Twist on Ramana Maharshi's Self Inquiry

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kiki
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Post by kiki » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:38 pm

lucy, don't get hung up on how words from one person to another differ in describing "it". Rest in the natural state, that's what's important in awakening. When you recognize it in yourself then the variations in how it is expressed make sense - there comes an understanding of what the author of the words is saying. How it is expressed one way may resonate with a certain individual better than how it is expressed by another. Go with what resonates with you.

Speaking from another approach I could say "the tree is" - the word is, is conjugated from the verb "to be" - in other words, "being". I am, you are, he/she/it is - all of these are examples of conjugated forms of the verb "to be" - they all exist, they are - they all are in a state of "being".

We are 'human beings" - we are familiar with the "human" part, and generally totally unfamiliar with the "being" part. We are out of balance, it could be said, because the "being" is consciously missed. Awakening is finding the being that's already here.

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Post by lucy » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:53 pm

Hi Kiki,

Actually I understood what you meant when you were describing "tree beings" flower being". I think it was Be-lank that pointed out that the words didn't quite sit right with her intrepretation. In fact, I find you articulate in a way that I find very helpful.

Kiki if you have a moment to write, I would really be interested in how you see the eastern idea of Karma in an awakened state. I find I am having a really hard time getting past this one hurdle. If there is no-one here and we are not in the "driver's seat" so to speak, what keeps us from being hedonistic (SP?) If there are no consequences for our actions because all of this is not real then what does it matter if the little "me" decides he's going to commit a murder or do charity work?

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Post by kiki » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:40 am

Lucy, sorry for the mix up on my last post. As to your current question: ultimately, (according to nondualism) it matters not what "you" do if there are no karmic consequences since there really isn't a "you". If there is "awakening", however, the liklihood of this happening would be slim (murder, hedonism, etc.) in my opinion. What unfolds unfolds, whether one thinks they are the "doer" or not. This is what the Bhagavagita is about - Lord Krishna teaches Arjuna about awakening/enlighenment, so that Arjuna can do battle with his kinsmen. But I just can't see that an awakened one would suddenly have "deviant" behaviour unfolding through them, but who knows what will happen?

My idea of karma and its companion, reincarnation, has shifted - actually, I don't even consider it anymore. But, looking at it now I see it could be looked at this way: Each time we get caught in identification with the ego sense we are subject to the laws of karma - this is what makes life so difficult. To awaken from that identification and then get caught again is to "reincarnate" once more. In this sense, we reincarnate each day when we wake up from sleep because we have temporarily lost identification while sleeping. To remain in the awakened state, enlighenment, is to break the karmic wheel - perhaps there will be some residual karma playing out in the body in the form of maladies of various sorts. But with awakening the identification is broken while still in the body. If awakening doesn't take place while in the body, it will happen at the moment of physical death.

Some speculate that the mind and ego sense remain after death; because identification is so strong that a sort of mental matrix survives on a more subtle plane, and it is this that results in taking on a new body in another lifetime until the identification is broken entirely when enlightenment is realized. If this is true, that ego and mind are still appearing as modifications of pure unmodified consciousness but of a more subtle sort. There would be an "afterlife" world on a "mental plane".

But, I really don't know "the" answer to your question. Someone once asked his enlightened teacher the same thing, and he answered, "I don't know." His student was surprised and responded, "But you're a buddha, you should know," and the answer came back, "Yes, but I'm not a dead buddha."

There have been people living today who have had visions of Ramana Maharshi, who certainly was enlightened, but who has been dead for more than 50 years. How can this be explained? I'm not certain. Perhaps the mind is so powerful that it can do just about anything and it is that particularized mind that "created" Ramana. The bottom line for me is that it will have to remain a mystery. Maybe some day I'll know different.

k

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Post by lucy » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:45 pm

Kiki, thank you for taking the time to write such a thoughtful response.

From PON, I do get the feeling that ET alludes to reincarnation when he says "Your next life is not going to help you if in this life you don't know who you are". He also mentions that it is only when we die a "conscious" death, that we are able to recognize the portal that ends the cycle of re-birth. This of course is also mentioned in The Tibetan Book of the Dead...I intrepret that once we "awaken" here, we are free from karma because the very nature of "being" is love and pure being has no polarity.

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Post by Sue » Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:23 pm

Hi kiki -
kiki wrote:What unfolds unfolds, whether one thinks they are the "doer" or not. This is what the Bhagavagita is about - Lord Krishna teaches Arjuna about awakening/enlighenment, so that Arjuna can do battle with his kinsmen.
I enjoyed your observation. A friend of mine was knee deep into the Vedanta Society when I was younger, and he lent me a book that had excerpts from the Bhagavagita. I thought they were beautiful, but I didn't get the point. I couldn't understand why Lord Krishna would tell Arjuna "Now fight!" Your observations brought the experience of reading those excerpts back. It makes perfect sense, now. :D

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