Gangaji versus Sanaya Roman

be-lank
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Post by be-lank » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:53 am

"You cannot make yourself stop thinking. You can't make yourself stop thinking, unless presence that arises in you is already of such power that thought simply stops. And then it looks as if you were making yourself stop thinking. But the quickest way to thoughtless awareness is, and it always comes back to that, to surrender to the Now.

Because the whole compulsion to think, has to do with not surrendering to now, to Life. That's why the mental noise, the mind is so active. It's really always trying to get away from Now. Why? To uphold the mind-based sense of self. Accept this moment completely, then, very quickly, a stillness and a peace emerge. No matter what this moment contains."

Eckhart Tolle

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spatialbean
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Post by spatialbean » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:21 am

Sorta, almost. I don't believe you and I are in a position to know whether there is Absolute Truth, or not, or what it is, or isn't etc. And that too is just a perspective.
Ok this is hard for me. I am afraid, but I will say my truth and I may be blasted but if I am then I am.

I've gotten to know Lisa and a few others on the forum and yes, they can speak for me and they can speak for billions of others because what they have experienced is the same as I have experienced, and what those billions of others can experience. It's not a subjective thing. It's not like people sitting around at a pot party saying what being high feels like to them. Or trying to describe the taste of a strawberry. It is a light going on in the darkness, and it an absolute for this lifetime.

What is beyond it, I don't know, there may be more after God, but as Tolle quotes Gangaji saying something like "you will put enlightenment in your pocket and say "ok what's next?" if you are still trapped in ego, always searching for more." But for me and many others who have experienced it, for this lifetime, there is an absolute truth, an end to suffering, and end to confusion and when you experience it absolutely nothing else matters.

For some the search has ended and they can now relax, there is no more to find. The have stood up and looked inside the box they were sitting on and found the gold. The only way to know if I am right or wrong is to find out for yourself, and when you do you will look back and say "why did I protest so much?" and laugh.

Am I awake all the time? No not yet, as exemplified by admitting that I was afraid to make this post. But I know what the other side feels like and looks like and I spend as much time there as I can. Once experienced, it is possible to go back to sleep but why would you when you have felt true liberation?

May all beings find enlightenment.

Love,
Claudia

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Post by phil » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:18 am

spatialbean wrote:Ok this is hard for me. I am afraid, but I will say my truth and I may be blasted but if I am then I am.
Claudia, I'm sorry you find it hard to speak here, and I feel some responsibility for that. In my enthusiasm I sometimes don't take the time to make the distinction between mindstuff warriors and civilians, and that's on me. To the degree that applies, please accept my apology.

You're a sweet person, and that's a very cool thing to be.

None of us can touch your now experience, we can only jump up and down on the ideas you might have about it.

If you should want to say something here, and not have it "blasted" by me, just tell me, and it will be so. OK?

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Post by spatialbean » Sun Jan 29, 2006 7:49 am

Thank you, Phil. :cry:

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Post by Clare » Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:22 pm

DavidK wrote: I'm glad that my post was the instigation for fun numerological romp for you. I have a feeling it doesn't take much though. :wink:
It shows, huh? :)
DavidK wrote: Now I'm beginning to wonder if I should see about hiring you to look into my name. Do I dare...? :shock:
It would be a delight to read for you - should you decide to dare :) Check out my web-site and feel it out. Just to let you know though, I am taking no prisoners -- errr, I mean readings until early March. This is due to being on an intensive training course on teaching English to French people as of next week. But, come March, I am back to doing what I love best. So, if you decide yes, you could venture forth into spring with a 'Life Map' to guide your way!
:)
Clare

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Post by Clare » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:17 pm

I'm not quite sure what is going on here with regard to the feelings of being shot down. But just to say, I believe (believe in) everyone here. I am sure each one of us has had glimpses or even long deep beholdings of the Divine, presence, no mind, or any other rose you want to call it. I bet each one of the people here are pretty far along the evolutionary ladder in terms of spiritual growth just by the very fact that they are choosing to post here in the way that they do. Maybe I take these things for granted, and maybe I shouldn't.

