Some Questions about Jed Mckenna's Perspective

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Jbrooke
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Some Questions about Jed Mckenna's Perspective

Post by Jbrooke » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:25 pm

Hi everyone,

Mckenna's estimate that there are only a few dozen truth-related beings alive on earth at any time and that 1 in a hundred million actually make it... What is this based on? How does he know how many people are actually enlightened or not? I'm just curious how he arrived at this personal estimate? Just a curiosity I felt compelled to quench.

Any ideas?

And my other question is: Does Mckenna believe that in order to reach actual Truth you must shed your human connectedness with others? With other people, other things? Live with as little form as humanly possible? Not feel a true connection to other humans? That if you have not shed this and transformed into the type of person he describes himself to me, that there is no chance you can or have found Truth?

Thanks for reading!
Jen

karmarider
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Re: Some Questions about Jed Mckenna's Perspective

Post by karmarider » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:29 pm

Jbrooke wrote:Hi everyone,

Mckenna's estimate that there are only a few dozen truth-related beings alive on earth at any time and that 1 in a hundred million actually make it... What is this based on? How does he know how many people are actually enlightened or not? I'm just curious how he arrived at this personal estimate? Just a curiosity I felt compelled to quench.
He says this in his first book--he also says it's just a guess. In a later book he says perhaps the number is higher in part because of the dissemination of advice like his.

My sense is that Mckenna is trying to convey that for those of us who have the intention of awakening (as opposed to those who never have the insight and those who awaken accidentally), the biggest obstacle is attachment. Attachment to particular belief systems and theories and spirituality and terminology and teachers and so on. This is an oft-recurring theme in his books. The iconic example he uses is when he is trying to shake up the woman who is strongly attached to her spiritual understanding by using the scene in the Mahabharata and Bhagvad Gita where Krishna dispels Arjuna's attachment. And he talks about the need to always go "further", he talks about (often derisively) of people who are attached to spiritual belief systems, he talks about putting the horse-before-the-cart, and so on.

Adyashanti often repeats the same message, but usually in a gentler style.
Jbrooke wrote: And my other question is: Does Mckenna believe that in order to reach actual Truth you must shed your human connectedness with others? With other people, other things? Live with as little form as humanly possible? Not feel a true connection to other humans? That if you have not shed this and transformed into the type of person he describes himself to me, that there is no chance you can or have found Truth?
...
Jen
I think he's repeating his message that the biggest obstacle in going "further" is attachment to our current understanding. That attachment can include the particular ways we desire awakening to be. The fear of losing human connectedness is one such attachment.

karmarider
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Re: Some Questions about Jed Mckenna's Perspective

Post by karmarider » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:41 pm

Seems to me, based on what you say here and in another post about Adyashanti, that you are questioning your current understanding. That's a beautiful thing--I've learned to enjoy the times when I can release the attachment to what I think I know and take a fresh look. It's wonderful, it tells me that I'm not stuck.

Enjoy!

Jbrooke
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Re: Some Questions about Jed Mckenna's Perspective

Post by Jbrooke » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:30 am

I guess that questioning our current understanding does need questioning now and then! But I feel like I'm doing it almost nonstop and sort of feeding a frenzied obsession for more and more perspectives. Instead of just relaxing in the moment- which is ultimately the point!

I think what struck me about what Mcknenna said in his book (I haven't finished it yet) is when he described his life. Said he doesn't relate to other humans (primarily adults) and doesn't feel a real connection to others. Can't carry on a normal conversation with others beyond talking about the weather. Severed all ties with family and friends and possessions.

I understand that this his personal situation and there is no right or wrong in it whatsoever. I just wonder if someone might be fully enlightened the way Mckenna is but also enjoys the company of other humans and engages in friendships and partnerships and even enjoys earthly material possessions (for what they are)? Is cutting off ties and attachments to other humans a prerequisite for finding the truth and enlightenment? I understand that relationships with all types of forms including other people, changes within and externally. But must they be eradicated in order to attain real truth?

Thanks again for your input!
Jen

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Re: Some Questions about Jed Mckenna's Perspective

Post by karmarider » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:59 am

Jbrooke wrote:I guess that questioning our current understanding does need questioning now and then! But I feel like I'm doing it almost nonstop and sort of feeding a frenzied obsession for more and more perspectives. Instead of just relaxing in the moment- which is ultimately the point!
There does a come a time when this seeking energy dispels and attachment to any particular way of thinking drops off. I don't have much clarity on why that happens, and whether it's necessary to go through the seeking to be able to let go of it, or whether it's possible to enable that or speed it up. That's how it happened for me, so that's what I know. But there are the enlightened who seem to suggest that we don't have to go through the merry-go-round. JMK and John Sherman are among those.
I understand that relationships with all types of forms including other people, changes within and externally. But must they be eradicated in order to attain real truth?
I don't think it's necessary to eradicate (or make any other lifestyle change). But eradication can happen. I isolated myself for about three years. It wasn't a conscious decision, nor were there any negative feelings about it when I realized that's what was happening. It was just the case.

Jbrooke
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Re: Some Questions about Jed Mckenna's Perspective

Post by Jbrooke » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:54 am

May I ask you what you did during those 3 years of isolation? How the isolation even began? If you aren't comfortable with writing me about it I certainly understand, of course!

karmarider
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Re: Some Questions about Jed Mckenna's Perspective

Post by karmarider » Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:29 am

Jbrooke wrote:May I ask you what you did during those 3 years of isolation? How the isolation even began? If you aren't comfortable with writing me about it I certainly understand, of course!
I don't mind talking about it but I don't think it's very instructive. It's just what happened. I had a very active life--career, family, friends, the usual. I lost my job and couldn't find one for a while, and after the initial shock of it, I saw this is a positive development, and so didn't try very hard to look for another job for a while. Money just worked itself out. Interaction with family and friends dropped off. I preferred to be alone, to do less, to simplify.

Jbrooke
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Re: Some Questions about Jed Mckenna's Perspective

Post by Jbrooke » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:50 pm

Thanks for sharing that.

Simplifying. Sometimes I think that's what it's all about. Well, not ALL it's about. But it's key. We are walking around ensconced in layers of all kinds of stuff... Building it up each and every moment instead of sitting with it and allowing it to shed itself.

Yutso
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Re: Some Questions about Jed Mckenna's Perspective

Post by Yutso » Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:20 pm

I have not read Jed Mckenna. However, when we learn to know and accept the gound of our being we experience this ground as inseperable from compassion.

Solitude, enlightenment, (compassion) is not withdrawal from ordinary life. " It is not apart from, above, "better than" ordinary life; on the contrary, it is the very ground of ordinary life." T Merton

When enlightened, illusions finally dissolve and we find ourselves in the heart of compassion able not only to love this person or that but all human beings.

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