Twist on Ramana Maharshi's Self Inquiry

User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4604
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Post by kiki » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:04 pm

"for instance, you said emotions continue to arise and then fade away. I'm guessing many of us may read "emotions rising" and think to ourselves, "hmm,but that's what I'm trying to get away from."

Right, this is a fairly common concern. We tend to think that to be awake is to escape emotions, but that's not it. To be awake is to know what you really are; when you know what you really are then thoughts and emotions will arise but there will be no claiming them as "mine." The "mine" is a fiction so ownership of them doesn't exist. They come and go - when they come, they come unbidden; when they go, they go without regret.

The effect of emotions upon "me" is like this: they sweep through spontaneously and are gone again. Because there is no "owning" of them they dissipate their energy quickly, leaving "me" feeling fresh. It's sort of like all of the windows of the house are open and the wind blows through keeping the house aired out, with nothing building up and being trapped indoors. When the anger is gone, there are no traces left affecting "me" and the rest of my day.

An example from real life: I am an elementary school teacher and there are times when something happens in the classroom which seems to cause anger. There are times when the anger can be used as a teaching tool and so I can consciously let it express itself in ways which aren't too upsetting for the students. This "anger" is consciously expressed rather than becoming an unconscious reaction; it is the unconscious reactions that are clung to and keep eating away after the initial anger has arisen, and this is what no longer happens to me.

All the time the anger is present, inside "I" am quiet and still. I can "see" the anger from the stillness and am not swayed by it. I can "see" the role I am playing as a teacher and there is the knowledge that in my role I can't have anarchy in the classroom otherwise no one would learn anything. As soon as teaching responsibilities end, so does my role, but all through acting within my role there is silence and stillness.
.........

The expressions of consciousness we are assuming, that of human, has associated with it a gamut of emotions and the ability to think - these are distinguishing characteristics of being "human". I would not like a life without them. On the other hand, most find themselves controlled by them, and this is what is upsetting to people and what awakening removes. They no longer control one's life because it is seen directly that they don't belong to anyone; they just come and go. What has happened is that as a result of the ability to think, an identity has formed which claims thought and emotion, which takes ownership of them. This identity is nothing but a bundle of thought, kept alive by the repitition of one's "story of me". When the identity is investigated it is found to lack substance - it doesn't really exist except as thoughts which come and go. If it doesn't really exist, then there can be no "ownership" of anything.

This is what gets dismantled in awakening, the ownership. Even so, what I have found in my life is that thoughts tend to arise less and less, and emotions tend to even themselves out - there just aren't emotional highs and lows. There is always a deep quiet inside, a stillness which never goes away, and when thoughts and emotions do arise they are CONSCIOUSLY seen immediately. Because they are consciously seen they cannot take "me" over.

I hope this is helpful. To be honest, I have to think hard to come up with a specific instance of a negative emotion arising. It does happen, but when it does it is forgotten again right away - what can I say?

kiki

User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4604
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Post by kiki » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:28 pm

john said, "It seems that oneness is about harmony with all things and the light that melts ego helps us get there?"

Life IS harmony, and that's what you really are: life expressed in the form of "human". There is only one life and that's what you are, life itself. The unmodified light of pure consciousness (the real You), when consciously illuminating ego (modified consciousness), melts the ego back into unmodified consciousness. Prior to this, when there isn't the conscious experience of ego, ego operates unconsciously. This is why it's sometimes called "awakening" - consciousness awakens to itself, roused from its sleeping form, ego. Then the "oneness" and harmony with all things comes into focus. It is not the beginning of oneness, but the discovery that oneness has always been the case.

"The consciousnes that destroys polaritys, us, them,right,wrong (the conditioned mind egoic self?)."

Yes, the consciousness which SEEMS to separate us is modified consciousness taking the form of conditioned mind and ego.

"It's all one?"

Yup, and You are IT!

"As Tolle mentions "the surrender to what is and the end to compulsive thinking".