SO! Following the Aloha Spirit method of blessing everything you see in others that you wish for yourself, I'd like to take a Sunday morning to quickly say to those in the crossfire.:

Claudia: I bless your spiritual eloquence and your insight. Your friendliness :) I bless your courage to be you; your deep seated sense of honesty and decency (in the sense of decent sensibilities, not 'being decent' - although, for the record, I simply don't believe those rumours about you and The Big T at The Badda Bing ;) ).

Lisa/Re-Leasa/Sky/Liski: I bless your kind heart, your deep sense of caring and your steadfastness. I bless your sense of fun and play - the multimdimesionality (real word?) of you: on one hand, the wise woman, on the other, the child playing, and how you see those as one, like Rumi does.

Phil: I bless the openess of you - your openheartedness, the humour, the gentleness/ gentlemanliness of you (do I want that for myself? Wellll...let's say, I would like more of that from men :) ). I bless your ability to contain all things with honour and discard nothing. And most of all, I appreciate your own appreciation: of nature, of beauty, of life. How you share it with us here.

And blessings to all!!!
Happy Sunday!! :D
Clare
Oh, and in honour of this new trend in posting a signature that we want everyone to know at the end of each of our posts, I have chosen mine. Spoken originally by that great philosopher and holy fool, Stanley Laurel. Words that have taken me through the very most difficult times, and left me feeling that for all the points - lead or otherwise- there is only one truly worth making.
"The day is full of birds.
Sounds like they're saying words."

Kate Bush - "Aerial"
:)

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Post by be-lank » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:48 pm

And GOD BLESS CLARE!

Who has amazing insights and who's words are always fresh spring water- rippling, flowing and cascading in a lovely peacefulness. And quinching our thirst in such a sweet, natural way. The sanest among us!

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Post by phil » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:09 pm

Thanks for your kind words Clare. I hope I can live up to the label "gentleman". Please allow me to bless your Aloha Spirit, and the flavor of your humor.

Could you please, please, please write us a zen koan about Alfie?? Take your time, whenever you're ready, it's too important a teaching to rush!

The little personality rainstorm we've witnessed will blow through, and then we'll again find ourselves sitting on a blanket under a sunny sky with the question you began this thread with.

What does acceptance mean to us?

It could mean "release all agenda", in the sense of being with now without a change agenda.

Or it could mean "positive manipulation of energy", in the sense of observing and accepting now as a method of transformation.

It could probably mean other things as well.

This variety of ways to look at acceptance seems like now opening up, to swallow the variety of people who are trying to accept it. Now is accepting our variety, perhaps as a teaching of how we should conduct this conversation.

What's it all about.....

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Post by Clare » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:43 pm

Hey Lisa :)

Dunno what to say. I'm good at dishing it out, but not very good at taking it :) Thanks, though. I'm touched.

Talking of touched though - sane? Me? Do you know my pirate moniker is Mad Dog? Y'hear that, Heidi? Me sane! haha!

Now, on to you Phil.

First: Why do you hope to live up to something that has already been seen?

Second: When you've got the Koan of Alfie in your hands, I will give it to you. When you haven't got it, I will take it away.

:shock: :P

OKay then, listen up:
One day a Zen Monk asked an egotistical womaniser, "What's it all about, Alfie?".

"I have no idea, " the egotistical womaniser replied in a clipped cockney accent, "but then again I'm not even Alfie, I'm a very good actor playing the part of an egotistical womaniser called Alfie- and not a lot of people know that."

The Zen monk instantly became enlightened.

:!: :idea: :!:

:)
Signing off till next time....
"The day is full of birds.
Sounds like they're saying words."

Kate Bush - "Aerial"
:)

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Post by be-lank » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:28 pm

"The sanest among us" dear Clare.

You're still plenty plum loco- ha! :lol:

I Loved the Alfie koan! It really "zinged" me at the end.
Unexpected, and laughing.

Thanks, and thanks to Phil for asking for it!

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Post by be-lank » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:40 am

"When you've got the Koan of Alfie in your hands, I will give it to you. When you haven't got it, I will take it away." Ah-ha!

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Post by Clare » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:50 am

To finalise my own journey through this particular avenue of discovery, I finally found what is, for me, the answer. What is ironic is it was one of the first things I ever learned as a 'spiritual adventurer'. Now I've read it again, it seems so obvious. I think I must have got waylaid trying to disappear up my own consciousness of late (note, careful use of euphemism here :) ).

