the consequences ?

No. They are numb to the consequences. The consequences don't really figure in their consideration. They walk past and say "yes I accept that".

But they are not even considering.

This is the feeling I get when you talk about acceptance.

It is not that you still feel bad. It is not that. But the way you talk about it ... it's like you are walking past it and say "yeah I accept it". It doesn't taste right.

Likewise when you talk about the many thing you have done. It's like "yeah I tried that, and that, and that, and that ... didn't work".

Ok, I hear that but ... what to do now ?

You might go back to the very very first "technique" you ever tried. And instead of saying "it didn't work" ... say : "what is happening that doesn't work within me ?" ... "is there something I can't see ?" ... "is there some reason why I would be afraid of change ?" ... "is there something I am blocking ?"

A struggle is needed ... to wrestle the Truth out. You are required to ... commit to the struggle. The deep knowledge is not free. You are required to ... "deserve" it with your honest endeavour to understand.

I am afraid that killing yourself with your work is not enough. That does not earn the Truth. Because it is not honest.

Being honest and being true to yourself ... does earn the Truth.

In my view, if you are cruel to yourself, what kind of "care" can you give to your loved ones ?

And seeing that this is not the way ... you must take care for yourself first. Then you will be healthy and your love will radiate outwards. Then you can care for others.

All over the world are people killing themselves -martyrs- in order to "help others". This is very bad. If you are suffering, what help can you be ? If you don't know how to look after yourself, what advice can you give ? On the basis of what ? Hurting yourself ?

Only if you LOVE YOURSELF can you love another. You must love yourself first.

There is no magic pill you can pop on the way to your hell of a life, that is going to turn it into Disney World.

You must be ready to change everything. To move you, yourself, your loved ones into love. To care for each moment. To care for your self. To make the decisions needed.

To trust that by being real, being True, being Loving ... that love will repay you. And it will.

You see on this forum there are people falling over to help you. Who care about your life. This is just a small part of life caring for you. Life wants you to be well.

I wonder what you yourself think you need ?
Do you have an idea ?
At the back of your mind is there something you always wanted to do ?
That you thought might help you ?

If you like be in nature, than that's a good start. I think that's the only positive thing you mentioned. But ... then you run in it. Ah. Can you not sit there and watch the trees ?

One day you will stop running. I hope it is because you have decided to stop and listen to the trees.
Last edited by rideforever on Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I was proud, and I demanded the finest teacher
.. .. and when he appeared
.. .. .. .. I was so small
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rideforever
 
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby Sistersamm » Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:06 pm

to rideforever:

Your last post here is so insightful, very inspirational, thank you.! I was an early poster to this thread, but I backed out after I recognized that I had nothing left to offer the OP. In my own journey, I finally recognized within myself the untruth I was living amongst the bazillion self-help books I was reading trying to get relief from my own troubles. I finally understood that what I was calling "acceptance" was actually merely "resignation" to the situation.
EX: A friend stops talking to me. I can't do anything about it, so I tell myself I accept it. But it bothers me. All the time. It hurts and I can't stop thinking and talking about it.
THAT is simply resignation, not full acceptance. Resigning oneself to what one can't change is not the same as accepting. It's a subtle difference, but one that is vitally important to see.
And you point out very well how easy it is for Ego to feel strong within anger and seeming powerlessness. My long time depression was a safety net I could fall into to prevent myself from truly working on myself. Because the work is scary and the depression was familiar. That was a real eye-opener to me, and I'm so glad to have left that behind. It still tries to take over sometimes, but I am so much more aware of its tricks now!

Thanks again for your words of wisdom !

Peace :D
Sistersamm
 
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