Mindfulness... looking for a way out

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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby emcconnell » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:21 pm

Ha, yesterday I visited a well-known psychic in my area. She told me things about my life no one could possibly have "known!" I also learned that kitty cats reincarnate "very quickly, very fast" and that I have two (not one, but two!) angels around me. I realized after the reading, that nothing this woman said seemed outlandish to me. I realized that I believe in clarivoyance, reincarnation, & angels as well as in God & in Jesus & the Holy Spirit too.


Again, not my truth. Not saying you are wrong, just simply not my truth.
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby treasuretheday » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:36 pm

I hear, ya emc! I guess I did throw quite a crazy quilt of things right in your face. Jesus, and psychics & reincarnated kitties, all in one swoop. Not exactly a baby step into this spiritual stuff. (But a glowing endorsement, yes?)

I have followed your thread with real interest, emc, and offer you my sincere wishes for love and peace. You have my deep respect & sincere admiration! I tip my hat as I read about how you work very hard to raise a young child, be a good husband, pay the bills, & be the best "you" can be. You are in the midst of quite a "spiritual" practice with such a full and demanding life. What you are doing, no matter how humble and ordinary it may seem, is a vocation of enormous magnitude. (Imho!).
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby karmarider » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:14 pm

emcconnell wrote:I do not believe that I have a "fatal flaw" that stops me from understanding this. I don't think that there is something "wrong" with me. I don't think that I am the only person who is "different". I don't think I am different. So I don't have a belief that "I know is wrong". I do not believe that "I am part of a cosmic consciousness" I do not believe in a "soul".


There is no problem with this. You are being true to your experience.

This just leads to more frustration each time I try some new method or technique because this is (generally) the basis.


Not true. Well, it may be true that a lot of spiritual pursuit is based on assumption and delusion and ego, the very things it promises to overcome.

But you already see that so you don't have to go through the futile exercise of spiritual seeking.

All I had wanted was a better human experience. Here and now in this life. Not after-life, not cosmic, not enlightenment, not oneness. I did not want to be spiritual. I wanted a better human experience because I knew it was possible. And it turned out, at least for me, that the only problem there is, is fear.

You say here that all you see is the human experience. I realize on a spiritual forum that may sound shocking, and so you are being told you are limiting yourself, but I see it as you being true to your experience, and there is not a lot of that going on in the world.

What exactly is wrong with the human experience? Human experience is beautiful, wonderful, mysterious...when fear and its effects are gone from the human experience, there isn't any need to reach for mollifying cosmic concepts. You can if you want to. My world view includes a view of oneness, manifestation, reincarnation, that we are spirit, that we choose the human experience to evolve, that thought is powerful and creative. I have a particular view of how the universe works. But that's not important. I can't prove my view to anyone else. My view allows me a richer experience of human life. But cosmic, mystical, spiritual beliefs and their understanding are not important. They may even get in the way.

Techniques are important. Because they can clear the mind without reliance on concepts or belief.

I think you are very lucky that you do not fall for ubiquitous concepts, just because they are ubiquitous.

Considering all this, what is the problem? What is that you want to change? If you are believe your human experience is all there is, and you are enjoying your experience, why all this angst?

In Conversations with God, it is said that there is only one reason to change. When you no longer are making a statement to the universe of who you choose to be.

If you are who you choose to be, then I don't see the point of the apparent angst you display. You clearly do not want to go into spirituality. I congratulate you for that and point out that you are lucky. You have resistance to trying practices, or you believe they do not work for you. What is it that you want to change about you?

I'm surprised you do not resonate with John Sherman. He says much of what you say about spirituality and practices.
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby rideforever » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:41 pm

The thing is EMC, that if you carry on as you are ... where's that going to get you ?

You seem to be stressed and suffering with no way out. Well ... what's the prognosis ? Stroke, heart attack, mental health problems, suicide, assaulting the boss at work ?

I mean, in this stressed state what "help" or looking after can you give your dependants ?

These people you are trying to look after - are you really looking after them if you are running on empty ?

What if you get ill ? .... then it's all over.

