A Course in Miracles

peleke4
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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by peleke4 » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:54 pm

Prior to going through ACIM, has anyone here already immersed themselves in nonduality resources? If you were already in touch with Awareness within, do you feel it was even necessary to have gone through ACIM?

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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by karmarider » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:47 am

I haven't gone through the course, but I've read the material. It's another resource. It has an excellent explanation of the ego.

Resources help but no particular resource is necessary.

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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by James » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:47 am

Peleke, what does your heart tell you?

Here's a good passage from ACIM on Forgiveness:

"What could you want forgiveness cannot give? Do you want peace? Forgiveness offers it. Do you want happiness, a quiet mind, a certainty of purpose, and a sense of worth and beauty that transcends the world? Do you want care and safety, and the warmth of sure protection always? Do you want a quietness that cannot be disturbed, a gentleness that never can be hurt, a deep, abiding comfort, and a rest so perfect it can never be upset?

All this forgiveness offers you, and more. It sparkles on your eyes as you awake, and gives you joy with which to meet the day. It soothes your forehead while you sleep, and rests upon your eyelids so you see no dreams of fear and evil, malice and attack. And when you wake again, it offers you another day of happiness and peace. All this forgiveness offers you, and more."
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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kiki
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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by kiki » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:49 am

Prior to going through ACIM, has anyone here already immersed themselves in nonduality resources? If you were already in touch with Awareness within, do you feel it was even necessary to have gone through ACIM?
I came across ACIM about 20 years ago, years before an in depth examination of nonduality. It was incomprehensible to me and I didn't get anywhere with it; I also found it to be extremely wordy. After discovering that I was actually awareness (thanks initially to ET) I looked at ACIM again. I felt, and still do, that it's extremely and unnecessarily wordy, and confusing as well. Even now I can hardly read a paragraph of it. Perhaps that's why I never made any headway with it in the first place. I also don't care for the formulaic layout and the religious overtones.

It's my guess that if you are familiar with nonduality and the fact that "You" are Awareness ACIM will be a huge distraction. Its wordiness clouds the simplicity of what you are. Why go through that to realize something so simple? On the other hand, there are people who explain the course in a more easily digestible way. Marianne Williamson comes to mind (and there are others, but I don't remember their names). I would much rather read her/them than the course itself.
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Ananda
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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by Ananda » Sat Aug 08, 2009 6:48 am

Yeah, as Kiki says, very, very wordy. But, beautifully wordy. :D

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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by James » Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:20 am

Here's another beautiful passage:

"Seek not outside yourself. For all your pain comes simply from a futile search for what you want, insisting where it must be found. What if it is not there? Do you prefer that you be right or happy? Be you glad that you are told where happiness abides, and seek no longer elsewhere. You will fail. But it is given you to know the truth, and not to seek for it outside yourself.

No one who comes here but must still have hope, some lingering illusion, or some dream that there is something outside of himself that will bring happiness and peace to him. If everything is in him this cannot be so. And therefore by his coming, he denies the truth about himself, and seeks for something more than everything, as if a part of it were separated off and found where all the rest of it is not. This is the purpose he bestows upon the body; that it seek for what he lacks, and give him what would make himself complete. And thus he wanders aimlessly about, in search of something that he cannot find, believing that he is what he is not."


(T-29.VII.1:9)
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

peleke4
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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by peleke4 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:45 am

I read the first two chapters and was like "Huh?" After reading those chapters though, I had an even greater appreciation for the more recent resources: Tolle, Adyashanti, and especially Byron Katie.

I skimmed through the workbook. There was a lesson that pointed out that you'll see "edges of light" around things you're already familiar with. I thought this was a good way to describe the undescribable (especially when it comes seeing trees for instance). I also liked the "one problem, one solution" lesson.

I don't feel so inclined to look into it. I just bought it because I came across it in a second hand bookstore. It's nice to have. Who knows, maybe in the future I'll check it out

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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by James » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:51 pm

Kiki wrote:
I also don't care for the formulaic layout and the religious overtones.

