Eric Putkonen

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Eric Putkonen

Post by Sighclone » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:54 pm

Website: http://www.awaken2life.org/

Eric –

Thanks again for joining the forum. I have had to sit back a bit and examine my intentions – always a good thing. Why did Eric push my buttons? And, Eric, in form, we all have buttons – consider Maharaj’s style, and Eckhart’s.

Two impulses surface:

(1) I very much care about the attempts to express nondual topics. And we all know that words are part of language which is part of “the world” which is maya and perceived by the mind which exists only as thought, and none of it is real...yada yada... But that is the perspective from the Absolute, which we can entertain intellectually forever. We can, in our little egoic minds, sit in our image of the Absolute and button the top button on our little white shirts and pontificate. Or hide behind a name like Sighclone/Andy or kiki and type what we hope are illuminating phrases into cyberspace.

But some of us declare we are awake and open websites and offer to counsel others. Karen McPhee (anewearth.com) is another example. If we do that, we say, in effect, “I do not speak from an intellectual image of the Absolute, but I reside there, or at least close enough to there to talk about it, and I offer counsel to people.” We may or may not be fully self-realized (by the unavailable perfect universal measure of “level of consciousness.”) But essentially we claim to have some first-hand knowledge of the real experience of awakening.

And so we expose ourselves to a higher standard of inquiry. In that vein, I ask of such people, speaking as one “drop of water in the ocean” to another who chooses to describe the ocean we both comprise: “Is that true?” “Can you be absolutely certain that it is true?” (to borrow from one of our favorites, the dear Byron Katie.)

(2) But to one who has gone ahead and hung out his shingle, I applaud you, as did kiki. Please understand that all these efforts, yours, mine, Maharaj’s, Poonja’s, Wayne Dyer’s, and Adya’s are just mental refinements, just inadequate pointers, with the added palette of color and song of the heart. Poetry (including Maharshi’s) and prose can both evoke the heart. To oversimplify: the Buddhists are accused by the Advaitists of devoting too much energy to caring for others. Others don’t exist – forget them. But quoting Maharshi (from one of your videos, thanks very much): “The heart is the only reality.”

Which takes us back to my second impulse, that you have some ego leaking through your messages. Check out the Parker interview with Eckhart which is part of the master page for this forum at the bottom, regarding gurus who slip back into their ego. Link: http://www.inner-growth.info/power_of_n ... parker.htm . This is the internet. It is populated by people with widely varying levels of knowledge and experience, with varying degrees of awareness of the dreamworld, with varying degrees of Self-awareness. It is only my intuition, but I detect a little bit of “me guru” in the public Eric which impacts your presentation. It is more than just the bold declarations in several of our threads as you enter our forum. I wonder, as I read through your website, does Eric care about me or does he care about Eric? (The testimonials notwithstanding.)

This criticism would never leave my little monkey-mind if you were not so eager to point to your shingle. And it is not in any way meant to say “shut your doors, you impostor.” Remember, your presence on our forum has benefited many already, including me. Thanks for joining! It is simply the expression of one caring soul that monism have the finest possible advocates.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:56 pm

Andy, in the interest of acuracy, eputkonen did not state he was "awakened" he stated "I am enlightened". Is there a difference? In my dictionary there is. Awakened simply means to have dropped the imaginary ego identity in favor of clear conscious presence. Enlightenment however goes far beyond just being awake. It is Absolute awareness, a present multi-dimensional cognizance that sees as clearly in worlds beyond matter as it does in this world of physical form.

Now Eric, if this definition is not your intention (or if it is), please offer some clarity on the subject so there is no misunderstanding. Your answer will certainly set the stage for more enlightening dialog.

WW

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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by heidi » Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:01 pm

Wow, fellas, you're tough! Take it easy on the guy. ;)
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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by Sighclone » Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:01 am

WW -

Quoting from his website:
awakening in 2005
- from the "about Eric" section....

Words, words, words....especially really loaded words like enlightened, awakened, etc... tough area.

Yes, I'd like to know what Eric means - particularly how his life is different now.

heidi -

You think that's tough? Ah, my dear...you should know me better :) ...I can be at least half as tough as you :)

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by freedom » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:55 am

Interesting posts,

but were all skipping willingly down a blind alley here,
no matter, but a lot of minds seem to be working overtime.

I guess its important for you moderators to moderate the authenticity of material that could influence site members.Thats appreciated.

I for one have had a bellyfull of 'false prophets'!

Freedom

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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by James » Sun Sep 07, 2008 5:04 pm

I think this is much ado over nothing. Eric's comments here were fairly consistent with many other opinions that have been expressed on this forum over the months. He was speaking largely from an absolute perspective, which is common in some non dual traditions. If the man feels inclined to present himself as a teacher and share his thoughts on truth with others, that is his prerogative. Who are we to decide if he is awakened/enlightened enough or not, to do so? What standard would we use to judge that?