Anyway, here it is: The Answer (or not - depending on your point of view)

An excerpt from Urban Shaman, by Serge Kahili King. Full credit to Kahuna King for this.

Taken from the first principle: The World is What you Think it Is. From the corollary: All Systems are Arbitrary.

"For untold ages humans have sought to find the Ultimate Meaning and the Absolute Truth, something solid and eternal for the lonos (mind self) to cling to. They have tried Mysticism, Religion, Science, Metaphysics, Art and Philosophy in order to make sense of life so they can feel more secure within themselves, and often, to control life in order to feel more secure outside themselves.

Shamans have come up with their own solution to the problem of meaning by a logical extension of the ideas that everything is a dream and the world is what you think it is. If those are accepted as basic assumptions, then obviously all meanings are made up and the Absolute Truth is whatever you decide it is. The meaning of experience depends on your interpretation of it or your decision to accept someone else's interpretation, and the decision to accept a basic assumption is also arbitrary. Therefore, all systems that describe life and its workings are abitrarily made up based on certain decisions to accept certain interpretations of experience. So what really matters is not whether a particular system is true (an arbitrary concept), but rather how well it works for you. [cut]
.....
This is why the seven principles (of Huna) are not presented as dogma, and why they do not have to be defended. If they work for you, use them; if they don't, then use something else. A wise shaman feels free to change systems at will, according to the situation at hand. This corollary also allows a great deal of tolerance for other systems because they aren't seen as antagonistic or threatening, but simply a different point of view"


So, whatever fear it was that drove me out of what I knew and into a great search into the Unknown, I am not sure (well, actualy, I am, but I best not share it here. Long story :) ) But it has lead me back again to Class One on fear - when in fear refer to F.E.A.R: Forget Everything And Remember.


Thanks for holding my hand y'all. Great dancing with you.
:)
Love, Clare
"The day is full of birds.
Sounds like they're saying words."

Kate Bush - "Aerial"
:)

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Post by phil » Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:52 pm

Clare wrote: I think I must have got waylaid trying to disappear up my own consciousness of late (note, careful use of euphemism here :) ).
Noted! Thank you, I think I just found myself. Who knew to look there???

I can hear posters around the world jumping to their keyboards to reply to that... :-)
Clare wrote:Anyway, here it is: The Answer (or not - depending on your point of view)
Works here, sounds like brilliant stuff to me. It seems a wholistic point of view that encompasses both ignorance and knowing.

The tricky bit for me will be "allowing a great deal of tolerance" for systems that don't allow a great deal of tolerance. Working on it!
Clare wrote: A wise shaman feels free to change systems at will, according to the situation at hand.
Love it. Consistency is only necessary if one is trying to maintain authority, and a wise shaman knows that whatever authority they create will eventually become a burden to the student. Krishnamurti wrestled with this constantly in his teachings, "The speaker has no authority!", he'd adamantly proclaim over and over, from his seat on the stage. :-)

It's a tricky business that stumps the best of them.

Does this help? I've been reflecting that there may be an actual physical boundary line between what we KNOW and just theory. Our skulls.

You have a now experience. It's happening inside your mind. You know the experience, which means only, you experienced it.

That knowing seems unchallengable. No one else on earth is in there with you.

You may or may not create a story around your experience. If you do, you become the authority on how you explain your experience to yourself. If your soul looks like an infinitely long spagetti noodle to you, then who are we to say it isn't, we are incapable of having YOUR now experience.

If we develop a theory that our experience must be your experience too, well OK, but that's just a theory. We have no way to test our theory, because we are incapable of entering your mind to look for ourselves.

To put it more simply, it seems the dividing line is between the experience itself, and whatever we think or say about it.

We know the experience. Everything else, well, who knows.

Having added another "The Answer" to the pile, I will now disapear up my own conciousness.

Poof!

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Post by DavidK » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:03 pm

apples vs oranges

which one is right?

-dave

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Post by DavidK » Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:17 pm

agendas, intentions, thoughts, actions
all parts of the dream

nothing wrong with them
as long as we're digging our naps :D

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