It's my guess that if you are familiar with nonduality and the fact that "You" are Awareness ACIM will be a huge distraction. Its wordiness clouds the simplicity of what you are. Why go through that to realize something so simple?
We could say nonduality carries religious overtones too, it is still conceptual as is ACIM. There are plenty of Nondual "fundamentalists"; we have had a few on this forum, in the past, and I find that they are just as annoying as Christian fundamentalists. As Adyashanti likes to say, "at best spiritual teachings are useful fiction". They are relative approximations of truth.

The structured lessons and lengthy text of ACIM didn't work for me as a "program," but it seems to work for many; although it was my first glimpse of awakening in the late 1980's, so I still have a heartfelt connection and grattitude to it. Now random browsing, through the book, when I feel inspired, always turns up something profound and clarifying.

I used to go to an Eckhart Tolle silent gathering at a home a while back, and the host also ran an ACIM weekly meeting on a different night of the week. The Tolle group had an average of 3-5 people a week, where as the ACIM group had a consistent 25-30 every week. Both groups had been running over a year. Once the host decided to invite the ACIM group to sit for the Tolle video, to increase the attendance. So I got to meet some of those people. We were all packed into a small space. And what lovely, radiant people they were. Although they seemed to enjoy his video, and laughed at ET's sense of humor. None of them appeared to be taken by the message, at least not right away, because in the following weeks the attendance was back to just a handful for the weekly Eckhart video. So who really knows how awakening is supposed to happen? To each their own.
"You" are Awareness
That is an excellent pointer, perhaps as good as a pointer can get, but it is stil limited and still retains a degree of concept in it. I think Peter Dziuban's book, Consciousness Is All, is fantastic, and I highly recommend it, but even he admits that Awareness is a limited term that can be problematic when explaining truth. One could say the statement ""You" are Love" is as equally true as "You" are Awareness". And of course the word love is also limiting and prone to conceptualization. I often find myself coming back to the statement "I don't know what I AM... all I know is that I exist", and that to me is miraculous.

If a teaching points an individual to their own inner direction and Truth, it has served its purpose, since the real teacher is within. And it seems there are as many ways that truth expresses itself as there are people appearing to realize it and experience it.

james
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"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by kiki » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:05 pm

If a teaching points an individual to their own inner direction and Truth, it has served its purpose, since the real teacher is within. And it seems there are as many ways that truth expresses itself as there are people appearing to realize it and experience it.
I agree. It just so happened that ACIM didn't speak to "me" in a way that I could hear it.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by HermitLoon » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:08 pm

This is all that is known - all "I Know"

There is "Pure Awareness"

Because of the infinite potential of “Pure Awareness” the illusion of duality (separation) is free to arise – an “illusion” because “Pure Awareness” is undifferentiated, timeless, infinite – the “all that is” - the essence of “being”- the knowing of which cannot be described with words..
Within (because of) - this “illusion of duality” - this “unreality” - there can then arise the fleeting consciousness of “I and the Other” - the “world of form” - language and thoughts - the “Human Experience”.

Peace
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Peace

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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by James » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:20 pm

I agree. It just so happened that ACIM didn't speak to "me" in a way that I could hear it.
I know this is one of your favorite quotes Kiki:

"Silence is the language God speaks and everything else is a bad translation"

Apparently that doesn't stop us from trying to put into words :D

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

peleke4
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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by peleke4 » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:30 pm

I continued reading further even though I was stumped in some areas. I became more familiar with stuff when I hit the chapter on ego. I just have this curiosity about the course due to it's immense popularity. I sifted through discussion forums/reviews about ACIM. Many people recommend going through the workbook first if one finds the text too difficult to understand.