What ET calls compulsive thinking is the result of conditioning and identification with the false self, the egoic sense. The surrender to what is, is the natural interface of your true nature with the manifested universe. You/awareness cannot Not surrender, cannot Not allow anything. When the compulsive thinker, the "little me" as he calls it, is exposed to unmodified pure consciousness the legs get kicked out from beneath it. Associated storylines of the "little me" begin to fade away, and with them, so does compulsive thinking.

kiki

User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4604
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Post by kiki » Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:38 pm

lucy asks, "Kiki after you had the awakening did fear of everything just drop away from your life?"

Fear no longer appears. Even trips to the dentist or doctor don't trigger fear. :)

"Is it easier to make decisions now? I guess there is no one left to make decisions, but can you describe how it works in your daily life, when you accept everythng as you have chosen it, does everything "work out" for the best as ET describes."

Things get done that need to get done even without a "me" doing them. There may be the "appearance" at times of an apparent me which SEEMS to do things, but I know that he isn't real. There is no struggle with anything.

Things "work out" from the perspective of the ego. From the nonperspective of what I am there is just the unfolding of whatever is happening. There is nothing "driving" me to do anything at all, life is lived spontaneously. I have nothing to do really; it's very peaceful.

kiki

lucy
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:09 pm

Post by lucy » Sat Dec 31, 2005 10:05 pm

thank you kiki

you have helped immensely.

lucy

Egoicmidget
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:09 pm

Post by Egoicmidget » Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:01 pm

Thanks for the clarity Kiki. It never ceases to fill me with wonder how gifted the teachers here are.

How those few can explain to the mind what isn't of the mind
but of the wholeness of all things.

To merge all the duality into just "being"and"oneness".
That backward step we all take when we surrender to what is.

The "gap" all there is.
The eternal"one".


John

DavidK
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:29 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Contact:

Post by DavidK » Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:26 am

Again, thank you Kiki. And thank you to the others here as well. Sometimes the questions are as valuable as the answers.

I've got more questions and I'm going to start a new thread under "Questions" to make it easier for others to find this discussion.

Hope to see you all there. :D

Dave

phil
Posts: 649
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:39 am
Location: Gainesville Florida USA
Contact:

Post by phil » Sun Jan 01, 2006 1:42 am

Please add my thanks to the list. All your typing is appreciated, and is indeed helpful.

I have more questions too, but they can arise in the context of other threads.

I had a mental image of Jesus healing somebody spontaneously on the spur of the moment one day. Next day he wakes up to find 4,000 sick people in his front yard.

If Kiki keeps posts of such quality coming, speaking with us here could become another full time teaching job... :-)

be-lank
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:50 pm

Post by be-lank » Sun Jan 01, 2006 8:28 pm

Kiki!

You are a spiritual teacher! Wonderful!

Your writings are sublime. There is something that stood out though.

You wrote:

“The expressions of consciousness we are assuming, that of human, has associated with it a gamut of emotions and the ability to think - these are distinguishing characteristics of being "human". I would not like a life without them.”

Expressions of consciousness we are assuming- sounds off.
Eckhart has said there is only One Consciousness manifesting as “us”.

And when you wrote that you would not like a life without a “gamut of emotions and the ability to think”- that was puzzling. For Consciousness is that which is beyond emotions and thoughts- the mind. We are human Beings- is it not about Being- and Being using the mind as a tool, if it does? If there is no me, isn’t there just God, Being, Love, One? “A life.” Isn’t there just One Life- Life itself?

I do not mean to be I picky! It’s just that this stood out for me.

Thanks!

Mal2
Posts: 40
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:47 am

Post by Mal2 » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:02 am

Great discussion going on here folks.

Thanks Kiki for some great instincts. I was enthralled by your explantions of the enlightened state.

Although I have and do experience the state of awareness that you describe it doesnt last and I still get pulled in frequently by my thoughts and emotions. I suffer quite painful emotions from time to time especially in my family life.

There have been periods in my recent past, as I have mentioned in previous posts, where I experienced the feeling of oneness continously but I seem to have lost this again, the continuity I mean.

Could it be the case that I am trying to recover what I lost in the form of peace of mind and thus getting lost in the thinking mind and expectations?