Wisdom, says ... you have got to change something, or it will change you - and it won't be pretty.
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby Sistersamm » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:24 am

To Emcconnell:

So if we can simplify your troubles to the word "unhappy" for brevity, let me summarize.
If you are unhappy, and you try to improve yourself by methods suggested by others, ie. therapy, spiritual pursuit, etc, and none of that has any effect on your problems, except to exacerbate them, what choices do you have left? I suppose that's what you ask yourself as each of these methods have failed. And it does look as though if you believe that all you are is what you are TODAY, then there is no where to go.
The only move you have left is to fully accept who and what you are claiming yourself to be, and just be it. No need to get discouraged or angry or frustrated or any other emotion. It is what it is. Period. End of story. You are "at square HERE and nothing will change it " seems to be what you are saying. If you are open to change, and what you try does not work, then by all means, return to what you know and accept where you are.
I do not know of any other way to survive this world if you believe this is all there is. Just pull up your britches and keep moving, as my dad would say.
Am I mistaken here? Just trying to help. :)

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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby emcconnell » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:06 pm

@ karmarider

All I had wanted was a better human experience. Here and now in this life. Not after-life, not cosmic, not enlightenment, not oneness. I did not want to be spiritual. I wanted a better human experience because I knew it was possible. And it turned out, at least for me, that the only problem there is, is fear.


This IS exactly what I am looking for a "better human experience"

You say here that all you see is the human experience. I realize on a spiritual forum that may sound shocking, and so you are being told you are limiting yourself, but I see it as you being true to your experience, and there is not a lot of that going on in the world.


Thank you for see ing this.

What exactly is wrong with the human experience? Human experience is beautiful, wonderful, mysterious...when fear and its effects are gone from the human experience, there isn't any need to reach for mollifying cosmic concepts. You can if you want to. My world view includes a view of oneness, manifestation, reincarnation, that we are spirit, that we choose the human experience to evolve, that thought is powerful and creative. I have a particular view of how the universe works. But that's not important. I can't prove my view to anyone else. My view allows me a richer experience of human life. But cosmic, mystical, spiritual beliefs and their understanding are not important. They may even get in the way.


This is the problem I do not see the human experience as "beautiful, wonderful, mysterious" because of fear and it's effects. THAT is what I am trying to deal with the "fear and it's effects".

Considering all this, what is the problem? What is that you want to change? If you are believe your human experience is all there is, and you are enjoying your experience, why all this angst?


I am NOT enjoying my human experience and I never have.

If you are who you choose to be, then I don't see the point of the apparent angst you display. You clearly do not want to go into spirituality. I congratulate you for that and point out that you are lucky. You have resistance to trying practices, or you believe they do not work for you. What is it that you want to change about you?


I am NOT who I choose to be therein lies the angst. I DO want to go into spirituality, I'd kill (for the lack of a better term) to be able to understand and really believe spirituality, that is why I keep trying it.

I'm surprised you do not resonate with John Sherman. He says much of what you say about spirituality and practices.


I've tried and tried but I just don't get the whole real "me" aspect of this.
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby emcconnell » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:16 pm

@ rideforever

The thing is EMC, that if you carry on as you are ... where's that going to get you ?
You seem to be stressed and suffering with no way out. Well ... what's the prognosis ? Stroke, heart attack, mental health problems, suicide, assaulting the boss at work ?
I mean, in this stressed state what "help" or looking after can you give your dependants ?
These people you are trying to look after - are you really looking after them if you are running on empty ?
What if you get ill ? .... then it's all over.
Wisdom, says ... you have got to change something, or it will change you - and it won't be pretty.

BINGO! ALL of this is on my mind 24/7. These reasons are EXACTLY why I started on this path in the first place (and why I continue on it).
These ARE my reasons for wanting to change. If it were just me I probably wouldn't be as concerned, but it's not. And that has always been a huge part of the problem. My concerns focus only on the wants and needs of others not on my own. I don't give much thought to how this effects me only how it effects those around me. But then get so wrapped up in it that I repel those around me. So they very "caring too much for others and not myself" is exactly what drives them away. But here is the kicker, this "caring for others" is the only thing that even comes close to "making me happy". I have nothing other than caring for others that makes me happy in any way. This is all i have ever know. But this obsessive caring for others (at any cost to myself) is what eventually causes pain.
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby emcconnell » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:27 pm

@ sistersamm

So if we can simplify your troubles to the word "unhappy" for brevity, let me summarize.
If you are unhappy, and you try to improve yourself by methods suggested by others, ie. therapy, spiritual pursuit, etc, and none of that has any effect on your problems, except to exacerbate them, what choices do you have left? I suppose that's what you ask yourself as each of these methods have failed.



That is exactly what I ask myself on a constant basis. That is why I keep trying whatever I can get my hands on.

And it does look as though if you believe that all you are is what you are TODAY, then there is no where to go.


I don't believe that there is nowhere to go. If I believed that I would have stopped trying a long time ago.

The only move you have left is to fully accept who and what you are claiming yourself to be, and just be it. No need to get discouraged or angry or frustrated or any other emotion. It is what it is. Period. End of story. You are "at square HERE and nothing will change it " seems to be what you are saying.