Yesterday, I started on lesson 1: "X doesn't mean anything." It advises to do this lesson twice, no more than a minute each. I surely went overboard with it. I was cruising my familiar surroundings, pointing out various things and applying the lesson to it. I found the lesson to be quite powerful.

I feel I am in touch with Awareness (or this could be my ego speaking ha). I've gone through numerous Tolle, Adyashanti, and Byron Katie resources. They all helped tremendously. But despite what I've been through, I'm still going to start the course afresh. I'll see how long I stay with it.

As pointed out, I'm going through this course out of curiosity really. I wonder how someone who was completely identified with thought ever even get started with something like this to beging with. In PON, that book was A LOT more understandable than ACIM. PON has very simple instructions and captures you from the first pages... ACIM, on the other hand, isn't clear at all.. moreover, the instructions may be simple (like lesson 1) BUT it takes a lot of time and most definitely patience because there are 365 lessons, one to be done each day for a year! PON advises simply to "watch thought" and a higher consciousness instantly comes in. Another thing is that with a person totally unfamiliar w/ nonduality and what not, more than likely he/she wouldn't have a powerful experience with lesson 1. "That tree in my backyard does not mean anything... and?"

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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by tod » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:03 am

peleke4 wrote:I read the first two chapters and was like "Huh?" After reading those chapters though, I had an even greater appreciation for the more recent resources: Tolle, Adyashanti, and especially Byron Katie.
Hi peleke - just to tell you that I am reading the text and am currently up to Chapter 6. I felt when I got into this chapter that I was really getting to something - so to me, it is not surprising that you were like "huh?" after the first two chapters.

peleke4
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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by peleke4 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:17 am

Yeah, the first chapters were very confusing.. halfway on Chapter 5 now, the text is actually interesting at this point and is flowing much better.

Today I was doing Lesson 2: "i have given x all the meaning it has for me." Just like Lesson 1, this one also was very powerful for me. The experience I get is similar to the question in PON: "What's my next thought going to be?" Or the question, "What is true without thought?" For instance, I was driving on the same road I usually drive on and stated, "I've given this road all the meaning it has for me." Then I entered that "space." very difficult to explain of course.

So far for me, the lessons are similar to inquiry ?'s. It must be because I'm already familiar with "watching thoughts" and inquiry to begin with (Byron Katie's "The Work" and other ?'s I constantly asked myself before discovering Katie). When I stated, "I give x all the meaning it has for me," I realize in a deeper level that x is simply x: it is what it is. It's my very own thought that covers it up, interprets, it. What would x be MINUS the thought? ( I don't ask that specifically.. I'm just trying to describe the experience that happens when I make the statement "I give x all the meaning it has for me.)

I'm just curious what it would be like for someone who was totally identified with thought: had no experience in "watching thoughts" or inquiry/questioning thought.. That's why I asked earlier if anyone was already familiar w/ nonduality prior to going on with ACIM

peleke4
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Re: A Course in Miracles

Post by peleke4 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:09 am

I finished reading the entire book. Wow that took a long time. In fact, this is the longest book I've ever read in my life. After reading this book, I have an even greater appreciation for PON. I agree with what others say that ACIM is wordy. Whereas, PON is very clear.. getting right straight to the point without the heavy layers. ACIM writing, although long and wordy, is beautiful, poetic. That was one aspect I enjoyed while reading.

ACIM was written in the 70's. Now imagine a car that was built in the 70's versus the modern cars of today. Cars nowadays came a long way, highly advanced in comparison with rides built in the 70's. With that same idea in mind, I feel that PON is an advanced version of the same truth ACIM points to. PON is signficantly shorter and crystal clear in contrast. I highly doubt I would have been able to get in touch with Life via the ACIM route... well, I eventually probably would have BUT I would have spent much more time getting there.

I did only the first 25 pages or so of the Workbook. I may look into that depending on how I feel.

For anyone seeking peace, I would recommened PON over ACIM. I feel that ACIM is not clear, almost riddle-like whereas PON is clear and to the point.

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