Any insights you have would be greatly appreciated.

Mal

User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4604
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Post by kiki » Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:25 pm

be-lank wrote:For Consciousness is that which is beyond emotions and thoughts- the mind. We are human Beings- is it not about Being- and Being using the mind as a tool, if it does? If there is no me, isn’t there just God, Being, Love, One? “A life.”
There is only consciousness, but it can be pure, unmodified, and unconditioned (what you are in reality), or modified, conditioned, and temporary (as in mind, ego, emotions, objects). You are not the changing form but the unchanging form. To not realize the unchanging form is to remain trapped and identified with the changing form. Awakening is waking up from the changing to the unchanging.

"Human being" is one of the countless manifestations of consciousness in its CONDITIONED form. "Tree being" is another, "flower being" is yet another, and so on throughout all of manifestation. "Anger being" is another, "fear being" is another - these as well as other unique human emotions are part of the "package" known as "human being". All of these, however, have a beginning and an end; the "being" part of all of these is the unconditioned form of consciousness. As the tree, flower, human, anger, fear come and go, the "being" remains, and that's what you really are, the being.

Mal2 wrote:There have been periods in my recent past, as I have mentioned in previous posts, where I experienced the feeling of oneness continously but I seem to have lost this again, the continuity I mean.

Could it be the case that I am trying to recover what I lost in the form of peace of mind and thus getting lost in the thinking mind and expectations?
Yes, the effort to get it back is what keeps it seemingly out of reach. Expectation is about the future and so the present keeps getting missed. This keeps the mind active to the point where it isn't getting seen. Don't be looking for "peace of mind" because that doesn't exist - the mind is what is active. You, the real you IS peace, so it's always here.

By the way Phil, thanks for the clarifying directionss on how to quote.

k

lucy
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:09 pm

Post by lucy » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:15 am

Do the actions that we take in our "conditioned" form (unaware of our true nature) carry a karmic significance? Once we realize who we are and become aware that we are unconditioned consciousness, does that many every action that we take will automatically be in the best interest of the "one pure consciousness". Can you be "awakened" and make choices that may not "appear" to be in the best interest of the "One pure consiciousness", for example knowingly deceiving others etc. because the "one" wants to have that experience.....

My other question is about abundance. I do not understand the connection between gratitude and abundance. ET in The New Earth talks about abundance and the best way to have more in your life is to "know" that you already are abundance. What I think he means is that the"One" is whole and lacks nothing. If we are that, then we must already have abundance. But why the gratitude? Maybe I am getting stuck on the word, but gratitude seems to be a word of judgement i.e if we are ungrateful, then as a result we will not experience abundance. Who is judging us?

DavidK
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:29 am
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Contact:

Post by DavidK » Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:38 am

lucy wrote: Maybe I am getting stuck on the word, but gratitude seems to be a word of judgement i.e if we are ungrateful, then as a result we will not experience abundance. Who is judging us?
The word "gratitude" can certainly be taken that way. Hence ET's cautions about words and labels.

In my humble opinion, he is speaking of dwelling in a space of noticing and appreciating all that is arising in awareness. When we do that, it is obvious that there is no lack. But when we focus on a desire that is not currently being met, then we miss the abundance manifesting here in the Now.

Dave

be-lank
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:50 pm

Post by be-lank » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:42 pm

Hi kiki!

Thank you for responding.

I would like to comment on a few things.

You wrote:
"Human being" is one of the countless manifestations of consciousness in its CONDITIONED form. "Tree being" is another, "flower being" is yet another, and so on throughout all of manifestation. "Anger being" is another, "fear being" is another - these as well as other unique human emotions are part of the "package" known as "human being". All of these, however, have a beginning and an end; the "being" part of all of these is the unconditioned form of consciousness. As the tree, flower, human, anger, fear come and go, the "being" remains, and that's what you really are, the being.”

I see what you are saying, but there does seem to be a missing link, at least when it comes to The Power Of Now teaching.