I do accept who I am, I don't like who I am. Accepting it does not mean that I have to like it or stop trying to grow and change.
I am NOT saying that nothing will change it... again, that is why I keep trying. If I though that nothing would change it why would I keep trying?.

If you are open to change, and what you try does not work, then by all means, return to what you know and accept where you are.


THIS is the reason that I first posted on this forum. "Looking for a way out". This is what I have been trying to explain, I can find no way to "return to what I know".

I do not know of any other way to survive this world if you believe this is all there is. Just pull up your britches and keep moving, as my dad would say.
Am I mistaken here? Just trying to help.


I wish I had a dime for every time I have heard a statement like this "just get over it", "suck it up", "what are you complaining about", "pull yourself up by your bootstraps".
If I could "pull up my britches and keep moving" I would.
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby Onceler » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:48 pm

Sounds like all the spiritual advice has been exhausted, emcconnell. I have been in similar states as you and suffered severe anxiety and depression for years. These old friends still come around for old times sake. Looking back, what has often gotten me thru is somatic practices, like; Qi gong, strict plant-based diet, and exercise. In fact, as I become more balanced, this is the lifestyle I am naturally drawn to. Gotta take care of your body as well as your spirit.....maybe even body first.

Best wishes for you, you'll figure it out.
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby emcconnell » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:51 pm

@ Onceler

I do this. While I am not a strict vegetarian (I do eat fish) my diet consists of mainly vegetables (and a select few whole grains). I've been eating this way for years.
I get up before 5 AM every morning to run and go to the gym. I get up and do these things this early in order to not take any time away from family. Used to do a lot of early morning cycling until a knee injury sidelined me. The running bothers my knee (but that's manageable) the cycling however is out of the question at this point.
This is the only time that I can squeeze into my schedule for such activities. I figure I'm awake anyway (I don't sleep much, never have) so this is the perfect time for me to take care of my body without feeling guilty about taking time away from my wife and daughter. While this diet and exercise routine does keep me healthy it does nothing to help me become more balanced (in an emotional sense).
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:10 pm

Have you explored breathing disciplines like rebirthing, holotropic breath work, yogi breath? Not just one or two experiments, but something like a minimum 10 series (several months, or an ongoing practice is better), 30 minute, focused program? By focused, I mean an open conscious inquiry into what is 'true nature', all during the breathing session?

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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby emcconnell » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:27 pm

I have not heard of these specific techniques by name.

I went with the Conscious Connected Breathing route awhile back.
Is this similar to the practices that you are suggesting?

(if so) As this was presented/taught to me it was supposed to bring about some type of altered state of consciousness and aid in relaxation.
I stuck with this for quite some time (a number of years ago) but I never achieved any altered state of consciousness.
The instructor however is still a close friend.
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby karmarider » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:28 pm

emcconnell wrote:
I'm surprised you do not resonate with John Sherman. He says much of what you say about spirituality and practices.


I've tried and tried but I just don't get the whole real "me" aspect of this.
[/quote]

Not the real you. Just you.

What if feels like to be you. Very ordinary.
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby rideforever » Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:43 pm

Exercising is a good thing to do first thing in the morning; I bet it keeps you sane (ish).

It is a good opportunity to follow your breathing. That's what I would suggest. As you run just let your attention be on your breathing. And sort of 'surrender' to it. i am sure it will do nothing in the beginning; but all these things require persistence.

From what you say, I think it is important for you to have a "surrendering" feeling instead of a "forceful" feeling.

If you feel the stress at the front of your head, you can know that that is an indication of using "force".


Also I second WW's thoughts on breathwork.

At the moment I am doing 20 mins pranayama every day, and I can tell you it is a strong technique. No BS. That's why I do it. Fast, effective, reliable.

It has made all depressions vanish overnight, plus it cleans up the psyche and makes all the spiritual stuff more accessible.

The 20min routine is :

(seated with spine erect)

Bhastrika : 20 breaths then breathe and hold mahabhanda. Then breathe out and relax wait till breath back to normal. Repeat 3 times in total.
Nadhi Shodan : 20 cycles, a good ratio at the beginning is 1:2:2 ( so 4secs in breath, 8secs holding, 8secs outbreath, or - 5sec:10sec:10sec)

You can find instructions for these easily, this is the standard pranayama for yoga and must be 10,000 years old.

( in the vedas it says that if a yogi does the above exercise 4 times a day for 3 months your entire psyche will be cleansed leading to samadhi ... I would recommend you just do it once a day at the beginning though )
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Re: Mindfulness... looking for a way out

Postby Onceler » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:10 pm

karmarider wrote:
Not the real you. Just you.

What if feels like to be you. Very ordinary.


YES!!!!!!!
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