If he has broken a rule on this forum by soliciting to counsel other members privately, assuming there is such a rule; isn't there a more constructive and tactful way to inform him? Perhaps that rule could be made more obvious, for all to see.

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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:05 pm

Thanks for your input James. As always a valuable contribution. I do hope Eric hasn't left us, I really am curious as to his intent. Claims of enlightenment, and attempts to draw our members to his council, is something to take an honest look at. It's not like he is a long term member with an established base of contributions that offers a clear sense of his expressed nature. He is a new member whose motives are unclear. I would just like to know more.

WW

ps: you're welcome to offer council at any time. That's the result of a proven track record of insightful advise that anyone can review.

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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by James » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:29 pm

Thanks WW, But aside from these forums, I generally avoid giving advice or council to others.

I did visit Eric's web site yesterday, but didn't notice anything unusual that would indicate ulterior motives. I saw no mention of a fee.

Perhaps a blanket policy regarding solicitation would be helpful to avoid future misunderstandings, and the need to screen members.

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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by eputkonen » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:49 pm

I typically make short posts...so this is not something I care to do (long post).

As I recall, I have not solicited to counsel other members privately. I recall the post from the guy in California that said “there any one out there that can bear to listen to another loser?” He just wants someone to talk to...and so I said feel free to email or skype me. That is not soliciting to counsel (like some business deal)...IMO. He reminded me of someone I know and I thought I would lend an ear.

“attempts to draw our members to his council” - this confuses me...what attempts were made?

As for Sighclone, there was no intentional pushing of buttons here. There were just replies to what was said regarding Brahman/Lila and nonduality. The topic itself (Lila/Brahman) must be some of your buttons. I am sure if I was speaking on a different topic (one in which you agreed), you probably would not have had an issue.

As for impulse #1, I speak from realization, understanding, and experience. As for is that true...sure. My realization and understanding matches what I later read by other “enlightened people”...and the few differences I could see clearly why they were different. Unless all the “enlightened” people are wrong as well (IMO - not likely)...I am absolutely certain. I came upon on my own what others in the past have and found the accounts match. Then there is the further proof of how it works in life. Seeking has ceased. Suffering has ceased. There is no feeling of lack or wrongness. Liberated and free.

As for impulse #2, I don’t care about “Eric” at all. There is joy in speaking about these topics and so it happens...otherwise I would not be on boards such as this at all. People ask questions on many topics, some of them receive a response from “Eric” due to a impulse “Eric” does not fully understand. Then there are replies to that post...either additional questions or counter-concepts and so there is another response from “Eric”. What is conveyed is for the person asking or responding...and so if a different person asks/responds - a very different answer may be the result. What is said is spontaneous to the question or response. Each conversation is unique and has a life of its own. Some people like what I say and some people do not...I don’t care either way. Whether or not some understanding is conveyed (either direction) does interest me.

As for Webwanderer, there is only one Enlightenment, not many...and either you are awake to that are you are not (there is only one awakening - which is equivalent to enlightenment). I don’t know where your dictionary comes from by mine says...
1: the act or means of enlightening : the state of being enlightened
2 capitalized : a philosophic movement of the 18th century marked by a rejection of traditional social, religious, and political ideas and an emphasis on rationalism —used with the
3 Buddhism : a final blessed state marked by the absence of desire or suffering

The absence of dukkha and suffering...released from (mental) bondage...that is Enlightenment. “A present multi-dimensional cognizance that sees as clearly in worlds beyond matter as it does in this world of physical form” is rubbish. The worlds beyond matter and the world of physical form are the same maya. Enlightenment does not mean you know any more...you may be aware of the other worlds, but they do not interest you as they don’t really matter.

The human mind always wants to separate enlightenment far away and make some impassable gap or something yet to get to in the future. Take it down from that pedestal. Enlightenment does not make you special, but quite ordinary.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
@EngagedNondual on Twitter
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by heidi » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:15 pm

Eric - We often get new members who come here mainly to promote their own websites and drum up business, which is why we moderators are interested in your motives. I guess I should ask this question: When someone asks for your services, do you charge? Or when you offer to help someone like muckhead, do you require payment? I see you don't mention money, but do have a paypal link. I intuit that you are interested in self-promotion here, along with participating in discussions, and there's nothing wrong with that as long as you aren't primarily promoting your services, such as entering into discussions so that you can steer members to your site. Instead of PMing you I'm writing this publicly so that others will understand why this discussion began as it did in the first place.

Just last week we had a new member that plastered his site all over by opening up old topics and posting to them with his link as part of the discussion. We ended up removing them because the intent was blatant, and because it was clear to us that the guy was doing the cowbird thing, laying his eggs in our nest.