Eckhart says that human beings are a bridge. A bridge between consciousness and the world of form. That Consciousness awakens or realizes Itself, awareness becomes aware of itself, through the human being. That this is the humans purpose on earth- to allow the universe to unfold. And that once humans are Self-realized, they awaken realization in all life-forms. For there is no separation now, only One.

That this is on a different dimension- not the dimension of mind/form. And coming from this dimension- the unchanging and the changing are One. Where the limited and the unlimited are realized as being One. Where the truth that emptiness is form and form is emptiness is realized.

"Human being" is one of the countless manifestations of consciousness in its CONDITIONED form."

What is conditioned is the mind. The unconditioned is Being. When the mind is stilled, the unconditioned comes through. A fully realized human, like Eckhart, Is pure consciousness, the unconditioned, in the form of this man.

"Tree being" is another, "flower being" is yet another, and so on throughout all of manifestation.”

Words are limitations. But it rings more true to say, Being is One and it manifests as Tree, flower and on. Instead of alluding to separate forms of being. There is no tree being, there is Being in the form of tree.

"Anger being" is another, "fear being" is another."

Anger and fear are not Being. These are products of the ego, the sense of separation and identifying with mind, self. Anger and fear are emotions- which are part of mind-identification. Resistance. Time. They are really trapped energy, trapped consciousness.

Our job is to free that trapped energy- for then it becomes freed consciousness. We do this by fully accepting the moment, the now. And there are other ways to. We accept the pain within, allow it, and give it space. This is Being, but the trapped energy is not Being, it is simply trapped energy.

“these as well as other unique human emotions are part of the "package" known as "human being".

They are part of the “package” of identification with mind. They have nothing to do with human Beings. But they have much to do with “people”.

It has been said that “God is hiding in form.” The bridge between the unconditioned and the conditioned sees only One. The words fall away and all that is left is Love.

lucy
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:09 pm

Post by lucy » Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:22 pm

[quote="be-lank"]Hi kiki!

Be-lank said

"Anger and fear are not Being. These are products of the ego, the sense of separation and identifying with mind, self. Anger and fear are emotions- which are part of mind-identification. Resistance. Time. They are really trapped energy, trapped consciousness."

Very interesting questions Be-lank. But do fear, anger and emotions not all arise in that one space called "consciousness"? I thought ET said everything conditioned or not condtioned arose in that space.

be-lank
Posts: 415
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:50 pm

Post by be-lank » Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:38 pm

Hi Lucy!

“But do fear, anger and emotions not all arise in that one space called "consciousness"? I thought ET said everything conditioned or not conditioned arose in that space.”

Okay. Will you tell me how that question came out of what I wrote?
(I feel I am missing something.)

This is just my perception. But my understanding is, yes. And even that there really is nothing but space.

The resistance comes, trapped energy. Eckhart has said that all is energy, so emotion is energy- it is just trapped.

Eckhart uses an example that when we say “No” to what is, we tie ourselves in a knot. And this knot makes it very difficult for consciousness to come through. Anger and fear and negativity are this “no”, this knot. Allowing what is to be- as it is, unties the knot so that Presence can emerge, come through, so that the new consciousness can flower.

If we go deeper, we could say that this knot does not even exist.
But only as mind-identification has made it so. Are they in the same space, the only space, yes. Is it anything more than a knot, a resistance to what is, no.

Is anger, negative emotion, resistance Being? It is the opposite. It is “anti-being” so to speak. But it is allowed to Be within the space that is consciousness, as that is all there is in reality.

For me, the only thing that is really important is realizing who I am.
And in whatever way that works. Clarifying spiritual truth is helpful.
But ultimately it will not take one beyond the mind. For this the portals are the tools.

Eckhart often repeats that the words are just pointers. If a pointer does not ring true, I will point it out. But conceptual truth no longer interests me. Direct experience- that’s interesting!

Felt Oneness with Being- this is direct experience.

Have you had a direct experience? Will share about your portal practices?

Someone could tell us all about a wonderful meal they had, using words and thoughts, and this helps give us an idea of that meal. But of course,
the fulfillment comes in eating that meal! Let's Eat!

Thank-you, Lucy!

Post Reply