So, back to discussion of Tolle's work and awakening. You are welcome to PM any moderators if you wish to discuss this further. :)
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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by heidi » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:46 pm

And thank you, James for suggesting a new rule. Ever evolving here. This will happen. :)
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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by eputkonen » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:06 pm

Hi Heidi!

There is no need to mention my website on this forum (other than my introduction and my book recommendation). There is a link to my website under my picture...if anyone cares to they can find me there. With other forums without this ability, I often have left my link in my signature (like you do).

I may drum up more visitors to my website and podcast, but it really isn’t business...I do not charge for anything. So in answer to your questions specially, “When someone asks for your services, do you charge? Or when you offer to help someone like muckhead, do you require payment?”...I do not charge and if muckhead contacted me I would not have asked for anything.

Of course, I do have a paypal donation button and if anyone wants to give me money, I would not refuse. There are costs involved to running a site and doing this work...so if someone wants to show support with a donation...fine. To date, no one has...doesn’t really matter though.

I have run a couple experiments...for example, to help offset podcasting and website costs, for a short time I was selling for $10 (including shipping) compilation CDs of my past podcasts, which at that time were not available on my website. No one really seemed interested, so I discontinued offering them. Later, my webhost upped the bandwidth at the same cost so I could just host all previous episodes on my website.

Will I never charge...don’t know. I don’t plan this stuff out.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
@EngagedNondual on Twitter
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by Sighclone » Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:27 pm

Eric -

Still haven't heard a peep about your "experience" of enlightenment. Of course, very few claim that status, ordinary or not. And I think one reason people shrink from that is that they know there is a quality of Being, a spiritual vibration, and a personal bearing which is present in tone of voice and body language (80% of all communication and absent from the internet) which is appreciated at some level by all (the children sitting in awe at Maharshi ,etc.). Moreover I sharply disagree regarding your insistence that either "you is or you ain't". You conflict with many masters in that assertion, and if you have read even half of the books in your bibliography, you would know that. There are kenshos and satoris and growing presence on the path. Did you not have any of those? And if you did, could you please comment on your shift relative, say, to Adya's. And if you are not interested in Adya's, why? Why, because many have read his work in the United States...they may come to sit at your feet and have earnest questions.

James - always the peacemaker - and in that, always right. WW and I are just holding a higher standard to Eric. Please review his entry posts...very unequivocal and authoritative. Yes, perhaps we have given him enough rope to hang himself...as far as I'm concerned, he is still twisting in the wind.

Why have this dialog in public? Absolutely this is the place for that.

I close with a quote from Eckhart, page 162 of the pbk version of PON:
If there isn't an emanation of love and joy, complete presence and openness toward all beings, then it is not enlightenment. Another indicator is how a person behaves in difficulty or challenging situations or when things "go wrong." If your "enlightenement" is egoic self-delusion, then life will soon give you a challenge that will bring out your unconsciousness in whatever form - as fear, anger, defensiveness, judgement, depression, and so on...
But what does he know?

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:55 pm

Eric, thanks for your response.
The absence of dukkha and suffering...released from (mental) bondage...that is Enlightenment. “A present multi-dimensional cognizance that sees as clearly in worlds beyond matter as it does in this world of physical form” is rubbish. The worlds beyond matter and the world of physical form are the same maya. Enlightenment does not mean you know any more...you may be aware of the other worlds, but they do not interest you as they don’t really matter.
I gather from your reference to my definition of enlightenment as "rubbish", that you prefer the terms enlightenment and awakening to be interchangeable. "...there is only one awakening - which is equivalent to enlightenment". Fair enough. At least I know that your concept of enlightenment is different from my own rubbish version.

Still for someone who sees only physical form, it seems a stretch to state with confidence that other dimensions of potential expression do not matter. It seems to me if one were cognizant of such realms, it could add to ones perspective of being in general. I'm not sure it's wise to so easily discount a perception that may well be greater than one solely of physical dimension. And I'm also not sure one could not perceive it as a greater degree of awakening (or enlightenment) to gain direct access to such broader awareness.

You are welcome to your definitions, whether they come from Webster, or something you personally find more uniquely discriptive. But as anyone who discusses subjects of consciousness to any depth knows, differences in ones definition of terms are the cause of most misunderstandings.

So now that I am a bit more clear as to the intent of your claim of enlightenment, I find no significant fault with it. You use it as simply another term for awakening, being an "absence of suffering, and a release from (mental) bondage". That's certainly simple enough.

WW

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Re: Eric Putkonen

Post by heidi » Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:06 am

I'm thinking this is a segue into a new topic. So I'm going to make one.
Who is that I who is thinking? :!: :?: :!:
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